AOPA bunfight?

[Bob Murphie]

Re: AOPA bunfight?

Hey Popsmurf;

When you start calling people a Liar, you had better get your facts right.

Who did you ring to find out whatever lies you refer to? A one sided story I'll bet. Did you bother to ring me to get a balanced view?

Are you the anonomous Barrister who gave word today that you were going to do a job on me for nothing? Bring it on sunshine.

Get two sides to the story before we find out in the discovery process. I dare you to prove I made any accusations against anybody else for having a conflict of interest. I dare you to put your name to this post you coward.

Piss or get off the pot.

Thanks for the vote Steph.

BTW;

I would give AOPA the benefit of the doubt with their fight against the AVMED money grab. Don't know what their platform was on the whole cost recovery concept, but can guess.

[tipsy2]

Re: AOPA bunfight?

POPSMURF, usually discussion of matters AOPA get binned from PPRuNe because they inevitably finish up as a slag fest. So that this particular discussion does not go that way could you please , for all our sake, not refer to fellow posters as, sad or pathetic or as an idiot. Hardly contributes to the real discussion at all.

Thank you

tipsy

[retardted]

Re: AOPA bunfight?

tipsy as long as this thread keeps poopooeing aopa our god almighty saint 2nd officer rob wont cann it

long live freedom and the choice to shat on ones ex committee
bob i thought better of you to do this i was wrong

[P|_azbot]

Re: AOPA bunfight?

Originally Posted by OZBUSDRIVER

SMIEEE= Senior
Member Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers
Radtechs!

Lol makes sense why he hate ATC so much. Just another Tech that stuffs uour stuff up.

[retardted]

Re: AOPA bunfight?

Security regime may prompt pilots to seek Senate spots
8:16 AM January 16
The Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association is considering standing Senate candidates at the next federal election, as anger grows among regional pilots over increased security checks.
A Government letter has been circulated among members of the association, saying that anyone who flies without first completing new anti-terrorism security clearance checks is committing an offence.
The association's vice-president, Andrew Kerans, believes the measures will ground about 1,500 pilots.

He estimates 30 per cent of his regional members are yet to apply for new security ID cards.
Mr Kerans estimates more than 1,000 regional Queensland pilots are now technically grounded because they have not applied for the ID cards.
"If you think the majority of those will be out bush where aviation is a daily part of life, it could cause a major disturbance in rural Australia," he said.
Federal Transport Department spokeswoman Vicki Dickman says if pilots have not applied for the ID cards they cannot fly.
"No, you should have had your background check well and truly completed by December 31st," she said.
Mr Kerans says the association is now considering fielding federal Senate candidates to draw preferences away from the National party.
Source: ABC


and i thought kerans was tied up with aopa sueing ex directors looks like they just goton with the job sorry bob yesterdays news

[Bob Murphie]

Re: AOPA bunfight?

"Add my prophecy (and I sincerely hope I am wrong), that after 31st December 05, and as a consequence of the ASIC / AVID / AVMED / part 47 / full cost recovery etc etc, the GA industry will be gutted by at least 20% and as one can relate this to membership, AOPA will be in a very difficult position".

I made that prophecy some 12 months ago and was laughed out of the boardroom, now AK is in agreeance. Politics change people. Seems AOPA have only been a "Political Party" for 10 minutes and they are stealing policy from others already.

If AOPA loose the stated membership, who is going to fund this run for The Senate? Is this a board decision without consulting the members or another policy on the run?

By the way, nobody has come good with anything to back up their threats yet and at one minute past 5 today, ESDST the posts go back up. I may actually add another received yesterday.

Popsmurf: It appears your asking and then receiving answers that are totally incorrect has put AOPA in a very bad light regarding their "confidentiality agreements" As you haved't bothered to pm me with details to back up your allegations, and as the board of AOPA are on public record, would you mind advising who you asked to get your information. You see you have defamed me as an agent of the people alleging I have defamed them. I agree to indemnify you of the consequences however so we may get to the truth of the matter. Thats if you want to listen to it of course.

Time for an edit;

As someone who spent more than 12 months studying the AOPA constitution, and then redrafting it, I can say with a great deal of qualification that AOPA's constitution won't allow any run for the Senate. Read the stated aims.

The Constitution would have to be amended by General meeting and of course one can only take an educated guess who the Senator would be if it got through.

[Sunfish]

Re: AOPA bunfight?

I think AOPA needs to be put to sleep so that we can get on with organising a better association.

AOPA has gone totally mad if it thinks that putting up spoiling candidates is somehow going to make Minister Truss tug the forelock and apologise to AOPA then ask their opinion on policy. I mean are you guys totally living on another planet or what???? I cannot think of any way you could further alienate either the government or opposition by such a foolish move.

The madness continues in the form of seeing everything as a battle and then using war terminology like "Fight" all the time.

Translation: AOPA's "fights" make exactly as much sense as "The war on terror".

Translation AOPA Idiots - wake up! You are fighting battles that you cannot, should not and will not win against the very people who should be your allies. I feel like banging my head against the wall at the stupidity of this!!!!

As I have said elsewhere in the Casa cost recovery forum, "user pays" = "User says". We should be working with CASA to understand their cost structure and to help them eliminate waste and duplication by changing work practices in collaboration with the industry.

However this cannot be done with boneheads talking about running for the Seanate over medical certificate charges.

Translation: If CASA says its $145 bucks then that's it! The correct thing to do is to understand why they think they need to charge that much and then decide if there is any way it might be possible for us to assume some of the processing work ourselves for example, or change the rules. It is not smart to throw the toys out of the sandpit and run for the senate!!!!!

Same applies to the ASIC debate.

Don't you understand AOPA? You are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop making things worse!!!!

[Atlas Shrugged]

Re: AOPA bunfight?

Sunfish,

[retardted]

Re: AOPA bunfight?

sunfish why dunt you start a noo associatation now ****

[Bob Murphie]

Re: AOPA bunfight?

And your mother wears Army boots: What intelligent comment.

Sunfish, I believe we may have crossed swords before, but if you want a head start just ask me, I may have a wealth of information including nearly 700 (of my own and personal), email addresses to give to someone if this lot keep going on their path. Don't push me however because I believe AOPA is not yet a basket case.

Any member has the right to request and then within 7 days get a copy of the AOPA database. Trouble is they won't give you the email contacts, only what is required by law and that is a copy in a useable format.

So you get the names and addresses thence costing you half a buck to contact them. Also they will spring a thing on you that you can't contact the members via this medium, but that is wrong if used legally and sensibly.

BTW it will cost you $200 for for AOPA to process the of downloading of it to a disc, which experts consider a 5 minute job plus the disc and a stamp, which makes CASA's fees look reasonable.

[bigfella5]

Re: AOPA bunfight?

Isn't it funny?..........This thread has only lasted a few pages, but already because the word AOPA is put in there somewhere, a crap fight breaks out.
These threads show why AOPA as it currently stands is a waste of time insofar as being an advocacy group and those associated with it tend to be irrelevant.
I understand where Sunfish is coming from and tend to agree with what he says (notwithstanding the fact he has a pathological hatred of all things Southern,Red and profitable.....thats cool, he is a queer one after all!! ).
Unfortunately, starting a new group won't fix the main problem (having a voice in GA) only worsen it by dividing the voices/potential voices that exist.
I've gotten to the stage where I feel I'm forced to join the blasted outfit because I can't think of any way else of helping the industry at a grass roots level (apart from marrying Gretel Packer and sponsoring all flying performed by aero clubs/schools etc.....but geez.....mate...., thats a big grenade to take for the platoon!!!) The thought though of dealing with a few of the directors/ex directors is butt scratchingly painful to say the very least.
I'd suggest than rather than sitting on the sideline bleating like a school girl thats lost her cherry to one of the forward pack, the ex directors get back in there and DO SOMETHING..........ANYTHING. Just stop sitting at home being bitter......you'll upset the wife.
In any case, I suggesat taht we close this thread, grab the crack pipe and contemplate the animal hospital across the road..(there there Dolly, you don't tell, I don't tell, thats the deal !! )

[Sunfish]

Re: AOPA bunfight?

Bob, every time I visit their website looking for something sensible, all I see is more aggressive and highly emotional rubbish that, rather than advancing the cause of GA, is doing the reverse.

"Tearing the heart out of GA" my @rse! Exactly what is the Minister and his civil servants expected to do with rubbish like that?

Telling the Minister he has made "A shambles' of aviation security?

AOPA's Mission: "AOPA stands for it's members' right to fly without unnecessary restrictions and costs.' This is childish rubbish! You have no such rights and never have had them!

Then of course there are the posts on the website talking contemptuously about public servants stuffing things up.

Well AOPA people, I was priviledged to work for the Kennett government for four years, tasked with getting manufacturing industry back on its feet, which we did. I had never worked for the public sector, or with public servants before. I say it was a priviledge because with one or two rare exceptions the ones I worked with were a dedicated ansd conscientous group who worked bloody hard for what they were paid and had no axe to grind. I also worked with my opposite numbers in the Commonwealth government as well.

Now let me tell you a secret. Provided you are civil and helpful, the public service will bend over backwards to help you. However there is one thing they cannot stand, and that is the type of wind - bag uninformed cheap shots of the sort AOPA fires at CASA with every press release. They hate it even more when the shots are aimed at the Minister. Why? Because they can't respond, with the very occasional exception of correcting a factual error. They have to remain civil.

So what response can a public servant make to a rude and abusive customer who complains all the time like AOPA does? I'll leave it to your imagination, except to say we had dealings with a certain firm whose CEO was always in the paper lambasting the Department. What the guy didn't know was that as a result of his behaviour, there was a directive that all correspondance from this person went to a deputy secretary who "managed" the relationship in a highly satisfying way from the Department's point of view, the guy never worked out why all his competitors could get government grants, but his requests always seemed non compliant. It served the bugger right.

Hint AOPA - if you think that the medical costs too much, find out why CASA thinks it costs that much. Also find out what a full aviation medical check would cost in the private sector, assuming you could find one doctor who could do all the tests - without the regulation that you only paid $100. I suspect you would find $245 total cost represents good value. A mate of mine had a triple bypass after the tests found coronary disease.

If you still think $245 is too steep, then work out with CASA what can be cut to get CASA's cost base down.

My guess is that without a Pauline conversion, AOPA's file is too thick for it to recover any credibility with CASA, and the result is that eventually CASA will ask the RAA to represent the GA industry instead.

[Bob Murphie]

Re: AOPA bunfight?

Bigfella;

There are personalities that make up an AOPA board (from what I have observed anyway). The first is the egotist and political go getter, and the second a social justice fighter. I am proud to be the latter.

I will admit that as a victim of CASA (ask someone else, the record is broken), I have been a very vocal advocate of the crash and burn brigade, but of recent a lot has changed especially with regard "heaps" of people and their Ilk that previously antagonised me and cost me "heaps" of money.

I am guilty of shutting up when forced to toe the party line over bad and mad injustices in Central Qld, but soldiered on with a couple of mates anyway and we achieved an outcome. My part was minimal, but the fire was there anyway. AOPA weren't and the injustice was against one of their members.

Grass roots flying: pm me and I'll send you a precis of what I thought would solve the problems. Perhaps you can use this as a seed to further and nurture future pilots needing a representative body. I still don't subscribe to the notion that AOPA is broke. It's just cracked a bit by vibration and abrasiveness.

The other thing regarding the egotists is that they don't know what is going on around them. A Mate has been vilified all over town about doors being closed to AOPA in Canberra because of him. Same bloke knows Northbourne Ave better than most and the doors ARE always open.

So one can say that perhaps sunfish has some points now because things just change. Perhaps we are friends, perhaps who I think he is is not at all. Such is Pprune. Perhaps I am just getting old and don't give a rat's anymore.

Someone is going to sue me aparantly.

[Bob Murphie]

Re: AOPA bunfight?

Groundhog day.

This montage is a summary from Ozipilots online forum and after fair warning about publishing Pprune IP’s which Mr Kerans did, and subsequently deleted after three warnings by myself and others. The posts are in order, 1), the caution not by me, 2), My post which has so offended, 3), The threatening email, and 4), an edited copy ( to protect the provider of the information), of a threat on Sunday last 15th January 06.



1) The alleged "Members List" contains only the same info as the public profile, which was available to all users in the old format. I would perhaps urge caution in publishing the Members List on the internet - I suspect there may be legal implications.






2) I believe one individual has already transgressed the bounds of "legal implications"

These persons had, by erroneous deduction, had their IP's posted for all and sundry, (and coincidentally reformatted to admissable PDF by the very quick witted before they were removed).

This person who should have been doing taxpayers work at the time is, or shortly will be, in quiet a bit of bother on a lot of fronts.






3) Dear Mr Murphie

I note you have made numerous defamatory statements about me on various internet forums. While in most cases (but not all) you have not identified me by name it is my view that via your innuendo I am easily identified.

I am most upset and disturbed at the potential to damage my good reputation.

I notice also you have made a flippant threat regarding my employment.

I give you fair notice and warning, if you do not immediately cease publishing defamatory material about me in any way and under any guise I shall take action against you to recover damages.

I shall take an immediate written undertaking to cease such activities together with an apology to me at this e-mail address as settling the matter provided such e-mail is received by me within 24 hours of the sending of this e-mail. (18:00 Eastern Summer Time). I reserve the right to publish the apology wherever you may have published defamatory material.

The issue of defamatory statements regarding the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA) is a separate issue that will be dealt with by the Board of AOPA.

Regards

Andrew Kerans
BEng MEng SMIEEE
Vice President
AOPA Australia

4) Bob
You’ve really done it this time.
I’m keeping out of this one because I told them I don’t want to give advice about you.
But they are going to DoTARS about the payoff allegation, xxxxxx is going to be involved about the pro bono bit, and they now have a member who is a barrister etc who contacted them concerned as a member about the allegations on Pprune to get the facts then offered to do you over for no charge.
Review everything you put up and make sure you have cast iron proof is my urgent recommendation.
I think this one will get nasty.

Makes one feel good member or not. One can only guess about the crux of the text.

[Brian_Dunnigan]

Re: AOPA bunfight?

I am going to look at what can be done to start a new organisation...it'll be hard but judging by the slanging going on in this and other threads, it seems that aviation isn't united anyway and needs a new force to come in and get the priorities of ALL aviators.

It can't be that hard, surely, to get some of us together and sort out what the issues are and go to government and see if something can be done?

I just want to create something that we can feel happy to be in, to our mutual benefit.

What d'yall think?

[Tail_Wheel]

Re: AOPA bunfight?

Hugh & Plaz

Took some searching but I found the Institute of Electrical Engineers web site.

Interesting requirement for Membership:

It's just 3 easy steps to join the IEE:
1. Select the type of membership most appropriate to you: Student, Member, Member (MIEE), Fellow.
2. Find out the subscription rate for your membership.
3. Complete your application.

[ninnie]

Re: AOPA bunfight?

Oh well, I tried.

Perhaps I was wrong, Bob's last post certainly seems that of a bitter and twisted old man.

Sunfish, you seem to make sense sometimes, can I ask?? do you seek their side from those you pick on in AOPA or rely on the very unreliable post from the 'ex-directors'????

I hope you do ask, I'd think less of you as a person if you didn't.

Poor old Bob

Steph

[Bob Murphie]

Re: AOPA bunfight?

Steph;

I'm not sure where you are coming from, but I should ask:

have you ever been threatened and intimidated with loosing your family home by a millionair when you can't defend yourself with anything but the truth?

have you ever had four threats to "do you" or "sue the arse off you"?

have you ever had a threat from two Barristers? (One got let off lightly at the Bar association because I let the complaint go as a Christmas present). The next one won't.

have you ever been part of a kangaroo court where nothing you said was taken into account because of a pre ordained write up of the minutes?

have you ever been party to any illegal activities that may see you liable because of others wild and imaginative flights of fantasy?

Have you ever ben a Company director?

Have you ever been denied your right to seek independant advice as a Company Director?

Do you know that ignorance is no excuse for a director of a public Company, (yes AOPA is a public company)?

Do you know that it is the duty of a Director to keep himself informed?

Did it occur to you that the AOPA confidentiality agreements are illegal in this respect?

Did you ever get voted to a position of trust then find you could not represent your constituents because of illegal "executive" board directions?

If ever you were elected as a representative of your constituents would you say to them, I can't talk to you because of a confidentiality agreement?

Were you ever elected to any position of responsibility?

have you ever tried dealing with a democrat?

have you ever tried dealing with a schitzo?

Poor old Bob..........tried to do the best for the members and then to cop that, what a waste of effort.

Well at least I did my best.

The previous post is to highlight the depths this board have sunk to to silence dissent or opposing opinion.

When they sue me, if they've got the guts, AOPA will truly be dead as a Dodo and I do have the balls to stand up for what I believe are social justice issues, and my home is on the line as a consequence.

Poor old Bob and Judy Murphie.

Why don't you start up a collection for AOPA to sue me?

[Bob Murphie]

Re: AOPA bunfight?

Courtesy Ozipilots on line forum agacf forum. Not my words note Steph;


And Mr Kerans scores another goal, Chris McKeown has resigned as a Director of AOPA, the dopy Committee don't know why !!!!!

Could it simply be that having been defamed professionally by Kerans there was no alternative but for Chris to ask for an apology to protect his professional position and then Kerans wanted a motion of no confidence against Chris.

Uluru, it seems you and I are in a state of uncommon accord, it beggars belief that reasonable men on a board continue to tolerate this sort of behaviour from one in their midst as a group of like minded peers.

I guess Kerans will be censured for this by the time honoured method of flaggelation with a wet 2 day old lettuce leaf and he can get back to the eye gouging and ankle kicks forthwith.

And people say Murphie and myself are trying to undo AOPA, bloody hell all we have to do is sit at the sidelines and count the bodies.

And if Kerans is the last man standing there is always the Senate.

From Bob Murphie: The Senate deserves him.

[q1w2e3]

Re: AOPA bunfight?

"Mr Kerans says the association is now considering fielding federal Senate candidates to draw preferences away from the National party."

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