CASA medical fee hike

[tinythom]

Write to Warren Truss and CASA about unfair fees and charges

Holy Hell

I have just (finally) gone through the new CASA charges. To say I am horrified at the extent of this highway robbery is to put it mildly.

Whilst I take the point that for many of us, these fees are a tax deduction, for many MANY 'professional pilots' attempting to get a start in this industry, the fees are another cruel and uneccesary expense. Let us also not forget about the many GA pilots who fly for the pure enjoyment of it who cannot claim these expenses on tax.

Well, for all the good it will do, I am writing to Warren Truss and Bruce Byron (Well CASA anyway - is BB's address [email protected] ??). You will find their details below. One person venting their spleen may not have much of an impact. According to CASA there are approximately 33,000 licenced pilots in Australia. I suggest that Mr Truss, A National Party parliamentarian, may pay more attention if he receives 33000 letters/e-mails/phone calls. Now that the Nationals have gone through this week's trauma with the Liberal Party they might be more sensitive to bad publicity.

I am not particularly good with writing short, succinct letters so maybe someone who is can post a standard letter on pprune so that those of us who are less eloquent can cut and paste the text into a letter or e-mail.

LETS NOT BE APATHETIC ABOUT THIS. A LETTER/E-MAIL WILL TAKE 5 MINS OF YOUR TIME.


The Hon Warren Truss MP

http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/member.asp?id=GT4

Title: Deputy Leader of the Nationals; Minister for Transport and Regional Services.

Party: Nationals

Parliament House Contact

House of Representatives
Parliament House
Canberra ACT 2600

Tel: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Email: [email protected]

Electorate Office Contact

Maryborough Office:
Location:
319 Kent Street
Maryborough Qld 4650

Postal Address:
PO Box 283
Maryborough Qld 4650

Tel: [phone]
Fax: [phone]




CASA Complaints and compliments COMPLIMENTS, YEAH THAT'D BE LIKELY EH...?


if you have a complaint or compliment for CASA there are a number of ways to let us know:
Phone: [phone] Email: [email protected] Fax: [phone] Mail: GPO Box 2005
Canberra ACT 2601 Alternatively, if you would like to speak to someone personally please contact Geoffrey Kimber, Acting Manager Corporate Relations, by phone on 02 6217 1010 or email [email protected]

[Horatio Leafblower]

Contempt for public opinion

Don't bother.

I sent Mr Truss AND my local member (John Fckn Anderson) each a letter, about 1.5 pages each, two weeks ago. A copy to their parliamentary offices and a copy to their electorate office.

Not worthy of a response, obviously.

[chief wiggum]

Not worthy of a response, obviously.

fair go mate, it takes time to phrase a letter nicely which basically says " We don't give a rats a@se about you pilots. Yes, you are getting screwed. We knew about this. We endorse it. we think it is realistic. Please vote for me again"

Basically, they are a bunch of w@nkers who probably are illiterate, so letter writing is not forefront in their list of priorities.

***remove this ridiculous charge, and I shall apologisse to the pollies...in writing***

[pall]

Express Yourself!

tinythom,

Thanks for the prompt. I have emailed Minister Truss and CASA expressing my concerns about the incresed costs of a Medical for Private Pilots.

Yes, I know it can feel like your view is lost in the vast beauracracy, but we do live in a democratic country and we do have the right and responsibility to express our views.

[Captain Starlight]

Pall,

sorry, you're wrong. the new anti sedition laws make it an offence to disagree with your ELECTED gummint.

You no longer have democratic rights, they may run contrary to the spin of the day.

In the interests of national security and your own personal survival,
you should keep quiet and say nothing that contradicts that which our duly elected democratic gummint has decreed,
or face the published consequences.

Democracy is a fundamentally flawed system, autocracy is ultimately more beneficial for the common good.

It's fairly simple, really, just shut up and trust who ever was voted in.

[TLAW]

I too have written to the minister - when, sorry, IF I get a response I shall post it here.

*stands in corner, not holding breath*

[Sunfish]

Sending letters? You are all mad. Furthermore, you are simply reinforcing the perception of CASA and the Minister that GA pilots are a bunch of whiny moronic idiots who deserve no consideration whatsoever.

What do you expect your letters to achieve?

Do you think the Minister is going to order CASA to abandon cost recovery plans?

Do you think that Mr. B is going to write back to you along the lines "Sorry! We made a big mistake messing with all you GA pilots! I'll have the order rescinded in a jiffy, and here is a cheques for the stamp and paper you used for your letter. Now is there anything else that causes you displeasure that you would like me to change?".

Only AOPA thinks this will happen.

Observation 1: GA is last on CASA's priority list. All your whining will do is confirm to CASA and the Minister that it belongs where it is.

Observation 2: Cost recovery is being forced on CASA by the treasury, and nobody ^&cks with Treasury! CASA has to comply.

Observation 3: A full aviation medical is good value at $220 bucks even if you don't fly.

You have a clear choice, either you can continue fighting and whining, kicking and screaming all the time about DOTARS and CASA, like a bunch of overgrown children ar you can grow up.

If you want to act like a grown up, then you should have a stab at understanding CASA's agenda and work with them to try and achieve some win/win outcomes instead of playing silly and pointless games.

[TLAW]

Well, that put me in my place, whiny moronic idiot I am. How dare I exercise step one in my democratic freedoms by writing a letter to my elected representative? Whatever was I thinking?

What I should be doing, of course, is working with CASA to hand over my hard earned $$$ and quit my yap. $135 is great value for a letter printed by a big, expensive computer.

Thanks, Sunfish

[chief wiggum]

Sunfish,

you really are an idiot, aren't you.
IF you don't do ANYTHING, then NOTHING will get done.
IF nothing gets done, but we tried as hard as we can, at least we can say "we did all we could".

It is lame arsed whimps like you who meekly accept getting screwed all the time who land us in the predicament we are in now! How much do YOU think we shoul be paying ?

Surely if YOU can see a better way to do things, then you should SAY so! it is the responsible thing to do.

[tinythom]

Well, we'll all just roll over and take it then shall we?

Thankyou for your helpful and well argued input there Sunfish. Clearly you are a man of immense intellect. It's a wonder that you are still in this industry given your obvious superiority over us unthinking minions.

You prat! I have a vision of four bars, ray-bans, toupee and gout. It's obviously been too long for you to remember your first solo or maybe even your first job eh?

Do you think the Minister is going to order CASA to abandon cost recovery plans?

No I certainly don't. However I believe that the fees are unreasonable and that a reduction of fees is possible with industry pressure.

Observation 3: A full aviation medical is good value at $220 bucks even if you don't fly.

I'm sorry (obviously my whiny moronic logic re-appearing here) but how is that good value? A full aviation medical costs far less than $220. And if you're not flying, why would you bother.


But maybe you're right Sunfish. Maybe there is no hope anymore and I should just allocate a 10% stipend straight into the CASA fighting fund. I mean that way, I will truly understand their agenda and then it really be a win/win outcome eh?

[ANDRE25i]

true

tlaw, youve got it exactly right!

[Lodown]

There doesn't appear to much rational thought in some of the halls of CASA. These fees don't much hurt the commercial pilots with jobs, but they do take a big whack out of the private and unemployed pilot's budget, who can't take the tax deduction.

One of the issues with all this "user pays" process is that as with RPT, flying is cheaper in bulk. 20 years ago when user pays wasn't about, an aircraft would cost $90 an hour to fly regardless of whether you were an airline pilot or a weekend warrior. Nowadays, with the charts, the medicals, landing fees and other extras, it costs considerably more to fly per hour the less hours you fly. CASA needs to address this matter. I'm sure they know it's happening, but they might not be aware of the impact.

[CIA Stooge]

Originally Posted by Sunfish

Observation 2: Cost recovery is being forced on CASA by the treasury, and nobody ^&cks with Treasury! CASA has to comply.

The above may or may not be true but one thing that CASA needs is accountability for the money it spends - I know one business owner who submitted a quotation for work to CASA - he got the job but was advised he could 'up' his quotation by around 50% and he'd still get the job. He did so but was left with a slightly 'gobsmacked' feeling. Added to that he got the distinct impression no other tenders / quotations had been requested. Strange way to do business.....

[Sunfish]

There must be something in the rarified air some of you guys breath.

I am not advocating "giving in" to CASA. In fact the idea of even framing the topic in terms of a win/lose discussion is pathetic.

What I am trying to explain is that YOU ARE ATTEMPTING TO DEAL WITH GOVERNMENT IN THE MOST UNPROFESSIONAL MANNER I HAVE EVER SEEN, AND ONE THAT WILL NOT ONLY FAIL COMPLETELY, BUT GUARANTEE FURTHER FAILURES.

Having got that off my chest, I think its a behavioural issue. You guys are used to dealing with black/white. go/no go decisions that require instant and sure decision making. Government and politics is about ambiguity, shades of grey, "maybe", "perhaps" and furthermore decisions can be revisited because there is often no "right" answer, just a "less worse" answer, furthermore the answers change all the time.

CASA has no choice in the matter. If the treasury has told them to do it, then they must do it, period. If the fee has been set by someone with expereince in management accounting who has captured the fixed, variable direct and indirect components of CASA's cost base then you have to abide by it, period.

For the umpteenth time, the correct way to engage with CASA, or any Government body, is to understand their agenda and the pressures they are under. Then, with an understanding of your own agenda, you look for points of agreement and work towards mutually beneficial outcomes. It takes time, requires compromise and a lot of hard work.

I believe, if the GA industry was smart enough to work with CASA, major cost savings could be achieved, but first you have to have a seat at the table.

Unfortunately there is no organisation representing GA thinking along these lines as the latest asinine "Imagine if there was no AOPA?" ad in the crash comic clearly demonstrates.

You are all just going to continue going backwards and hurting yourselves more and more until enough of you wake up.

[Cinders]

Sunfish,
Being able to yell loudest only makes you the loudest, not the most correct.
I for one will be writing to the Minister, as is my democratic right.
Feel free to stand in your hangar as shout as the masses, it is after all a free country.
C.

[TLAW]

Pot? Kettle?

Sunfish, your post is the most unprofessional I have ever seen. You continually snipe at others for doing something, yet advocate no course of action yourself.

You guarantee we will fail. I also guarantee we will fail, but only if we do nothing.

I fully recognise that CASA are not the driving force behind cost recovery - yet they are the ones who are collecting the fees and publishing the cost structure. Therefore, we have no choice but to direct our protests towards them. Hence, letters to the Minister as a (I'll say it again) FIRST step. You propose working with CASA yet decline to explain further what you mean by this. From where I sit, the only way I can work with CASA is to pay up and shut up.

No one has couched this in terms of all or nothing, win/lose, except yourself. I believe this fee of $130 is the thin end of the wedge and that in subsequent years we will see increases that will make even you choke as you hard over your hard earned.

I believe that if enough response is received from us, the Minister may undertake to review the level of cost recovery to something a bit more reasonable, and more in line with the actual cost of recovery, not some BS figure plucked out of the air by some consultant. If not, then we shall have to take matters further, and elsewhere.

Personally, though, I do not believe Australian pilots have enough spine and cohesion to do much of anything or achieve much of anything at all, your response seems to back that up. I sincerely hope I am wrong on this point.

Having got that off my chest, what have YOU done so far, and what do YOU hope to do in the future on this topic? If the answer is nothing/nothing, then get the hell out of the way.

/end rant.

[Di_Vosh]

Is this too simple?

Or is it me being too simple?

I'm not sure where I read it, but recently there was a quote from BB saying that CASA is mainly interested in regulating the operations that cover the 95% of people who fly (i.e. RPT passengers).

So why doesn't AOPA, etc, lobby the minister and CASA to direct 95% of their cost recovery from that sector?

DIVOSH?

[Sunfish]

TLAW, I have consistently proposed a course of action that is about working with CASA instead of this ongoing confrontational claptrap which I guarantee will get the GA community nowhere. Is that clear enough for you?

Do you know who gets to write the Ministers letter in reply to the complaining one you have supposedly sent? It's usually the poor sod whos job it is to implement the medical charges scheme. the Minister doesn't even usually see it except when he signs it.

All your letter of complaint does is label you, in the eyes of the guys who have to implement this highly unpopular measure, as a whining, complaining pr1ck, making more work for a poor public servant. Please try and understand this. I am not making it up. I have had to write such letters for Ministers (and in one case the Premier) and deal with complainers myself.

Here are a few things that a proper GA representative organisation should do:

1. Organise an annual GA conference. You should be able to get a stack of organisations to sponsor it, including CASA and DOTARS plus the State Government of wherever it is held. If you dont understand what I'm talking about, tell me.

2. Offer to organise focus groups for CASA, DOTARS etc. on any GA aviation issue they wish to study.

I could go on and on. There are so many ways CASA and GA could wrk together if only this confrontational aggressive crap could be done away with.

[TLAW]

And once again Sunfish you advocated ordinary pilots do nothing instead of something. I also notice you dodged that question as to what you have done on this issue.

It is my democratic right to question my elected representatives on decisions policies that I see as being short sighted, unfair, illogical or inept. You see my exercising of that right as being 'mad' and that I am a 'whiny moronic idiot.'

You also label me a 'whining complaining pr1ck' and stand firmly on the side of a 'poor public servant. Good for you, they really need someone to stick up for them

Guess what? I used to work for a government department as well. I also used to have to write reports for the Minister explaining why a member of the public had taken to writing her a letter. I don't know what department you worked for, and I don't really care. I can tell you, though, that the Minister used to take a keen interest in the letters that came across her desk, especially if there were hundreds all the same. She knew that if a satisfactory reply was not received, the opposition minister and media would soon be getting copies.

You seem to be advocating that AOPA or AFAP take the good fight and work with CASA to sorting this out - I heartily agree. Do you think their case is helped or hindered by a deafening silence from the majority of ordinary Australian pilots? Don't bother answering as I already know what your reply will be - whatever suits your argument at the time.

In short, thanks for your input. I shall continue to pursue any avenues available to me while you hurl abuse from the sidelines and presume to tell me what I may or may not do.

[Sunfish]

Tlaw, you are welcome to do what you like, but if you think a handful of letters from GA pilots are going to trump a Cabinet decision about cost recovery by Goverment entities think again.

Futhermore, and without wishing to get into a p1ssing contest. I've worked for Ministers who read stuff and those who didn't. As for the opposition, do you think they would do any different?

For all you potential letter writers out there, let me tell you what happens to your letter when it arrives at the Department (any department).

1. It is opened and logged, there is usually a time limit for the reply. Every letter has to be answered.

2. It is sorted according to whatever protocol the Ministers office has decided. The Minister is highly unlikely to read a letter of complaint, they are extremely busy people, working from a running sheet that starts at 7.00am or earlier each day.

3. The letters of complaint will probably be passed to the Secretary's office who will further sort them and pass them down. The Secretary's office would only deal with extremely serious ones.

4. After about three sortings, your letter is going to arrive on the desk of the person writing the reply who is normally the person responsible for what ever action is being complained about. Please note that if you complain about Mr. X in Brisbane, Mr. X is going to write the Ministers reply and the associated brief explaining the nature of the complaint and what is being done about it

The upshot of this is that the poor b@stards who have to implement the cost recovery program are going to have to deal with your complaints, and I can assure you it is a thankless task, especialy when you know the complaint is stupid with no possibility of resolution, as these costs complaints are.

But wait, there is more. You now have a file, because everything is filed. Now let me tell you a little secret, Public servants do occasionally get their revenge.

Suppose you are a serial complainer, and have caused a few public servants at CASA to miss their lunch a few times over the years. Three years from now your medical comes up for renewal and woe of woes, there is some Cardiac or other anomaly that requires that your medical be reviewed by CASA's experts in Canberra. The experts come back to CASA with an open finding, CASA can renew or not renew at its discretion - and now the decider is the person who has had to answer all your whining complaints over the years. Believe me I've seen it happen.

As for ACTION, start by getting the GA association house in order.