No Asic = No Fly !!!! What a joke !
Re: No Asic = No Fly !!!! What a joke !
I received a letter from casa (im sure many did) saying something along the lines of "due to the overwhelming demand for ASICs, an extension to the deadline will be administered"
hang on a second
Casa know how many freagin pilots there are dont they? Or has there been a extreme influx of expats all at once?
WTF?
Woomera - can you please set up a poll on the topic so we have some evidence to send to DOTARS
I also reiterate what was said above - do you really think an ASIC card will stop a fan belt head terrorist from breaking though a high security, impenetrable GA apron gate? ie like the dungeon doors at archerfield. My 6 month old labrador managed to get past the deterrent on the gate - now he faces up to 6 month imprisonment or a $20,000 fine
No more dog food for him.
hang on a second
Casa know how many freagin pilots there are dont they? Or has there been a extreme influx of expats all at once?
WTF?
Woomera - can you please set up a poll on the topic so we have some evidence to send to DOTARS
I also reiterate what was said above - do you really think an ASIC card will stop a fan belt head terrorist from breaking though a high security, impenetrable GA apron gate? ie like the dungeon doors at archerfield. My 6 month old labrador managed to get past the deterrent on the gate - now he faces up to 6 month imprisonment or a $20,000 fine
No more dog food for him.
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Re: No Asic = No Fly !!!! What a joke !
Dear Mr Gaunty,
Apologies for my typing (spelling). I can't do that stuff properly, truly!
A very sympathetic and tolerant response I note to my post. Good work. I hope you keep it that way and not be biased against those you suggest who should "get real".
Your contacts are no doubt nice people but how effective? Being "good blokes" is what we all should be, kind thoughtful and patient and competent in out job.
BUT................ did the Minister have correct advice? Did the senior management have the competence to accept such a task without complaint?
Where was the real aim identified. The "where are we now" ......."where do we want to be".......and then do the what is required and what is the time frame to do it?
Was that ever addressed . I doubt it
In my own time as a senior exec in a large avaition organisation............the worst information passed up the line is "yes sir". Soon a chasm will open and some will fall into it.
All I am saying is the aim of security is for the country
The policies applied to the legislation, the time scale, details, implementation, management and subsequent legislative threats do nothing to achieve this aim..............a secure aviation indstry.
And the turf war still remains...........CASA is not reponsible for security in avaition. That is left to DOTARS. But where does it start and end for each....At the check-in desk?
But the sad result is what you see in this forum. The industry, certainly the GA and regional areas of industy think it is a joke and i find it very hard not to agree.
So I expect the "baseball bats" will soon be seen on airports to ensure compliance. MMMMMMmmmmmmmm. I wonder if reality will be seen by those who have the reponsibility.
Best wishes.
Gunshy 67
Apologies for my typing (spelling). I can't do that stuff properly, truly!
A very sympathetic and tolerant response I note to my post. Good work. I hope you keep it that way and not be biased against those you suggest who should "get real".
Your contacts are no doubt nice people but how effective? Being "good blokes" is what we all should be, kind thoughtful and patient and competent in out job.
BUT................ did the Minister have correct advice? Did the senior management have the competence to accept such a task without complaint?
Where was the real aim identified. The "where are we now" ......."where do we want to be".......and then do the what is required and what is the time frame to do it?
Was that ever addressed . I doubt it
In my own time as a senior exec in a large avaition organisation............the worst information passed up the line is "yes sir". Soon a chasm will open and some will fall into it.
All I am saying is the aim of security is for the country
The policies applied to the legislation, the time scale, details, implementation, management and subsequent legislative threats do nothing to achieve this aim..............a secure aviation indstry.
And the turf war still remains...........CASA is not reponsible for security in avaition. That is left to DOTARS. But where does it start and end for each....At the check-in desk?
But the sad result is what you see in this forum. The industry, certainly the GA and regional areas of industy think it is a joke and i find it very hard not to agree.
So I expect the "baseball bats" will soon be seen on airports to ensure compliance. MMMMMMmmmmmmmm. I wonder if reality will be seen by those who have the reponsibility.
Best wishes.
Gunshy 67
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Re: No Asic = No Fly !!!! What a joke !
Gaunty.
From my perspective, those policies are aimed directly at me. They directly affect where I can and cannot travel to.
Those policies also imply that I am an evil, dangerous, nasty and untrustworthy person who must be checked at least every two years to see if I have deviated from the true path.
I know that there are evil people in the world who wish to do me grevious harm, but why is the government picking-on farmers, pilots and mariners ? Why not background check all people who operate ground vehicles ?
I fear that our politicians and bureaucrats are herding us towards a "show me your papers, comrade" system where your fate is decided by secret and unaccountable organisations.
The east-German Stasi police-state system eventually failed, but it created misery and grief for millions before it did.
Why is everybody so paranoid about this subject?? and why are you behaving as if the Govt and their anti-terrorist policies are aimed at YOU personally.
Those policies also imply that I am an evil, dangerous, nasty and untrustworthy person who must be checked at least every two years to see if I have deviated from the true path.
I know that there are evil people in the world who wish to do me grevious harm, but why is the government picking-on farmers, pilots and mariners ? Why not background check all people who operate ground vehicles ?
I fear that our politicians and bureaucrats are herding us towards a "show me your papers, comrade" system where your fate is decided by secret and unaccountable organisations.
The east-German Stasi police-state system eventually failed, but it created misery and grief for millions before it did.
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Re: No Asic = No Fly !!!! What a joke !
Q. Sept 11 happened over 5 years ago.........................why the fark do we have to go through this stupid process any longer???!!!!........it is a pointless exercise and nothing more than a scare mongering process. (Saliently edited and paraphrased) 
A. Because manipulating people's fear through forced participation in the illusion of a faceless threat perpetuates belief in the mythology of those whose interest it serves. 
Yes, I know. More and more people have access to politically incorrrect information these days. Some of us even have the impudence to talk about it.
Re: No Asic = No Fly !!!! What a joke !
Not that I like extra hoops to jump through, but aeroplanes are such a convenient way to do a lot of damage, even with no explosives on board, that if you're going to put in any security measures at all, then aiming them at pilots is reasonable, as opposed to ground vehicle drivers etc.
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Re: No Asic = No Fly !!!! What a joke !
Arm out the window Whaaat ??
In march 2005 there were about 13,920,000 road vehicles in Australia, of which about 10,890,000 were passenger vehicles and 2,030,000 were light commercial types. http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/Lookup/06D0E28CD6E66B8ACA2568A900139408
Somewhere around 65,000 to 80,000 new automobiles are sold in Australia every month. http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/[email protected]/1020492cfcd63696ca2568a1002477b5/44f944a6e8b27f32ca256fea0004eaad!OpenDocument
About 85,000 vehicles are stolen every year. http://www.carsafe.com.au
Contrast that with the 12,000 or so Australian registered aircraft. http://www.casa.gov.au/casadata/register/graph.htm
Any deliberate destruction that an aircraft can do, can also be done much more cheaply, conveniently, secretly and destructively by a car or truck, but it's effing difficult (and political suicide) to try and screen all the people who can use cars and trucks, therefore our glorious government picks the easier aviation and maritime targets.
I can only think of one 'convenient' advantage that an aircraft has over a terrestrial vehicle when used to wreak havoc.
In march 2005 there were about 13,920,000 road vehicles in Australia, of which about 10,890,000 were passenger vehicles and 2,030,000 were light commercial types. http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/Lookup/06D0E28CD6E66B8ACA2568A900139408
Somewhere around 65,000 to 80,000 new automobiles are sold in Australia every month. http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/[email protected]/1020492cfcd63696ca2568a1002477b5/44f944a6e8b27f32ca256fea0004eaad!OpenDocument
About 85,000 vehicles are stolen every year. http://www.carsafe.com.au
Contrast that with the 12,000 or so Australian registered aircraft. http://www.casa.gov.au/casadata/register/graph.htm
Any deliberate destruction that an aircraft can do, can also be done much more cheaply, conveniently, secretly and destructively by a car or truck, but it's effing difficult (and political suicide) to try and screen all the people who can use cars and trucks, therefore our glorious government picks the easier aviation and maritime targets.
I can only think of one 'convenient' advantage that an aircraft has over a terrestrial vehicle when used to wreak havoc.
Re: No Asic = No Fly !!!! What a joke !
Just received a letter from CASA telling me that my application was received by the due date (31 Dec) and to keep the letter handy as proof of submission, and hence exemption. Qantas is apparently doing the ASIC distribution for CASA.
Re: No Asic = No Fly !!!! What a joke !
Originally Posted by Arm out the window
Biggles, are you saying they could have done the Sep 11 bizzo with a truck?
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Re: No Asic = No Fly !!!! What a joke !
And certainly less effectively with a C172, C441, Baron, Ect. but this is the sector of industry that will be effected by this absolute rubbish the most.
Typical knee jerk, "seen to be doing something" political, money grubbing, pointless and ineffectual rubbish. The worst the industry has had to deal with to date.
I also wonder why, after 13 years of flying, I have to suddenly prove to the government that I am not a terrorist.
All this user pay rubbish that is going on should work both ways too, I reckon. I'm not the user of the security check, but I am compelled to pay for it.............W%$*#rs.
And, to top it all off, for whatever reasons, I never managed to get all my application rubbish into the system on time. so do I incure the wrath of CASA (because it is their amended regulations that prevent me from flying, by threatening me with monetary penalties) and carry on flying, or close my small aviation business and go onto the dole to support my family, and sell my house that I can't pay the mortgage on because of this sh1t?.
How anyone can honestly believe this crap is going to benifit the general population one iota is almost beyond belief.
Can anyone put forward any sort of believable case for this madness?. Was industry ever consulted on these moves?. Is there any credable evidence....... anywhere, that any terrorist organisation have shown any interest in using light aircraft in australia to further their cause?. Is there any evidence that terrorist organisations have used aircraft in Australia in the past?. there is absolutly no evidence to support any of this crap at all.
The security side of this whole pathetic exercise is unatainable to the degree that makes it workable. Does anyone really believe a terrorist will take the trouble to get a licence, then bluff his way through the security to achieve his objective?. whats to stop a bad guy learning the basics from a mate in say......... west africa, then stepping over the knee high fence at Kalgoorlie, then jumping into any one of the aircraft there and sailing off into the sunset (provided he has a NVFR rating of course) and doing his evil work?.
Its a political exercise to look good to the unknowing sheep.
Typical knee jerk, "seen to be doing something" political, money grubbing, pointless and ineffectual rubbish. The worst the industry has had to deal with to date.
I also wonder why, after 13 years of flying, I have to suddenly prove to the government that I am not a terrorist.
All this user pay rubbish that is going on should work both ways too, I reckon. I'm not the user of the security check, but I am compelled to pay for it.............W%$*#rs.
And, to top it all off, for whatever reasons, I never managed to get all my application rubbish into the system on time. so do I incure the wrath of CASA (because it is their amended regulations that prevent me from flying, by threatening me with monetary penalties) and carry on flying, or close my small aviation business and go onto the dole to support my family, and sell my house that I can't pay the mortgage on because of this sh1t?.
How anyone can honestly believe this crap is going to benifit the general population one iota is almost beyond belief.
Can anyone put forward any sort of believable case for this madness?. Was industry ever consulted on these moves?. Is there any credable evidence....... anywhere, that any terrorist organisation have shown any interest in using light aircraft in australia to further their cause?. Is there any evidence that terrorist organisations have used aircraft in Australia in the past?. there is absolutly no evidence to support any of this crap at all.
The security side of this whole pathetic exercise is unatainable to the degree that makes it workable. Does anyone really believe a terrorist will take the trouble to get a licence, then bluff his way through the security to achieve his objective?. whats to stop a bad guy learning the basics from a mate in say......... west africa, then stepping over the knee high fence at Kalgoorlie, then jumping into any one of the aircraft there and sailing off into the sunset (provided he has a NVFR rating of course) and doing his evil work?.
Its a political exercise to look good to the unknowing sheep.
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Re: No Asic = No Fly !!!! What a joke !
Gaunty,
These bloody measures ARE aimed at me.......ARE an invasion of my farkin' privacy.......ARE a complete and utter waste of time.......ARE NOT based on any real facts (WMDs in Iraq sound familiar,children overboard et al?)...ARE nothing more than a cheap and cynical grab for long term power by a bunch of silly buggers! (silly buggers as in Spike Milligans Hitler, My part in his downfall. quote "here in North Africa we are all playing silly buggers!")
There are no reasons for these measures to be put in place.
I put it to you Gaunty to prove to us why these bloody silly measures are needed without resorting to phrases like "privileged information,secrecy act,need to know so on and so forth. I wait with anticipation.............shiver!
These bloody measures ARE aimed at me.......ARE an invasion of my farkin' privacy.......ARE a complete and utter waste of time.......ARE NOT based on any real facts (WMDs in Iraq sound familiar,children overboard et al?)...ARE nothing more than a cheap and cynical grab for long term power by a bunch of silly buggers! (silly buggers as in Spike Milligans Hitler, My part in his downfall. quote "here in North Africa we are all playing silly buggers!")
There are no reasons for these measures to be put in place.
I put it to you Gaunty to prove to us why these bloody silly measures are needed without resorting to phrases like "privileged information,secrecy act,need to know so on and so forth. I wait with anticipation.............shiver!
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Re: No Asic = No Fly !!!! What a joke !
Actually Gazza, I would be interested in hearing your reply to Bigfella5 as well.
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Re: No Asic = No Fly !!!! What a joke !
Gday again all !!!
Very interesting input here! The majority as i suspected are in agreeance with my post. Well done bigfella5, Gaunty I also wait in anticipation, for your reply. How can you defend this issue and all the fukcing hassel it brings to us as every day pilots. What an absolute load of crap!!
Cheers guys
Fysh
Very interesting input here! The majority as i suspected are in agreeance with my post. Well done bigfella5, Gaunty I also wait in anticipation, for your reply. How can you defend this issue and all the fukcing hassel it brings to us as every day pilots. What an absolute load of crap!!
Cheers guys
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Re: No Asic = No Fly !!!! What a joke !
Arm
I'm astonished that you aren't aware of the many car and truck bombs which have been used since Beirut in the 80's, and continuing on to the present day in Iraq !
Do a Google and you will find many more examples than just the following ;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/wor...00/1338354.stm
http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0001454.html
I'm astonished that you aren't aware of the many car and truck bombs which have been used since Beirut in the 80's, and continuing on to the present day in Iraq !
Do a Google and you will find many more examples than just the following ;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/wor...00/1338354.stm
http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0001454.html
Re: No Asic = No Fly !!!! What a joke !
I am aware of the dangers of car and truck bombs, of course, but I think that the ability of an aircraft to easily get to a sensitive area and do very public damage even without explosives on board puts them in a different category of risk.
Only an opinion.
Only an opinion.
Re: No Asic = No Fly !!!! What a joke !
Gaunty,
You don't work for the Syrius Cybernetics Corporation, do you?? Apologies to Douglas Adams(RIP).
I do take this personally, when various spokesmen/women for the Dept deliver very condescending media grabs, weekly.
I am a part of an Type Club, whose membership numbers around 65 out of a possible 120 aircraft. Less than 1/3 of the fleet have transferred to part 47 regs. Just how many do you think will have complied with the security checks?
Very few, I suspect. ( not for want of urging from me)Our members are about half urban and half rural.
A lot of the members are the sort of fliers who don't go anywhere much, except an annual trip to catch up with friends or a fishing trip up north.
These blokes may as well drop their licences and allow deregistration of their craft, and keep flying out here. They would be unlikely to be caught.
Ps: I suspect a lot of people have someone in the civil or public service. I also have a sister who is a DG.
You don't work for the Syrius Cybernetics Corporation, do you?? Apologies to Douglas Adams(RIP).
I do take this personally, when various spokesmen/women for the Dept deliver very condescending media grabs, weekly.
I am a part of an Type Club, whose membership numbers around 65 out of a possible 120 aircraft. Less than 1/3 of the fleet have transferred to part 47 regs. Just how many do you think will have complied with the security checks?
Very few, I suspect. ( not for want of urging from me)Our members are about half urban and half rural.
A lot of the members are the sort of fliers who don't go anywhere much, except an annual trip to catch up with friends or a fishing trip up north.
These blokes may as well drop their licences and allow deregistration of their craft, and keep flying out here. They would be unlikely to be caught.
Ps: I suspect a lot of people have someone in the civil or public service. I also have a sister who is a DG.
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Re: No Asic = No Fly !!!! What a joke !
Arm out the Window, bud, you have to realize that even if the ASIC checks were done, what's stopping someone changing his/her perspective about the whole world and become suicidal tommorrow getting on a lear jet or an A380 and smashing it into Canberra or any major capital cities.
If I was gonna inflict maximum damage, I'd park a white van fully laden with C4, dynamites and other explosives into several Westfields carpark on a Thursday night or on a Saturday. NO ASIC NEEDED. Will kill at least 3,000 people in one day. Why not screen all the vans coming into fully packed shopping centres then ?
WHAT WE NEED IS MORE FUNDING SO THAT THE AFP CAN GET MORE AGENTS TO LOOK OUT FOR SLEEPER CELLS.
The terrorist were not pilots, THE PILOTS WERE KILLED FIRST REMEMBER ?
So, why are we the target of the checks ?
If I was gonna inflict maximum damage, I'd park a white van fully laden with C4, dynamites and other explosives into several Westfields carpark on a Thursday night or on a Saturday. NO ASIC NEEDED. Will kill at least 3,000 people in one day. Why not screen all the vans coming into fully packed shopping centres then ?
WHAT WE NEED IS MORE FUNDING SO THAT THE AFP CAN GET MORE AGENTS TO LOOK OUT FOR SLEEPER CELLS.
The terrorist were not pilots, THE PILOTS WERE KILLED FIRST REMEMBER ?
So, why are we the target of the checks ?
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Re: No Asic = No Fly !!!! What a joke !
http://www.abc.net.au/news/australia...1/s1547948.htm
Security regime may prompt pilots to seek Senate spots
The Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association is considering standing Senate candidates at the next federal election, as anger grows among regional pilots over increased security checks.
A Government letter has been circulated among members of the association, saying that anyone who flies without first completing new anti-terrorism security clearance checks is committing an offence.
The association's vice-president, Andrew Kerans, believes the measures will ground about 1,500 pilots.
He estimates 30 per cent of his regional members are yet to apply for new security ID cards.
Mr Kerans estimates more than 1,000 regional Queensland pilots are now technically grounded because they have not applied for the ID cards.
"If you think the majority of those will be out bush where aviation is a daily part of life, it could cause a major disturbance in rural Australia," he said.
Federal Transport Department spokeswoman Vicki Dickman says if pilots have not applied for the ID cards they cannot fly.
"No, you should have had your background check well and truly completed by December 31st," she said.
Mr Kerans says the association is now considering fielding federal Senate candidates to draw preferences away from the National party.
Security regime may prompt pilots to seek Senate spots
The Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association is considering standing Senate candidates at the next federal election, as anger grows among regional pilots over increased security checks.
A Government letter has been circulated among members of the association, saying that anyone who flies without first completing new anti-terrorism security clearance checks is committing an offence.
The association's vice-president, Andrew Kerans, believes the measures will ground about 1,500 pilots.
He estimates 30 per cent of his regional members are yet to apply for new security ID cards.
Mr Kerans estimates more than 1,000 regional Queensland pilots are now technically grounded because they have not applied for the ID cards.
"If you think the majority of those will be out bush where aviation is a daily part of life, it could cause a major disturbance in rural Australia," he said.
Federal Transport Department spokeswoman Vicki Dickman says if pilots have not applied for the ID cards they cannot fly.
"No, you should have had your background check well and truly completed by December 31st," she said.
Mr Kerans says the association is now considering fielding federal Senate candidates to draw preferences away from the National party.
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Re: No Asic = No Fly !!!! What a joke !
Originally Posted by Arm out the window
I am aware of the dangers of car and truck bombs, of course, but I think that the ability of an aircraft to easily get to a sensitive area and do very public damage even without explosives on board puts them in a different category of risk.
Only an opinion.
Only an opinion.
Now - compare this to what a van loaded with explosive would do...
Re: No Asic = No Fly !!!! What a joke !
Delta 6, not to sure how easy it would be to get a hold of a van load of C4 (the guys that handle that stuff get background checked for sure 
), But a Van filed with ANFO.... now thats a bit easier to come by.
I don't think the damage caused by any GA aircraft is going to be enough to inflict any major harm, but a 767 caries a LOT of fuel, bit more then a fuel truck me thinks, and we all know what that can do.
BTW the bomb happy world tried once before to level the twin towers with a van full of bang in the underground car park http://www.emporis.com/en/bu/sk/wt/up/cb/
But it didn't have the desired results, the second attempt however using an aircraft....
BTW am still waiting on my ASIC and find that having to pay for it adds salt to the injury.
), But a Van filed with ANFO.... now thats a bit easier to come by.I don't think the damage caused by any GA aircraft is going to be enough to inflict any major harm, but a 767 caries a LOT of fuel, bit more then a fuel truck me thinks, and we all know what that can do.
BTW the bomb happy world tried once before to level the twin towers with a van full of bang in the underground car park http://www.emporis.com/en/bu/sk/wt/up/cb/
But it didn't have the desired results, the second attempt however using an aircraft....
BTW am still waiting on my ASIC and find that having to pay for it adds salt to the injury.