Does QANTAS really have F/O assistant Fleet manager(s)?
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Does QANTAS really have F/O assistant Fleet manager(s)?
It must have been a misprint, mustn't it?
A short lived thread about an F/O whacking a Captain with a glass, stated that the 27 year old First Officer was "assistant Fleet manager".
The likelihood of that seems zero, however who knows what is going on these days, in airlines where non-aviation managment have the final word in who slots in where.
I assume the correct wording should have been "assistant TO the Fleet manager", as in a secretarial/filing files type position, more in line with the young lad's (in)experience.
Correct or not?
A short lived thread about an F/O whacking a Captain with a glass, stated that the 27 year old First Officer was "assistant Fleet manager".
The likelihood of that seems zero, however who knows what is going on these days, in airlines where non-aviation managment have the final word in who slots in where.
I assume the correct wording should have been "assistant TO the Fleet manager", as in a secretarial/filing files type position, more in line with the young lad's (in)experience.
Correct or not?
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Pilot Flies Into Rage Over Taunts
From the Daily Telegraph:
23dec05
To the public he was a respected pilot, but to his colleagues he was better known as "Mini Me" and "Trevor's b....".
It was this long-running alleged harassment that fuelled a "spur of the moment" fit of rage in which Qantas pilot Jarrod Seen hit captain Marc Alphandary in the eye with a glass at a colleague's party.
First Officer Seen, 27, of Zetland, yesterday pleaded guilty in the Downing Centre Local Court to assaulting Mr Alphandary in the early hours of June 12, at Darling Harbour.
He escaped a jail term and conviction, with Magistrate Tim Keady instead placing him on a 12-month good behaviour bond.
Seen told the court he and Mr Alphandary fell out after he was promoted to assistant senior fleet manager by Trevor Mcguire, the senior fleet manager.
He said Mr Alphandary started to call him "Trevor's b....", "mini Trevor" and "Mini Me".
"This would happen every time I saw him in the crew room," he said.
The two men met again at the function 18 months later. It was there Seen said two female flight attendants came to him in tears, claiming Mr Alphandary had called them "back-stabbing b....s".
Seen, who had three drinks before the party then five schooners and a scotch and Coke, said he approached Mr Alphandary and asked if he enjoyed picking on girls.
He then grabbed Mr Alphandary's right shoulder, took a glass from his hand and swung at him, the base of the tumbler hitting him just above his left eye, leaving a 4cm cut requiring stitches.
In court yesterday, Mr Alphandary strenuously denied bullying and harassing Seen.
He admitted he may have called him those names but had never done so maliciously.
The magistrate said built-up resentment and alcohol did not excuse Seen's behaviour but it did explain it.
From the Daily Telegraph:
23dec05
To the public he was a respected pilot, but to his colleagues he was better known as "Mini Me" and "Trevor's b....".
It was this long-running alleged harassment that fuelled a "spur of the moment" fit of rage in which Qantas pilot Jarrod Seen hit captain Marc Alphandary in the eye with a glass at a colleague's party.
First Officer Seen, 27, of Zetland, yesterday pleaded guilty in the Downing Centre Local Court to assaulting Mr Alphandary in the early hours of June 12, at Darling Harbour.
He escaped a jail term and conviction, with Magistrate Tim Keady instead placing him on a 12-month good behaviour bond.
Seen told the court he and Mr Alphandary fell out after he was promoted to assistant senior fleet manager by Trevor Mcguire, the senior fleet manager.
He said Mr Alphandary started to call him "Trevor's b....", "mini Trevor" and "Mini Me".
"This would happen every time I saw him in the crew room," he said.
The two men met again at the function 18 months later. It was there Seen said two female flight attendants came to him in tears, claiming Mr Alphandary had called them "back-stabbing b....s".
Seen, who had three drinks before the party then five schooners and a scotch and Coke, said he approached Mr Alphandary and asked if he enjoyed picking on girls.
He then grabbed Mr Alphandary's right shoulder, took a glass from his hand and swung at him, the base of the tumbler hitting him just above his left eye, leaving a 4cm cut requiring stitches.
In court yesterday, Mr Alphandary strenuously denied bullying and harassing Seen.
He admitted he may have called him those names but had never done so maliciously.
The magistrate said built-up resentment and alcohol did not excuse Seen's behaviour but it did explain it.
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Yes they have some F/O's doing less important management tasks. Usually crap no one else wants to do. There is always a helpful F/O with his hand up saying" pick me, pick me."
Interesting to speculate on the young lads future now.
Can he hold/renew an ASIC card with a conviction for violence?
Do management view this as a sackable offence? They hounded one bloke out of the airline because he got pissed off with over zealous security drones at Brisbane airport. How will they view this dudes actions and the bad publicity for their image.
Or is he really a sweet boy who can be forgiven and make Chief Pilot one day. Watch this space.
Interesting to speculate on the young lads future now.
Can he hold/renew an ASIC card with a conviction for violence?
Do management view this as a sackable offence? They hounded one bloke out of the airline because he got pissed off with over zealous security drones at Brisbane airport. How will they view this dudes actions and the bad publicity for their image.
Or is he really a sweet boy who can be forgiven and make Chief Pilot one day. Watch this space.
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Your right.
Isn't it interesting that a stroke of a pen by the Magistrate means the difference between being suitable to hold an ASIC, and not being suitable. Apparantly the reason you are in front of the Beak in the first place has nothing to do with your suitability.
Isn't it interesting that a stroke of a pen by the Magistrate means the difference between being suitable to hold an ASIC, and not being suitable. Apparantly the reason you are in front of the Beak in the first place has nothing to do with your suitability.
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Throwing peanuts at a peanut, is one thing.
Having a swing, with your fists is another.
But gouging a guy's face with a glass - esp in the area of the eyes - is a sure sign that the QF selection process failed to weed this idiot out.
He attempted to end the said Captain's career in a vicious attack that would have to have been pre-meditated, imo.
I can't see QANTAS brushing this one under the table.
Having a swing, with your fists is another.
But gouging a guy's face with a glass - esp in the area of the eyes - is a sure sign that the QF selection process failed to weed this idiot out.
He attempted to end the said Captain's career in a vicious attack that would have to have been pre-meditated, imo.
I can't see QANTAS brushing this one under the table.
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Notwithstanding the punch thrown, I don't see anywhere that the glass was smashed first before taking that swing, nor do I see anywhere a remark about gouging.
It's a bit rough to read anything more malicious into the event.
The continued harassment is similar to what is more common these days in domestic situations - battered wives syndrome, it isn't an excuse but can certainly be offered in mitigation.
It's a bit rough to read anything more malicious into the event.
The continued harassment is similar to what is more common these days in domestic situations - battered wives syndrome, it isn't an excuse but can certainly be offered in mitigation.
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OED defintion of "gouge" - Concave-bladed instrument used in carpentry, sculpture, and surgery. Cut with gouge; force out eye.
The intent to target an eye appears to have been shown by the proximity to which the injury occurred.
I also didn't see where the glass was first smashed, however it is common knowledge that the impact of (thin) glass with most hard surfaces will be sufficient to cause the glass to shatter, break, or crack.
If the F/O had considered he was being harassed, there are various company, and legal, avenues he could have explored and utilised.
Instead, he decided to take the matter into his own hands.
I don't feel the "battered wives" analogy is a very good one, Voice. Perhaps psychological intimidation by a superior might have been better.
Anyway, this guy lost it, and as a crew member of a public transport vehicle, he has now cast doubt upon his ability to be able to work in harmony, and safely, in that type of environ, imo.
The intent to target an eye appears to have been shown by the proximity to which the injury occurred.
I also didn't see where the glass was first smashed, however it is common knowledge that the impact of (thin) glass with most hard surfaces will be sufficient to cause the glass to shatter, break, or crack.
If the F/O had considered he was being harassed, there are various company, and legal, avenues he could have explored and utilised.
Instead, he decided to take the matter into his own hands.
I don't feel the "battered wives" analogy is a very good one, Voice. Perhaps psychological intimidation by a superior might have been better.
Anyway, this guy lost it, and as a crew member of a public transport vehicle, he has now cast doubt upon his ability to be able to work in harmony, and safely, in that type of environ, imo.
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And while we are talking about peanuts.... I'm waiting to hear from the peanuts in the peanut gallery who were so eager to hang the "VB bikies" for a much lesser crime!
Come on peanuts! Lets see you try and defend someone that almost blinded another man!
While we are at it. Let's hear another chorus of the "cream of the crop" selection process at QF.
bbbbbzzzzzbbbbb..disgusting!..zzzbzbzzzzzzzz
Come on peanuts! Lets see you try and defend someone that almost blinded another man!
While we are at it. Let's hear another chorus of the "cream of the crop" selection process at QF.
bbbbbzzzzzbbbbb..disgusting!..zzzbzbzzzzzzzz
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Most of the companies I've worked for had it in writing, either in the contract or the Ops manual, take a swing at anyone in the company and you are out, "conduct unbecoming", "bringing the company into disrepute", stuff like that.
, funbags is closer 
.
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Is the system of First officers being appointed to this type of position something that has been instigated in the past 10 - 15 years?
From my experience in airlines, Fleet Managers, and Assistant Fleet Managers were always Captains.
I suspect the placing of F/O's into positions formerly held by Captains, is an "innovation" of the New Age management (previously known as the HR department), and designed to undermine the authority of the position of Captain in the eyes of the other employees.
Well, it's worked - and this incident is a product of the H. R. dep't.
From my experience in airlines, Fleet Managers, and Assistant Fleet Managers were always Captains.
I suspect the placing of F/O's into positions formerly held by Captains, is an "innovation" of the New Age management (previously known as the HR department), and designed to undermine the authority of the position of Captain in the eyes of the other employees.
Well, it's worked - and this incident is a product of the H. R. dep't.
Assistant TO the Fleet Manager is spot on the money.
These are certainly not positions of power.
No captain would waste his time sending faxes and making coffee.
Very remininscent of BBC's The Office
These are certainly not positions of power.
No captain would waste his time sending faxes and making coffee.
Very remininscent of BBC's The Office
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Hiya Ronnie, it could have been an argument about the matter of intention and that is what the prosecution would have had to have proved, and it appears that it wasn't.
There is a difference between something that occurs spur of the moment, and something that occurs as a result of thinking abut it and then doing it. This difference has ramifications as to the extent/depth of charges that can be brought before the court.
In my experience, the sentence delivered seems to reflect the weight given by the magistrate to the level of suffered harassment offered in defence, and a lack of proven intent to cause a grievous injury.
I mentioned BWS - the psychological impairment inflected in either scenario is similar, IMO, hence the analogy.
There is a difference between something that occurs spur of the moment, and something that occurs as a result of thinking abut it and then doing it. This difference has ramifications as to the extent/depth of charges that can be brought before the court.
In my experience, the sentence delivered seems to reflect the weight given by the magistrate to the level of suffered harassment offered in defence, and a lack of proven intent to cause a grievous injury.
I mentioned BWS - the psychological impairment inflected in either scenario is similar, IMO, hence the analogy.
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The perpetrator pleaded guilty. Consequently, the victim WAS NOT given the opportunity to fully rebut the reported ALLEGATIONS of harassment.
Typical tabloid journalism cr@p - make the victim out to be the bad boy.
Grrowler, correct. I was gonna say Yes Minister
Typical tabloid journalism cr@p - make the victim out to be the bad boy.
Grrowler, correct. I was gonna say Yes Minister
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Seeing that he pleaded guilty I assume the victim can now proceed to sue the sh*t out of him in a civil court for all sorts of damages.
Scarred face, nightmares etc etc. I hope the victim takes everything he owns off him.
Re Magistrates I've been told they operate from an "ops manual." Any sentences outside this suggested range will quickly lead to an appeal to a higher court. Hence first offenders usually get a smack over the wrist with a wet bus ticket.
Scarred face, nightmares etc etc. I hope the victim takes everything he owns off him.
Re Magistrates I've been told they operate from an "ops manual." Any sentences outside this suggested range will quickly lead to an appeal to a higher court. Hence first offenders usually get a smack over the wrist with a wet bus ticket.
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This clown shouldn't even have got through the psych tests. That is, if they were worth more than a pinch of snot in the first place.
Meanwhile, maybe he needs to be put back doing what he does best... flying from the RHS. Or maybe the back seat as a punishment for losing his cool.
The other tw@t should be busted down to DASH8s for two years although that's not really fair to the DASH8 guys.
These bin-emptying pole-climbers never seem to get much respect. It's the old story, requesting the job is a good reason not to give it to them.
Seems there's a lot of ambitious, empire-building pole-climbers in the Rat.
Meanwhile, maybe he needs to be put back doing what he does best... flying from the RHS. Or maybe the back seat as a punishment for losing his cool.
The other tw@t should be busted down to DASH8s for two years although that's not really fair to the DASH8 guys.
These bin-emptying pole-climbers never seem to get much respect. It's the old story, requesting the job is a good reason not to give it to them.
Seems there's a lot of ambitious, empire-building pole-climbers in the Rat.