Australian Pilots
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Australian Pilots
Can any Aussie pilots out there give me some info on starting a career as an airline pilot. I know the industry is hard to get into. Money is not an issue.. Where do I start?
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Im completely from scratch.
Gotta start on a single engine piston.
Only ever flown a 737 in a simulator ( a real one and not a game).
How many hours would i need to get a job with an airline?
How much $$$ am i looking at?
Gotta start on a single engine piston.
Only ever flown a 737 in a simulator ( a real one and not a game).
How many hours would i need to get a job with an airline?
How much $$$ am i looking at?
Join Date: Nov 2005
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If you really want a serious answer, it would cost nearly $100 big ones for all the qualifications nowadays, and even after forking out the big bucks the chances of a good job are still years away, potentially never. For every 100 people who get a licence in Aust, only a small percentage even get a full time job, let alone into a decent paying one.
Say you do survive out in the bush, PNG, whatever early on, you will have earnt absolutely nothing, and you may even get lucky and get into Jetstar or Virgin, or any other operator who is quickly starting to follow suit and charge you for your initial training. So fork out another $30 grand for the endorsement, and about 6 weeeks of unpaid work, pay for your own hotel accomodation and meals while doing the course, no super, the list goes on ...., and you will finally be owed well over $40 grand to just get the endorsement and a foot in the door. And did I mention the wage?
So all up, you have potentially spent close to $150 big ones (when you look at the relocation, travelling to interviews, qualifications, paying for training etc.) and have had a few fun years earning nothing but good times (and friends).
If you are lucky, you may have finally cracked it for Virgin or Jetstar and you will earn less than most train drivers, bus drivers, plumbers, tradespeople, university graduates etc. In years gone by, it was an extremely well paying profession (an airline Captain was close to a senior judge in remuneration), but those days are gone. I would guess Qantas will have folded into Jetstar and back with all wages and conditions at the lower rate. And every day that goes by, there is one more group of people who could not get the job any other way than by offering to do it for less money. The way things are headed, we will all soon be paying to fly the planes.
Maybe you could get into Cathay (they don't seem to have the same problems as we do here) but you have to be prepared to live in Hong Kong for life.
By the way, a guy down the street works for Australia post in the mail sorting centre (real dead beat drongo type) and he makes more money for less work than a lot of F/O's in jets in Australia make.
Say you do survive out in the bush, PNG, whatever early on, you will have earnt absolutely nothing, and you may even get lucky and get into Jetstar or Virgin, or any other operator who is quickly starting to follow suit and charge you for your initial training. So fork out another $30 grand for the endorsement, and about 6 weeeks of unpaid work, pay for your own hotel accomodation and meals while doing the course, no super, the list goes on ...., and you will finally be owed well over $40 grand to just get the endorsement and a foot in the door. And did I mention the wage?
So all up, you have potentially spent close to $150 big ones (when you look at the relocation, travelling to interviews, qualifications, paying for training etc.) and have had a few fun years earning nothing but good times (and friends).
If you are lucky, you may have finally cracked it for Virgin or Jetstar and you will earn less than most train drivers, bus drivers, plumbers, tradespeople, university graduates etc. In years gone by, it was an extremely well paying profession (an airline Captain was close to a senior judge in remuneration), but those days are gone. I would guess Qantas will have folded into Jetstar and back with all wages and conditions at the lower rate. And every day that goes by, there is one more group of people who could not get the job any other way than by offering to do it for less money. The way things are headed, we will all soon be paying to fly the planes.
Maybe you could get into Cathay (they don't seem to have the same problems as we do here) but you have to be prepared to live in Hong Kong for life.
By the way, a guy down the street works for Australia post in the mail sorting centre (real dead beat drongo type) and he makes more money for less work than a lot of F/O's in jets in Australia make.
Go into mining instead, $100 000 salaries are quite common and you have strong unions to defend your conditions. Major shortages of personnel at the moment too. What Bazzamundi says is dead right. The length of time to crack the big one IF you get lucky is such that had you worked on a mine from day one, you would probably be close to being able to retire.
In flying you will be looking at 10 years to command an airline jet, if everything goes right. BIG financial outlays and years of no or low pay on the way. A salary of $130 000 at the end of it if you're lucky. Fail a medical/checkride along the way and kiss it all good bye.
Airline flying used to be a secure, well paid career. Not any more.
In flying you will be looking at 10 years to command an airline jet, if everything goes right. BIG financial outlays and years of no or low pay on the way. A salary of $130 000 at the end of it if you're lucky. Fail a medical/checkride along the way and kiss it all good bye.
Airline flying used to be a secure, well paid career. Not any more.
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Cmon Guys - I saw John Howard and Kevin Andrews on TV, and they said under the new IR laws it is a workers paradise and we can negotiate a better deal because of the labour shortages?
Your not telling me they were fibbing are you?
This whole IR thing wasn't just a ruse to make GOD richer was it?
What about all those TV ads I paid for with all the shiny happy people smiling?
Your not telling me they were fibbing are you?
This whole IR thing wasn't just a ruse to make GOD richer was it?
What about all those TV ads I paid for with all the shiny happy people smiling?
Join Date: Sep 2005
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We're all really left wing, pinko, communists, disguised as pilots, P-A-F.
We used to be right wing, Liberal-voting, silvertails, when we were all united under the AFAP banner, but we've seen the light.
Isn't that right, comrades
(Life in the "sheltered workshop" treating you ok, P-A-F? Your obsession with professional pilots working in the real world, keeps you glued to the keyboards, doesn't it.)
We used to be right wing, Liberal-voting, silvertails, when we were all united under the AFAP banner, but we've seen the light.
Isn't that right, comrades
(Life in the "sheltered workshop" treating you ok, P-A-F? Your obsession with professional pilots working in the real world, keeps you glued to the keyboards, doesn't it.)
Try for a QF cadetship. If unsuccesfull:
Marry an American or UK citizen (pay if you have to, if money is no object, get one thats good looking, will do all your washing cooking etc and that already has a warm, clean house for you)
Then get your FAA/JAA CPL and buy an endorsement and hours on your desired jet aircraft. Preferably through some scheme that may have a hint of a job offer at the end.
Now, thats if money is no object. On the other hand...
Marry an American or UK citizen (pay if you have to, if money is no object, get one thats good looking, will do all your washing cooking etc and that already has a warm, clean house for you)
Then get your FAA/JAA CPL and buy an endorsement and hours on your desired jet aircraft. Preferably through some scheme that may have a hint of a job offer at the end.
Now, thats if money is no object. On the other hand...
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Pass a frozo
Just because people are sick of being used as a door mat and seeing their conditions eroded, why does that make us union loving left wing types. I do believe in Unions and what they stand for but I also understand that they have their limitations.
but one should always remember
Together we stand, Divided we beg.
Just because people are sick of being used as a door mat and seeing their conditions eroded, why does that make us union loving left wing types. I do believe in Unions and what they stand for but I also understand that they have their limitations.
but one should always remember
Together we stand, Divided we beg.
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Life in the "sheltered workshop" treating you ok,
If it's such a sheltered workshop / easy life why aren't you applying??
PAF
What would your family receive if you were shot down and KIA in your lumbering transport aircraft in Iraq say?
This comment is in all due respect, with a background reference that I personally protested to my MHR about the woeful initial treatment of the widow of the SAS fatality in Afganistan.
Professional civilian pilot groups have negotiated for very favourable loss of health schemes. Again, with all due respect, I could fall of my roof and receive far more than a service pilots' family who dies fighting or training to protect his country. Is this an example of "your" socialism?
And as Hi'er alludes to, check out former members of your community and note their earnings. I work with dozens, they don't want their jobs back, so I won't apply either!
What would your family receive if you were shot down and KIA in your lumbering transport aircraft in Iraq say?
This comment is in all due respect, with a background reference that I personally protested to my MHR about the woeful initial treatment of the widow of the SAS fatality in Afganistan.
Professional civilian pilot groups have negotiated for very favourable loss of health schemes. Again, with all due respect, I could fall of my roof and receive far more than a service pilots' family who dies fighting or training to protect his country. Is this an example of "your" socialism?
And as Hi'er alludes to, check out former members of your community and note their earnings. I work with dozens, they don't want their jobs back, so I won't apply either!
Last edited by Gnadenburg; 22nd Dec 2005 at 01:32.
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Over the last few month yourelf, HI'er et al. have argued and complained about pilot pay and conditions and abused me for being in a "sheltered workshop" or for not "having a real job" . I have said I'm happy with my pay and condition, and make my decision on where I work - based on this.
How is it you both now are happy with your salary and conditions and imply I'm not?? You've both been suggesting getting a "strong unified union" and sticking it to management to gouge more cash out of them.
Ok, so you now agree an airline pilot's salary in Australia is excellent, and that people should choose where they work based on this? This is what I've been saying for 3 - 6 months on here.
you say "I'm happy with my work so I'll stay in this job" - yet abuse people who go to J* etc because they are happy with the pay that is being offered there ??
I resemble that remark!
How is it you both now are happy with your salary and conditions and imply I'm not?? You've both been suggesting getting a "strong unified union" and sticking it to management to gouge more cash out of them.
Ok, so you now agree an airline pilot's salary in Australia is excellent, and that people should choose where they work based on this? This is what I've been saying for 3 - 6 months on here.
you say "I'm happy with my work so I'll stay in this job" - yet abuse people who go to J* etc because they are happy with the pay that is being offered there ??
lumbering
Frozo
Don't you dare play the victim. To an extent I felt you were trolling with your posts, but you couldn't resist the occassional jibe at a profession you know nothing about. Insecurity, or fanning the flames, had you always adding how better off you would be outside of professional aviation when you left the services, due your academic qualifications- forgive my assumption, but ADFA boys make great school teachers if I can steer you in a vocational direction.
In the civilian world at the moment, you have to bite, scratch and pull hair to maintain conditions. This is not anything to do with skills sets, it is the way management conduct business. The only defence not tried against such aggression is unification of pilot groups. This is not socialism at all.
An airline committed individual in Oz, has no choice but to accept the conditions of service negotiated or accepted by a contemporary pilot group- for example the bogus concept of paying for your airline training. Again, the only untried defence against eroding conditons is some sort of unification by the current pilot group.
Don't you dare play the victim. To an extent I felt you were trolling with your posts, but you couldn't resist the occassional jibe at a profession you know nothing about. Insecurity, or fanning the flames, had you always adding how better off you would be outside of professional aviation when you left the services, due your academic qualifications- forgive my assumption, but ADFA boys make great school teachers if I can steer you in a vocational direction.
In the civilian world at the moment, you have to bite, scratch and pull hair to maintain conditions. This is not anything to do with skills sets, it is the way management conduct business. The only defence not tried against such aggression is unification of pilot groups. This is not socialism at all.
An airline committed individual in Oz, has no choice but to accept the conditions of service negotiated or accepted by a contemporary pilot group- for example the bogus concept of paying for your airline training. Again, the only untried defence against eroding conditons is some sort of unification by the current pilot group.
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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Again, the only untried defence against eroding conditions is some sort of unification by the current pilot group
Unfortunately, given some of the arguing, bickering and self interest that I have read on these pages concerning the subject I have gained the impression that 'unification' won't happen until it is far far too late!
I would dearly love however to be proved wrong!
You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.
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150 Grand - F
k!!!
I gather that's an over exageration. Come to NZ and do the lot, CPL, MEIR (CIR), C-Cat (Grade 3) Instructor, and ATPL theory for about $60,000 give or take a bit.
It's always going to be hard to get your first job in NZ or Aus, but if you want it bad enough, you will get there. If you work your arse off, you could expect to achieve all the above training in around 12-18 months. Depending on the state of the industry at the time, after securing your first GA job, it could take as little as 2 years before you're looking at a regional turbo-prop job. Although during the slow times of the past, even highly motivated people have spent up to 5 years working in GA.
As an idea, it took me a bit under 4 years to go from nothing, to regional job. These will probibly be some of the toughest years of your life, but that just makes the reward at the end all the more sweet. Don't listen to the knockers - if flying is what you really want to do - go for it! Put in the hard yards, focus, keep your eye on the goal - and remove failure from the list of options.
Good Luck
k!!!I gather that's an over exageration. Come to NZ and do the lot, CPL, MEIR (CIR), C-Cat (Grade 3) Instructor, and ATPL theory for about $60,000 give or take a bit.
It's always going to be hard to get your first job in NZ or Aus, but if you want it bad enough, you will get there. If you work your arse off, you could expect to achieve all the above training in around 12-18 months. Depending on the state of the industry at the time, after securing your first GA job, it could take as little as 2 years before you're looking at a regional turbo-prop job. Although during the slow times of the past, even highly motivated people have spent up to 5 years working in GA.
As an idea, it took me a bit under 4 years to go from nothing, to regional job. These will probibly be some of the toughest years of your life, but that just makes the reward at the end all the more sweet. Don't listen to the knockers - if flying is what you really want to do - go for it! Put in the hard yards, focus, keep your eye on the goal - and remove failure from the list of options.
Good Luck