AOPA bunfight?
Thread Starter
AOPA bunfight?
Heard that there is a major squabble going on within the AOPA heirachy over some airspace issue. Different opinions, scathing "internal" emails being exchanged including threat of legal action, and those emails accidentally cc'ed to external gov't. agencies.
Anyone got the goss?
Anyone got the goss?
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Somebody using my membership money to threaten legal action?
Or some millionaire flexing his muscles once again?
If they kick anyone else off the board they will have to start appointing mates.
Sounds harmless, but yet something you would expect from this lot.
It will be interesting to see how the 3 hour time difference impacts on the thread from West to East coast woomera. My bet is it won't last long ThrillHouse.
Or some millionaire flexing his muscles once again?
If they kick anyone else off the board they will have to start appointing mates.
Sounds harmless, but yet something you would expect from this lot.
It will be interesting to see how the 3 hour time difference impacts on the thread from West to East coast woomera. My bet is it won't last long ThrillHouse.
I'll let it run for the present but if it gets personal......... Join Date: Dec 2005
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Do like the Woomera says, 'cos this seems to be the only place we might find out whats going on. Absolutely nothing about this on the organisations (and its Members) own Forum.
Play nice, don't get personal, just tell us the story. Pleeeeze
tipsy
woof, I mean purrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Play nice, don't get personal, just tell us the story. Pleeeeze
tipsy
woof, I mean purrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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I have been trying to think of something to write that might be informative, sympathetic, uplifting and inspirational to the current AOPA membership.
...???... ...???... ...???...
Nope, I give up. Anyone else care to have a go????
...???... ...???... ...???...
Nope, I give up. Anyone else care to have a go????
Last edited by Lodown; 13th Dec 2005 at 17:03.
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Well leaving personalities out Tachycardia, I can assure you from close sources that NO ex QF member was, or is involved. Two Canberra based board members had locked horns and one in typical vitriolic fashion took this to the outside, breaching the code of conduct and confidentiality agreement.
I would expect that member should be considering his options.
I would expect that member should be considering his options.
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It really is very sad. At a time when GA needs such an organisation now more than ever. Instead we continue to have egos and self interest. No wonder so many have walked out.
The rot set in around a decade ago now and until it is realised by the membership (that remains) exactly what the problem/s are, recovery is doubtful.
The rot set in around a decade ago now and until it is realised by the membership (that remains) exactly what the problem/s are, recovery is doubtful.
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Thanks
Thanks Colonel
You are obviously very close to what is going on in the secretive inner sanctum (or is it bowels ? ) of AOPA.
Big egos have always been part of the self-destruction formulae. Unfortuantely these battles rage amongst Alpha males whilst the membership are oblivious to the issues on which representations are made to Government. There is no consultation whatsoever and therefore personal agendas are able to prevail. Unfortuantely some on the committee are being manipulated by external self-proclaimed Mr Bigs of Aviation. Member views are merely treated with contempt.
On another issue, check out the AOPA Media Release on how they single-handed saved the World by getting extra time for the ASIC. This is a load of misleading twaddle and a desperate grasping of very short straws.
Tachy
You are obviously very close to what is going on in the secretive inner sanctum (or is it bowels ? ) of AOPA.
Big egos have always been part of the self-destruction formulae. Unfortuantely these battles rage amongst Alpha males whilst the membership are oblivious to the issues on which representations are made to Government. There is no consultation whatsoever and therefore personal agendas are able to prevail. Unfortuantely some on the committee are being manipulated by external self-proclaimed Mr Bigs of Aviation. Member views are merely treated with contempt.
On another issue, check out the AOPA Media Release on how they single-handed saved the World by getting extra time for the ASIC. This is a load of misleading twaddle and a desperate grasping of very short straws.
Tachy
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On another issue, check out the AOPA Media Release on how they single-handed saved the World by getting extra time for the ASIC.
Where is this media release? I can't see any on their website. The only thing I've seen of late is the AOPA President testified before the Joint Committee review of aviation security on the ASIC, its on the govt website http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/joint/commttee/J8905.pdf
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AOPA Saves The World
Obiwan ...
Subject: AOPA wins on ASIC issue.
Last month AOPA represented general aviation at a Parliamentary hearing into aviation security.
AOPA President Ron Bertram attended the Melbourne hearing as a witness for the commonwealth of Australia joint committee hearing. As the only recognised representative body in Australia for GA, and the only such representative at the hearings, AOPA has clearly emerged victorious helping to convince the authorities to grant an extension to the deadline to display an ASIC.
AOPA is working hard to protect your right to fly without unnecessary restrictions and costs. We acknowledge that we have not been good at communicating all of our achievements to the public therefore our profile has suffered somewhat; we are also working to rectify that situation.
Imagine if there were no AOPA
...
Tachy
Subject: AOPA wins on ASIC issue.
Last month AOPA represented general aviation at a Parliamentary hearing into aviation security.
AOPA President Ron Bertram attended the Melbourne hearing as a witness for the commonwealth of Australia joint committee hearing. As the only recognised representative body in Australia for GA, and the only such representative at the hearings, AOPA has clearly emerged victorious helping to convince the authorities to grant an extension to the deadline to display an ASIC.
AOPA is working hard to protect your right to fly without unnecessary restrictions and costs. We acknowledge that we have not been good at communicating all of our achievements to the public therefore our profile has suffered somewhat; we are also working to rectify that situation.
Imagine if there were no AOPA
...
Tachy
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Senator Hogg: Have you any idea?
Bertram: No.
Sums it up fairly well.
Hansard also sums up why members should be asking questions about how this show is being run. There are a few "porkies" in there also which is at odds with the warning he got when led to give evidence.
Bertram: No.
Sums it up fairly well.
Hansard also sums up why members should be asking questions about how this show is being run. There are a few "porkies" in there also which is at odds with the warning he got when led to give evidence.
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Oh the hypocrisey of it all............
Where's ol Robbie when you need him...sure he wouldnt allow AOPA to be slagged off like this on his forum....
Kris
I'm afraid you reap what you plausibly deny Kris. The only reason the thread lives, for now, is because of your carefully phrased denial of problems. That varies from what we understand to be the case and if there is even a faint possibility members' funds might be used by proven lawyers to seperate rutting board members the thread can stay here.
As and when the Woomeras are satisfied that paying Aopa members can openly discuss the situation on the communications software they are funding along with the Hansard report they are at liberty to close this thread - the normal SOP.
Rob
Where's ol Robbie when you need him...sure he wouldnt allow AOPA to be slagged off like this on his forum....
Kris
I'm afraid you reap what you plausibly deny Kris. The only reason the thread lives, for now, is because of your carefully phrased denial of problems. That varies from what we understand to be the case and if there is even a faint possibility members' funds might be used by proven lawyers to seperate rutting board members the thread can stay here.
As and when the Woomeras are satisfied that paying Aopa members can openly discuss the situation on the communications software they are funding along with the Hansard report they are at liberty to close this thread - the normal SOP.
Rob
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I think you will find the criticism is directed at the ruling encumbants not AOPA.
I suggest you read the link, (below again);
http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/joint/commttee/J8905.pdf
and play "pick the fibs"
Colonel, Sir, your link won't work!
Woomera
click on Obiwan post 5 back, his works.
col.
I suggest you read the link, (below again);
http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/joint/commttee/J8905.pdf
and play "pick the fibs"
Colonel, Sir, your link won't work!
Woomera
click on Obiwan post 5 back, his works.
col.
Last edited by colonel cameron; 14th Dec 2005 at 23:03.
I keep thinking there needs to be a peak body for GA that might even represent us miserable PPL's......
Still waiting. "Attacking", "victory", "winning", "Losing" are not words that spring to mind when trying to run an organisation dealing with the public service.
Still waiting. "Attacking", "victory", "winning", "Losing" are not words that spring to mind when trying to run an organisation dealing with the public service.
Grandpa Aerotart
How can Mr Bertram be so, apparently, ignorant about GA security in places like the UK?
I have flown in the UK privately in the last few mths and visited GA airfields regularly there for the last 2 yrs....there is NO security at these airports at all...let alone dumb security like ASIC cards...NONE.
It beggars belief that he would turn up to such a meeting and not have such basic information to support his case that DOTARS are idiots out of control when it comes to private aviation.
And that he sees no positives in being in communication with like minded organisations overseas.
I find his innability to answer some very basic questions disturbing in the extreme.
I would bet folding money that in the days Patroni was running the place this would not have been the case...and that was why the organisation had such a high number of members...4000 out of 18000 is a telling number....especially when you include the huge numbers of professional pilots who used to be members...like me for example.
The old story about statistics and damned lies...if you include ALL pilots who might join AOPA or who used to be members it makes for a more interesting comparison....many ATPL holders also own aircraft but by Bertram's own admission they, AOPA, are not interested unless you only hold a PPL.
I have flown in the UK privately in the last few mths and visited GA airfields regularly there for the last 2 yrs....there is NO security at these airports at all...let alone dumb security like ASIC cards...NONE.
It beggars belief that he would turn up to such a meeting and not have such basic information to support his case that DOTARS are idiots out of control when it comes to private aviation.
And that he sees no positives in being in communication with like minded organisations overseas.
I find his innability to answer some very basic questions disturbing in the extreme.
I would bet folding money that in the days Patroni was running the place this would not have been the case...and that was why the organisation had such a high number of members...4000 out of 18000 is a telling number....especially when you include the huge numbers of professional pilots who used to be members...like me for example.
The old story about statistics and damned lies...if you include ALL pilots who might join AOPA or who used to be members it makes for a more interesting comparison....many ATPL holders also own aircraft but by Bertram's own admission they, AOPA, are not interested unless you only hold a PPL.
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Kris
True ! AOPA that criticised other aviation bodies for "taking" money from CASA has now secretly received funding from their stated enemy. They haven't told their members, wonder why that is ? How much did AOPA receive from CASA Kris ?
Chimbu
Even worse, the AOPA membership is not 4,000 but far less. Note that the actual number is never quoted now, that too is on the "classified" list. I remember reading that 20,000 had left (12,000 had joined ) AOPA over the decade since Patroni, the net result with low retention is around now around 3,500. Hardly something to crow about.
Tachy
Since my (above) posting a good Samaritan has drawn my attention to the \"President\'s Report\" in the Dec 2005 AOPA Magazine.
This big-notes the mangificent achievement of \"the first AOPA road show for a number of years\". And whats more it is \"free to all members\". Samaritan tells me that CASA\'s funding is to pay for the President\'s airfares and the cost of the seminars. Is this correct Kris ?
If it is correct, why was this crucial point absent from the President\'s article ? Is this just another example of the porkies being told to members thru a litany of decption by omission ?
Tachy
Oh the hypocrisey (sic) of it all............
Chimbu
Even worse, the AOPA membership is not 4,000 but far less. Note that the actual number is never quoted now, that too is on the "classified" list. I remember reading that 20,000 had left (12,000 had joined ) AOPA over the decade since Patroni, the net result with low retention is around now around 3,500. Hardly something to crow about.
Tachy
Since my (above) posting a good Samaritan has drawn my attention to the \"President\'s Report\" in the Dec 2005 AOPA Magazine.
This big-notes the mangificent achievement of \"the first AOPA road show for a number of years\". And whats more it is \"free to all members\". Samaritan tells me that CASA\'s funding is to pay for the President\'s airfares and the cost of the seminars. Is this correct Kris ?
If it is correct, why was this crucial point absent from the President\'s article ? Is this just another example of the porkies being told to members thru a litany of decption by omission ?
Tachy