206 Crash into Dam West of Ipswich
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Re: 206 Crash into Dam West of Ipswich
People
I haven't ventured on here before, but just to set the record straight the quote attributed to me re the Ipswich accident and CASA's role was a bit screwy. It may have been the journos fault, it may have been me not making myself clear.
I did not intend to say that CASA had told the ATSB anything. As one person has said that would be improper. But I was trying to say that CASA will act appropriately on any advice that the ATSB might have about any safety issues. We do take the accident investigation process very seriously. Let's hope there are some clear findings that we can use to improve safety in the future.
From all of us at CASA, our sincere condolences and sympathy to the friends, families and victims of this accident.
pg
I haven't ventured on here before, but just to set the record straight the quote attributed to me re the Ipswich accident and CASA's role was a bit screwy. It may have been the journos fault, it may have been me not making myself clear.
I did not intend to say that CASA had told the ATSB anything. As one person has said that would be improper. But I was trying to say that CASA will act appropriately on any advice that the ATSB might have about any safety issues. We do take the accident investigation process very seriously. Let's hope there are some clear findings that we can use to improve safety in the future.
From all of us at CASA, our sincere condolences and sympathy to the friends, families and victims of this accident.
pg
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
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Re: 206 Crash into Dam West of Ipswich
PG,
Well done for coming on here to clarify.
Welcome to the Bear Pit!
Well done for coming on here to clarify.
Welcome to the Bear Pit!
Re: 206 Crash into Dam West of Ipswich
From my experiences CASA have never seemed very interested in acting in relation to the parachute operations in aviation. There are continued fairly obvious breaking of the rules generally in all forms of parachuting that CASA never seem to act on mainly because it's not a 'commercial operation'.
The fact that the 'passengers' onboard are fare paying(they just don't land on the aircraft) the fact that parachute operators are not under the same rules as charter still suprises me to this day. Perhaps if they were some of the dodgy operators would be sorted out though CASA audits that any other commercial operator has to undergo. The whole industry seems to 'self regulate'
Often heard it on the voice of ATC astounded that the parachute a/c has found a 'hole' in an area where everyone else has been in solid IMC.
Very sad loss of life none the less, however after seeing some of these operations it comes as no shock.
The fact that the 'passengers' onboard are fare paying(they just don't land on the aircraft) the fact that parachute operators are not under the same rules as charter still suprises me to this day. Perhaps if they were some of the dodgy operators would be sorted out though CASA audits that any other commercial operator has to undergo. The whole industry seems to 'self regulate'
Often heard it on the voice of ATC astounded that the parachute a/c has found a 'hole' in an area where everyone else has been in solid IMC.
Very sad loss of life none the less, however after seeing some of these operations it comes as no shock.
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Re: 206 Crash into Dam West of Ipswich
picked up a copy of the "telegraph" today and on page 2 there was a photo of the strip and the dam in the distance, (not knowing the area, and assuming that the telegraph has not 'doctored' the photo -age unknown), it seems very unlucky that they could have not gone on the road ahead or at least to one side, if as the report suggests they clipped a wing, then I have only sympathy and condolences to the pilot and deceased as he was probably trying for the road or flats beyond the dam (which has trees.)
Irrespective of the cause of EFATO, I think he was very very unlucky on the forced landing not coming off. (that is if the photo is accurate).
anyone know area met for the region at the time, was it gusty/blowy ?
Poor blokes, prayers from me.
Irrespective of the cause of EFATO, I think he was very very unlucky on the forced landing not coming off. (that is if the photo is accurate).
anyone know area met for the region at the time, was it gusty/blowy ?
Poor blokes, prayers from me.
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Re: 206 Crash into Dam West of Ipswich
350hp Mod: http://www.aeromods.com/
The Super Turbo 350hp Cessna U206, VH-UYB, has a slightly larger fuselage and can take up to six jumpers. It's the fastest C206 in Australia, taking only 14 minutes to 14,000ft thanks to the Aeromods engine.
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Re: 206 Crash into Dam West of Ipswich
I don't know about the wind but the temperature was close to 40C. Gossip has it that the aircraft appeared to stall trying to clear a tree, hit the tree top then crashed into the dam. Terribly bad luck to crash into the only water within hundreds of square Kms.
That engine is prone to vapour lock when very hot and was reported to be making "funny noises" on the takeoff roll. Is it possible that the pilot forgot the electric fuel pump on T/O and turned it on when just airbourne causing momentary flooding - hence the reported puffs of black smoke?
Tragic accident.
That engine is prone to vapour lock when very hot and was reported to be making "funny noises" on the takeoff roll. Is it possible that the pilot forgot the electric fuel pump on T/O and turned it on when just airbourne causing momentary flooding - hence the reported puffs of black smoke?
Tragic accident.
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Re: 206 Crash into Dam West of Ipswich
To all involved an awful event.
When I heard of this accident I heard the head of the Parachute federation reiterate to the media that this was not an parachuting accident but a AVIATION accident.
This is absolutly typical of the US and THEM metality that APF have towards the GA industry.Ridiculous considering that we are elementry to there sport.
These w@#kers want it all!
They dont want to pay their pilots.
They dont want to have it a commercial operation.
They dont want to have to comply with the saftey measures that would be in place if they were a commercial.
If it was a commercial op they would be subject to CASA ramp checks etc...
I know I did it for 500 hrs about and yes I was pushed to fly in non IFR conditions.
Yes I was pushed to fly overwieght.
Yes I was treated like Sh#t
Yes I was paid jack.
Yes they jumped through cloud
Yes they insisted that I fly with the MR due with work
Not to mention the increased maintenence they would need to do.
If anything jump A/C need more regular checks considering the way they get belted.
often ten loads a day and flown by good young pilots but probably not with the same engine managment vigilence that maybe a 1000hr+ pilot might.
So on and so on .
Theres no doubt that there are operators out there that play the game but it aint due to the APF.
Its about bloody time CASA got serious with them and regulated the industry and made them responsible for there own action.
Pls somone take note. I'm sure most jump drivers would agree.It need a lot better system than whats in place.
Finally, I'm not for a second suggesting this was at all the case with this particular outfit.
I'ts simply a general observation from what I've seen.
I'm much further down the aviation track now and it still sh#ts me.
RWS888
When I heard of this accident I heard the head of the Parachute federation reiterate to the media that this was not an parachuting accident but a AVIATION accident.
This is absolutly typical of the US and THEM metality that APF have towards the GA industry.Ridiculous considering that we are elementry to there sport.
These w@#kers want it all!
They dont want to pay their pilots.
They dont want to have it a commercial operation.
They dont want to have to comply with the saftey measures that would be in place if they were a commercial.
If it was a commercial op they would be subject to CASA ramp checks etc...
I know I did it for 500 hrs about and yes I was pushed to fly in non IFR conditions.
Yes I was pushed to fly overwieght.
Yes I was treated like Sh#t
Yes I was paid jack.
Yes they jumped through cloud
Yes they insisted that I fly with the MR due with work
Not to mention the increased maintenence they would need to do.
If anything jump A/C need more regular checks considering the way they get belted.
often ten loads a day and flown by good young pilots but probably not with the same engine managment vigilence that maybe a 1000hr+ pilot might.
So on and so on .
Theres no doubt that there are operators out there that play the game but it aint due to the APF.
Its about bloody time CASA got serious with them and regulated the industry and made them responsible for there own action.
Pls somone take note. I'm sure most jump drivers would agree.It need a lot better system than whats in place.
Finally, I'm not for a second suggesting this was at all the case with this particular outfit.
I'ts simply a general observation from what I've seen.
I'm much further down the aviation track now and it still sh#ts me.
RWS888
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Re: 206 Crash into Dam West of Ipswich
Lots of buck passing on tonights 6 o'clock news. The APF saying the aircraft are under CASA's regulation ,and CASA saying that it's not a commercial operation and therefore not as heavily scrutinised.
Not really surprising that it took the deaths of 5 people to get these 2 groups to start throwing mud at each other.
Not really surprising that it took the deaths of 5 people to get these 2 groups to start throwing mud at each other.
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Re: 206 Crash into Dam West of Ipswich
It is about time that Para Ops are conducted with at very minimum a Senior Pilot, Op's Manual and to the Bloody regulations. ie VFR or IFR, weight and balance and that sort of thing.
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
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Re: 206 Crash into Dam West of Ipswich
Rearwelsteer888,
Mate, you nailed it pretty well and echoed a similar rant I had here on PPRUNE a few years back.
I gave up jump flying after the owner of the aircraft allowed the DZ operator to remove a part of the fuel system, take it to a LAME somewhere for repair then re-fit it himself. All I wanted was for a LAME to come down, inspect and sign off the work but that was all too damn hard.
Mate, you nailed it pretty well and echoed a similar rant I had here on PPRUNE a few years back.
I gave up jump flying after the owner of the aircraft allowed the DZ operator to remove a part of the fuel system, take it to a LAME somewhere for repair then re-fit it himself. All I wanted was for a LAME to come down, inspect and sign off the work but that was all too damn hard.
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Re: 206 Crash into Dam West of Ipswich
RWS888,Seat 1A, Islander Jock,
I also started my flying in the skydiving industry a few years back and can certainly relate to all that RWS888 has put forward. The one thing to this day that still grates to the bone with it all, is why in the hell is it still classed as a private operation. It's about time CASA stood up to the plate and seriously looked at shaking up the skydiving industry instead of treating it as the ugly cousin to the rest of the aviation industry. CASA you are meant to be the safety authority, well why can't you do it across the board over the whole industry and end this self regulatory nonsense, what does the APF hold over you!
I know this has gone off the original topic, but I know it can be a rewarding and enjoyable stepping stone for our upcoming brothers and sisters in this industry, and I just want to see the best safety practices put in place so the up and comers can enjoy ther transition from fresh CPL to first job as they progress and learn some valuable flying experience to take to the next rung on the ladder. Come on CASA, lets stop the Rot!!
My condolences to all concerned, and their familes and friends.
I also started my flying in the skydiving industry a few years back and can certainly relate to all that RWS888 has put forward. The one thing to this day that still grates to the bone with it all, is why in the hell is it still classed as a private operation. It's about time CASA stood up to the plate and seriously looked at shaking up the skydiving industry instead of treating it as the ugly cousin to the rest of the aviation industry. CASA you are meant to be the safety authority, well why can't you do it across the board over the whole industry and end this self regulatory nonsense, what does the APF hold over you!
I know this has gone off the original topic, but I know it can be a rewarding and enjoyable stepping stone for our upcoming brothers and sisters in this industry, and I just want to see the best safety practices put in place so the up and comers can enjoy ther transition from fresh CPL to first job as they progress and learn some valuable flying experience to take to the next rung on the ladder. Come on CASA, lets stop the Rot!!
My condolences to all concerned, and their familes and friends.
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Re: 206 Crash into Dam West of Ipswich
Many professional pilots like myself and others here got a big leg-up from doing meat-bombing. I cannot agree more with the recent posts here. Having flown a medium sized twin-turbine on such operations with 25+ paying customers onboard, it always astounded me that it was considered a PRIVATE operation and all I needed was a PPL (although I did have a CPL). The amount of revenue taken EACH flight was in the $1000's. Take a look at some of the largest skydiving operations around the country - Twin Otters, Skyvans, etc, etc... all being operated "PRIVATELY"? Incredible.
This accident may not necessarily have been avoided if skydive flying was regulated by CASA. Let's not confuse that issue. But skydiving has been much much more than simply club-type flying for many years now. Unlike gliding, for example, the unsuspecting public rocks up and forks out thousands of bucks every weekend. Surely that suggests regulation and oversight somewhat akin to commercial joy-flights.
Perhaps we will see constructive change from this sad event.
This accident may not necessarily have been avoided if skydive flying was regulated by CASA. Let's not confuse that issue. But skydiving has been much much more than simply club-type flying for many years now. Unlike gliding, for example, the unsuspecting public rocks up and forks out thousands of bucks every weekend. Surely that suggests regulation and oversight somewhat akin to commercial joy-flights.
Perhaps we will see constructive change from this sad event.
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Re: 206 Crash into Dam West of Ipswich
It is not too hard to see why the regulator prefers PJE to remain in PVT op's. There is more likely to be an insurance driven safety outcome than a regulatory one. Of course every body knows you can regulate safety by passing a few more laws, adding punitive measures and calling it 'strict liability, can't you.
Then again one could always register your LET410 in that paragon of regulatory oversight, Sierra Leone. I can just imagine the standard of training, licensing & airworthiness oversight that entails.
VT
Then again one could always register your LET410 in that paragon of regulatory oversight, Sierra Leone. I can just imagine the standard of training, licensing & airworthiness oversight that entails.
VT
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Re: 206 Crash into Dam West of Ipswich
Condolences to the Families.
RWS and company, it is very interesting to read how badly you were treated etc etc, but simply put that is your own stupid fault.
It is because of pilot such as yourself ( from your having actually previously accepted these conditions ), that accept such positions under their offered conditions, then bitch and moan about it years later, this is the reason our industry is in the terrible situation regarding pilot conditions.
But of course, it was different for you as you needed, a first job or multi time, now that you have what ever it was you wanted you for some reason feel you have the right judge others.
Quote: "Yes they insisted that I fly with the MR due with work", What, did they hold a gun at your head ?
Again "Yes I was pushed to fly overwieght", you know your obligations regarding the law, Why did YOU break the law ?.
This mentaility comes up over and over, " I did what i did to get ahead, screw you guys".
You are not my equal.
RWS and company, it is very interesting to read how badly you were treated etc etc, but simply put that is your own stupid fault.
It is because of pilot such as yourself ( from your having actually previously accepted these conditions ), that accept such positions under their offered conditions, then bitch and moan about it years later, this is the reason our industry is in the terrible situation regarding pilot conditions.
But of course, it was different for you as you needed, a first job or multi time, now that you have what ever it was you wanted you for some reason feel you have the right judge others.
Quote: "Yes they insisted that I fly with the MR due with work", What, did they hold a gun at your head ?
Again "Yes I was pushed to fly overwieght", you know your obligations regarding the law, Why did YOU break the law ?.
This mentaility comes up over and over, " I did what i did to get ahead, screw you guys".
You are not my equal.
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Re: 206 Crash into Dam West of Ipswich
Gday all,
A sad day to be sure.
I was pleased to here that at least one person I knew on board survived.
I have stayed clear of this thread, until now, to avoid having a rant.
LHRT, I am pleased you have injected some truth and realism into the thread in regard to the last few posts.
Read again LHRT's post if you are about to cr@p on about your poor underpriveleged skydiving flying days!
The choices we make in life are only our own.
Cheers,
Con
Ex Diver Driver( and loved avery minute of it!!)
A sad day to be sure.
I was pleased to here that at least one person I knew on board survived.
I have stayed clear of this thread, until now, to avoid having a rant.
LHRT, I am pleased you have injected some truth and realism into the thread in regard to the last few posts.
Read again LHRT's post if you are about to cr@p on about your poor underpriveleged skydiving flying days!
The choices we make in life are only our own.
Cheers,
Con
Ex Diver Driver( and loved avery minute of it!!)
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Re: 206 Crash into Dam West of Ipswich
Lefthanded Rock Thrower....Well said!
Many years ago I flew for a very professional skydiving outfit based out of YCDR. I was never pushed to do anything outside of the law and never saw the operator risking the lives of his staff or customers. Yes the money wasn't great but the flying sure was, 14000 over Noosa on a clear September day was just fantastic. Thanks to that experience and many more hours gained since, I have finally made it into a jet.
I am sure there are operators that push there pilots beyond the limits, in fact I have worked fo a few! This is easy to do to someone with little experience and often maturity and who is desperate to hold onto that hard to get job.There are many respectable companies as well... What young pilots have to understand is that they are responsibile for the flight and if they have any doubt that the flight can not be conducted safely then the only option is to say no. Will this get them sacked? Possibily, but at least you can hold your head up high knowing you have not risked the lives of your collegues. Should you then report the operator? Yes, if this is the last option or the operator is just plain dangerous.
As for CASA....So many pilots are very quick at pointing the finger in their direction. I would like to say that there are alot of great blokes in CASA with invaluable experience. I have had the opportunity to absorb some of their knowledge & beleive that I am a much safer pilot for it. Accidents happen whether it is human error, mechanical or just plain old enviromental factors. I have seen very professional outfits that have operated for many years under the watchful eyes of CASA still plow aircraft into the ground, luckily no fatals. Who do we blame for the 72 deaths on the road over the Christmas break?
My condolences to the families who lost their loved ones and best wishes to those who are still to get better. Let's hope that once the investigation is complete we can all learn from this tragic event and reduce the chances of it happening again in the future, that way at least these lives lost were not in vain.
Many years ago I flew for a very professional skydiving outfit based out of YCDR. I was never pushed to do anything outside of the law and never saw the operator risking the lives of his staff or customers. Yes the money wasn't great but the flying sure was, 14000 over Noosa on a clear September day was just fantastic. Thanks to that experience and many more hours gained since, I have finally made it into a jet.
I am sure there are operators that push there pilots beyond the limits, in fact I have worked fo a few! This is easy to do to someone with little experience and often maturity and who is desperate to hold onto that hard to get job.There are many respectable companies as well... What young pilots have to understand is that they are responsibile for the flight and if they have any doubt that the flight can not be conducted safely then the only option is to say no. Will this get them sacked? Possibily, but at least you can hold your head up high knowing you have not risked the lives of your collegues. Should you then report the operator? Yes, if this is the last option or the operator is just plain dangerous.
As for CASA....So many pilots are very quick at pointing the finger in their direction. I would like to say that there are alot of great blokes in CASA with invaluable experience. I have had the opportunity to absorb some of their knowledge & beleive that I am a much safer pilot for it. Accidents happen whether it is human error, mechanical or just plain old enviromental factors. I have seen very professional outfits that have operated for many years under the watchful eyes of CASA still plow aircraft into the ground, luckily no fatals. Who do we blame for the 72 deaths on the road over the Christmas break?
My condolences to the families who lost their loved ones and best wishes to those who are still to get better. Let's hope that once the investigation is complete we can all learn from this tragic event and reduce the chances of it happening again in the future, that way at least these lives lost were not in vain.