Darwin Accomodation
Silly Old Git
I love Darwhine.
Im getting more than a little pissed off my kids cant walk from my house in the city park to a corner store without the threat of being humbugged or even possibly bashed in broad daylight.
Would you put up with this sort of ****e in Sydney /Melbourne /Adelaide/Perth ?
If they want to use my tax $$ to build bigger jails go right ahead.
Enough is enough.
Im getting more than a little pissed off my kids cant walk from my house in the city park to a corner store without the threat of being humbugged or even possibly bashed in broad daylight.
Would you put up with this sort of ****e in Sydney /Melbourne /Adelaide/Perth ?
If they want to use my tax $$ to build bigger jails go right ahead.
Enough is enough.
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Just popping back briefly to Grumpy's first post on this thread, the response, in my most humble opinion to that first post from Bagot Locator, was a tad harsh.
That ditty has been trotted more than once in the last, oh, say 4-5 years. It is a tongue in cheek description of that landmark known to most residents of DRW.
Since then, there have been reasoned and interesting posts from several people and I commend them. This thread has now become interesting.
just adding this for thought, without wishing to incite a riot :
racial vilification is, under s4 of the act: in a nutshell I might add,
A person must not incite hatred towards, serious contempt for, or severe ridicule of, a person or group of persons on the ground of their race by a)threatening physical harm or (b)inciting others to threaten physical harm.
In that context, I think that debate then ends.
I was a territory resident at a very young age, both for myself and the territory. I have maintained my links over the years and have lived/worked and currently own property there.
It has changed with the times: unfortunately the cultural aspects of some within the wider Darwin community have changed but to their detriment.
It is a fact that there are indigenous folk, known as long-grassers, and are people who are either displaced from the communities for some act that has offended their local customary law OR, by choice, they have descended upon the bigger centres simply to drink (particularly if their community is dry).
It is a sad situation, one the NT Government together and in conjunction with the local indigenous elders is trying to overcome. Several practices are in force to attempt to reverse the trend. But as with all things, it does take time.
Oh, and there goes the no female participation in this thread theory.
That ditty has been trotted more than once in the last, oh, say 4-5 years. It is a tongue in cheek description of that landmark known to most residents of DRW.
Since then, there have been reasoned and interesting posts from several people and I commend them. This thread has now become interesting.
just adding this for thought, without wishing to incite a riot :
racial vilification is, under s4 of the act: in a nutshell I might add,
A person must not incite hatred towards, serious contempt for, or severe ridicule of, a person or group of persons on the ground of their race by a)threatening physical harm or (b)inciting others to threaten physical harm.
In that context, I think that debate then ends.
I was a territory resident at a very young age, both for myself and the territory. I have maintained my links over the years and have lived/worked and currently own property there.
It has changed with the times: unfortunately the cultural aspects of some within the wider Darwin community have changed but to their detriment.
It is a fact that there are indigenous folk, known as long-grassers, and are people who are either displaced from the communities for some act that has offended their local customary law OR, by choice, they have descended upon the bigger centres simply to drink (particularly if their community is dry).
It is a sad situation, one the NT Government together and in conjunction with the local indigenous elders is trying to overcome. Several practices are in force to attempt to reverse the trend. But as with all things, it does take time.
Oh, and there goes the no female participation in this thread theory.
Silly Old Git
It is a sad situation, one the NT Government together and in conjunction with the local indigenous elders is trying to overcome. Several practices are in force to attempt to reverse the trend. But as with all things, it does take time.
Meanwhile how about no siddown money ?
As someone who has to deal with those bastards at centrelink over family allowance payments I find it INCREDIBLE that anyone could get money out them so easily.
A little leg up here and there from huggy fluff organisations perhaps?
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Originally Posted by VH-GRUMPY
Chaps (I know no one is female in this debate)
Come on - don't display your intellectual ingorance on the internet - everyone can see it.
Latte - give me a break that insult went out when you were still lusting over some idiot on page 3 of your normal newspaper 30 years ago. Take your hand off it and tackle my argument seriously.
Grumpy
Come on - don't display your intellectual ingorance on the internet - everyone can see it.
Latte - give me a break that insult went out when you were still lusting over some idiot on page 3 of your normal newspaper 30 years ago. Take your hand off it and tackle my argument seriously.
Grumpy
.What is your argument anyway?
Yours and your families background is fascinating, truly scintilating stuff.
Your argument?
We have never met but I've met a strawman or two. At least 3 now
.I'm off for a latte, if i can just....what was it again....oh yes, "get my hand off it" Again truly inspiring words.
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Grumpy
The university called, they need you to brainwash some more arts students into feeling 'sorry'. The last few protests have had less than acceptable attendance.
Gee great, a white person broke into your house. Proves nothing and furthermore enforces the argument. If the person was black when caught they could blame their ethnicity and walk away.
All i know is im often kept up all night by these 'gangsters' who live across the street yelling abuse at each other and smashing random objects, and I can't walk home at night due to little punks with baseball bats wandering the streets. And they're not white.
TC
The university called, they need you to brainwash some more arts students into feeling 'sorry'. The last few protests have had less than acceptable attendance.
Gee great, a white person broke into your house. Proves nothing and furthermore enforces the argument. If the person was black when caught they could blame their ethnicity and walk away.
All i know is im often kept up all night by these 'gangsters' who live across the street yelling abuse at each other and smashing random objects, and I can't walk home at night due to little punks with baseball bats wandering the streets. And they're not white.
TC
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Originally Posted by VH-GRUMPY
Tiger77 - normal people knowing when to stop! Give me a break. Was that the idiots from both the Cronula white community and the Lebanese western Sydney community recently? That was white rascism at work and it generated an equally stupid counter-rascist response from the Lebansese gangs.
Grumpy
Wouldn't it be more PC if the word "Lebanese", be replaced by the words, "people of middle eastern appearance"?
One would "hate" to sterotype in this day and age....
Also, it is spelt CRONULLA, not Cronula.
Whilst we are on the spelling mistakes the word rascist, is actually spelt RACIST.
Hope I have cleared some things up for you.
Coon day, oops I mean Good day
CMN
Last edited by ContactMeNow; 3rd Jun 2006 at 08:52.
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In my 40 years in the workforce I suspect that I have seen more of aboriginal Australia than a lot of Australians including in Cobar, Lightning Ridge, Godooga; Birdsville, Broken Hill, Nyngan, Broome, Karratha, Cairns, Townsville, Mackay, Rocky, Dingo, and a lot more.
Aboriginal Australia? Give me a break. All these places are towns and have highways going through them (and have at least one place you can reflect on your vast experiences over a latte and quiche
). Did you get postcards? ...Disco
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Originally Posted by disco_air
Canberra is an isolated place. I bet you impress everyone there with your tales of the outside world.
Aboriginal Australia? Give me a break. All these places are towns and have highways going through them. Did you get postcards?
...Disco
Aboriginal Australia? Give me a break. All these places are towns and have highways going through them. Did you get postcards?
...Disco
Disco, I take my hat off to you once again
Broome and Karratha? You mean South Hedland and Roebourne, right?
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People do what their parents do.
If you grow up in a middle class East coast family home you will probably strive to get some sort of practical education, follow some sport, plan on having a house and family, drink socially and take an interest in whats in the paper....If your Dad abuses your mum there is a good chance you will be tempted to do the same in your relationship because thats what you learnt as a kid. If you are female in that scenario you'll be more likely to accept it in your relationship....it's what you percieve as 'normal for you'.
If you grow up in Port Keats you will probably take an interest in Ausi rules and not bat an eyelid at verbal/ physical abuse and maybe sexual as well. You'll accept that financial wealth is not 'normal for you' and know that to obtain it would be going against the flow, you won't expect a minimum of year 12 education but probably a uni degree, you won't expect to hold a position of power/responsibility in the big smoke.....you probably aren't even sure where the big smoke is (unless you count Darwin). You probably won't be exposed to adult discussions about mortage rates and UN policy and school zoning and global warming on a daily basis and learn by osmosis how these conversations go, chances are you won't hear mum and dad trying to figure out what 'four down starting with s' is every sunday arvo........when eventually you are exposed to some of these things it is not 'normal for you'. So what do you do??? Pretty much what mum and dad did because you don't know anything else.
That begs the question 'why are mum and dad doing these things?'
Two cultures clashed a while back...they didn't mesh, one just rolled over the other. I'm not saying thats right or wrong, thats just how it was and that was pretty normal then. But the Aboriginal structure and heirachy was rendered useless...it didn't have a role in the new culture, an elder who was important and had status suddenly had seemigly no useful skills in the new way of things...he had lost his status, he got drunk cause things looked pretty glum, he ended up face down in a gutter, his boy watched him do this....he couldn't see a role for himself in this new strange culture either....so he did what dad did, and so on.
Thats a very simplified version of what I reckon has happened, basically one culture took over (leaving the other feeling useless) and people generally do what their parents do.
Very interseting topic and I'd be happy for people to point out holes in my theory so I can adjust it!
my two cents.
PS I think that the subconscious compulsion to do what you've seen your parents do while growing up is very very strong, almost a basic instinct. Stronger than all but the most tenacious concious decisions to do otherwise.
If you grow up in a middle class East coast family home you will probably strive to get some sort of practical education, follow some sport, plan on having a house and family, drink socially and take an interest in whats in the paper....If your Dad abuses your mum there is a good chance you will be tempted to do the same in your relationship because thats what you learnt as a kid. If you are female in that scenario you'll be more likely to accept it in your relationship....it's what you percieve as 'normal for you'.
If you grow up in Port Keats you will probably take an interest in Ausi rules and not bat an eyelid at verbal/ physical abuse and maybe sexual as well. You'll accept that financial wealth is not 'normal for you' and know that to obtain it would be going against the flow, you won't expect a minimum of year 12 education but probably a uni degree, you won't expect to hold a position of power/responsibility in the big smoke.....you probably aren't even sure where the big smoke is (unless you count Darwin). You probably won't be exposed to adult discussions about mortage rates and UN policy and school zoning and global warming on a daily basis and learn by osmosis how these conversations go, chances are you won't hear mum and dad trying to figure out what 'four down starting with s' is every sunday arvo........when eventually you are exposed to some of these things it is not 'normal for you'. So what do you do??? Pretty much what mum and dad did because you don't know anything else.
That begs the question 'why are mum and dad doing these things?'
Two cultures clashed a while back...they didn't mesh, one just rolled over the other. I'm not saying thats right or wrong, thats just how it was and that was pretty normal then. But the Aboriginal structure and heirachy was rendered useless...it didn't have a role in the new culture, an elder who was important and had status suddenly had seemigly no useful skills in the new way of things...he had lost his status, he got drunk cause things looked pretty glum, he ended up face down in a gutter, his boy watched him do this....he couldn't see a role for himself in this new strange culture either....so he did what dad did, and so on.
Thats a very simplified version of what I reckon has happened, basically one culture took over (leaving the other feeling useless) and people generally do what their parents do.
Very interseting topic and I'd be happy for people to point out holes in my theory so I can adjust it!
my two cents.
PS I think that the subconscious compulsion to do what you've seen your parents do while growing up is very very strong, almost a basic instinct. Stronger than all but the most tenacious concious decisions to do otherwise.
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i wonder if the voice could clear something up?
if one were to say that members of a group (defined by their "race") were lazy, drunken slobs, offensive to more than one of the senses (but particularly the olfactory), unable to contribute much to society, stupid, violent, free loaders, unable to achieve progress (beyond walking around the place) and generally p*ss poor in innumerable other ways, but one did not threaten physical harm or incite others to do so, then it would not be racial vilification?
now before you all start (hehe), if you think i'm referring to a particular "race", perhaps you should examine your own stereotypical view of said "race". i am talking about a hypothetical group defined by their "race", not any group that may have been referred to above.
i would like to emphasise that grumpy has attributed characteristics to certain groups based on race (called Cronulla white communtiy and Lebanese community idiots and stupid) - not I.
if one were to say that members of a group (defined by their "race") were lazy, drunken slobs, offensive to more than one of the senses (but particularly the olfactory), unable to contribute much to society, stupid, violent, free loaders, unable to achieve progress (beyond walking around the place) and generally p*ss poor in innumerable other ways, but one did not threaten physical harm or incite others to do so, then it would not be racial vilification?
now before you all start (hehe), if you think i'm referring to a particular "race", perhaps you should examine your own stereotypical view of said "race". i am talking about a hypothetical group defined by their "race", not any group that may have been referred to above.
i would like to emphasise that grumpy has attributed characteristics to certain groups based on race (called Cronulla white communtiy and Lebanese community idiots and stupid) - not I.
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Justa....
A good summary, but you did ask for responses!
Would it be fair to say that your observations failry closely follow the nature vs nurture debate? Pretty much all of the anti-social behaviour is learned through observation, negative modelling and the lack of opportunity and choice throughout our childhood, from birth. As this outcome appears more the norm than the exception I tend to agree with you.
But there are exceptions everywhere. There are many examples of poor boy/girl made good despite crippling homelives not only from every culture but also from individual families. The big question is why are there exceptions? What makes an individual break out of the expectations barrier?
A seratonin transporter gene was identified last year (in Oz) whereby that 20-30% of the population with the short version of the gene are significantly more likley to suffer clinical depression during their lives. No, the gene doesnt cause the depression, but instead means that the levels of resilience and coping skills to handle a succession of the big negative 'life events' are a lot poorer than those without this version of the gene. Such people are susceptable to clinical depression.
This has scary ramifications for society (and overwhelming positives as well). Destructive anti-social behaviour patterns aren't just a product of wrong or irresponsible choices. They can also be the result or at least exaccerbated by inate factors. I dont want to even think about the impact on the legal system of somewhere down the track identifying the 'liar' gene or the 'callous murderer' gene! Of course this can never absolve personal responsibilty for one's actions but its not so balck and white as it used to be.
I'm sure some mates have the 'cheap drunk' gene.
A good summary, but you did ask for responses!
Would it be fair to say that your observations failry closely follow the nature vs nurture debate? Pretty much all of the anti-social behaviour is learned through observation, negative modelling and the lack of opportunity and choice throughout our childhood, from birth. As this outcome appears more the norm than the exception I tend to agree with you.
But there are exceptions everywhere. There are many examples of poor boy/girl made good despite crippling homelives not only from every culture but also from individual families. The big question is why are there exceptions? What makes an individual break out of the expectations barrier?
A seratonin transporter gene was identified last year (in Oz) whereby that 20-30% of the population with the short version of the gene are significantly more likley to suffer clinical depression during their lives. No, the gene doesnt cause the depression, but instead means that the levels of resilience and coping skills to handle a succession of the big negative 'life events' are a lot poorer than those without this version of the gene. Such people are susceptable to clinical depression.
This has scary ramifications for society (and overwhelming positives as well). Destructive anti-social behaviour patterns aren't just a product of wrong or irresponsible choices. They can also be the result or at least exaccerbated by inate factors. I dont want to even think about the impact on the legal system of somewhere down the track identifying the 'liar' gene or the 'callous murderer' gene! Of course this can never absolve personal responsibilty for one's actions but its not so balck and white as it used to be.
I'm sure some mates have the 'cheap drunk' gene.
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If one reads the article below and then does a google search on the justice who gave the police a hard time, Pat O'shane, it really leaves the nature verses nurture conundrum up in the air.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/a...359604861.html
Prospector
http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/a...359604861.html
Prospector
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Now that we have digressed I was wondering how the Qantas Indigenous Cadet Scheme was going. Have there been any applications? Anyone on a cadet course? A serious query if anyone knows.
Justathought, the only hole I can see is that obtaining wealth for them is not that hard and they are not financially disadvantaged. The opposite actually. They still desire wealth (or more accurately just quick cash) to pay for their boom boxes and tea, they just don’t respect it because it keeps coming in every pay day. If the parents don’t have to go to work to get it, why should the kids. Why would any of us.
I do believe there is a solution – but no politician would stay elected to see it through. (or would they?)
Justathought, the only hole I can see is that obtaining wealth for them is not that hard and they are not financially disadvantaged. The opposite actually. They still desire wealth (or more accurately just quick cash) to pay for their boom boxes and tea, they just don’t respect it because it keeps coming in every pay day. If the parents don’t have to go to work to get it, why should the kids. Why would any of us.
I do believe there is a solution – but no politician would stay elected to see it through. (or would they?)
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Lookin down, I'm not sure about nature v's nurture but I think the reality is that both have an effect and one or the other is not neccesarily dominant.
I think that mimicking your parents behaviour is a basic survival instinct that all animals existing today have been very good at, the ones that weren't good at it never got to pass on their genes. A newborn is hard wired to copy their parents, it's how they get through to the stage of being self sufficient without getting eaten by a sabre tooth. Think about it, if the human child didn't mimmick their parents they would be extremely unusual and wouldn't learn at the incredible rate they do.So does that mimmicking behaviour stop at things like being cautious of other animals, sleeping in sheltered places, hunting techniques, personal hygene practices, language, social interaction within the family/tribe??? I doubt it, I think there is probably an instinctive urge to behave the same as your parents in just about every way. Why? Because it works, your parents are here, they are alive, they were successful at passing on their genes to you and that is all that matters, successfully passing on your genes, that is what drives every animal on the planet, they have triumphed where others failed in the most important and sole reason for existing. So why would you do anytrhing different? What your parents do has worked and you are living proof. I think you are hard wired to mimmick your parents as the most sure bet to be as successful as them.
Erin, I think there is a big difference between obtaining wealth and getting money. They often can "get money" but most have no idea how to make that money work for them and therby turn it into wealth. It makes no difference how much cash you get your hands on, if you don't put it to work for you it will disapear eventually. In my experience the average Port Keats chap will spend the money on things that will never return any rewards, they will simply cease to exist (beer) or become a liability (car) , they will never return rewards like say....a block of flats rented out. I don't think many of them have had anyone sit down and explain how money works and how it builds on itself if invested carefully.
Cheers for your points, its got me thinking. c ya.
I think that mimicking your parents behaviour is a basic survival instinct that all animals existing today have been very good at, the ones that weren't good at it never got to pass on their genes. A newborn is hard wired to copy their parents, it's how they get through to the stage of being self sufficient without getting eaten by a sabre tooth. Think about it, if the human child didn't mimmick their parents they would be extremely unusual and wouldn't learn at the incredible rate they do.So does that mimmicking behaviour stop at things like being cautious of other animals, sleeping in sheltered places, hunting techniques, personal hygene practices, language, social interaction within the family/tribe??? I doubt it, I think there is probably an instinctive urge to behave the same as your parents in just about every way. Why? Because it works, your parents are here, they are alive, they were successful at passing on their genes to you and that is all that matters, successfully passing on your genes, that is what drives every animal on the planet, they have triumphed where others failed in the most important and sole reason for existing. So why would you do anytrhing different? What your parents do has worked and you are living proof. I think you are hard wired to mimmick your parents as the most sure bet to be as successful as them.
Erin, I think there is a big difference between obtaining wealth and getting money. They often can "get money" but most have no idea how to make that money work for them and therby turn it into wealth. It makes no difference how much cash you get your hands on, if you don't put it to work for you it will disapear eventually. In my experience the average Port Keats chap will spend the money on things that will never return any rewards, they will simply cease to exist (beer) or become a liability (car) , they will never return rewards like say....a block of flats rented out. I don't think many of them have had anyone sit down and explain how money works and how it builds on itself if invested carefully.
Cheers for your points, its got me thinking. c ya.