be58 spiral dive recovery?
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be58 spiral dive recovery?
hi,
yes, it is written in the POH that the aircraft cannot recover from a spiral dive, but just wondering if there has been any cases where a BE58 baron recovered from one?
yes, it is written in the POH that the aircraft cannot recover from a spiral dive, but just wondering if there has been any cases where a BE58 baron recovered from one?
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Spiral dives or spins??
I remember reading something to that effect from when I did my BE58 endorsement, but with reference to spins rather than spiral dives.
Furthermore to posting a copy of the page, can someone explain to any extent why it supposedly can't be done?
If with reference to spins, is it purely to do with the lack of slipstream over the empennage compared to that of a S/E aircraft, or is there more to it?
520.
Furthermore to posting a copy of the page, can someone explain to any extent why it supposedly can't be done?
If with reference to spins, is it purely to do with the lack of slipstream over the empennage compared to that of a S/E aircraft, or is there more to it?
520.
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I can’t see why a spiral dive would be a problem unless there is insufficient height to recover. All we’re talking about is closing the throttles, rolling level then pulling out – without stressing the airframe beyond limitations. The aircraft is still flying, just not in the desired direction.
Someone give me a Baron and I’ll prove it to you.
Someone give me a Baron and I’ll prove it to you.
Our company operates Barons and I cant recall seeing that statement in the POH. 520 is right about the spin statement "I think'' but will have a look tomorrow during a quiet time in cruise.
The spiral dive to my knowledge is really in essence a steep descending turn ie controlled flight. UA recovery during renewals sees this manouevre in its early stages with alot of testing officers.
The spiral dive to my knowledge is really in essence a steep descending turn ie controlled flight. UA recovery during renewals sees this manouevre in its early stages with alot of testing officers.
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I'm told that the 58 was certificated to the first indication of stall ... appears that, if held in, it has a desire to flick and spin inverted .... this might be relevant to intentional spinning ? Can't speak from experience as I have not flown the model ...
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Erin,
I hope you never get an aircraft into a serious spiral dive as your recovery method will surely kill you and anyone unfortunate enough to be with you.
The correct method is to close the throttle/s, roll level and PUSH FORWARD. If you fail to push, and pull instead, the dynamics of flight will have you going ballistic.
The reason for 'pushing forward' is to counteract the natural tendancy for the aircraft to try to regain its trimmed airspeed.
EG: if you are in cruise and trimmed at 120 kts (obviously not in a Baron!) and you find yourself in a spiral dive at 180 kts as soon as you roll it level it will naturally try to regain 120 kts, ie, it will climb quite rapidly. If you assist the climb tendency by pulling you will either enter a high speed stall (NOT recommended), or, remove the wings via overload.
Back on topic; from memory all Baron drivers should avoid single engine stalls at all costs, this will result in an unrecoverable spin.
Stalls with both engines operating are no more dangerous than any other aircraft, spiral dives also no problem, except for 'why' you are in that situation in the first place.
BSB
I hope you never get an aircraft into a serious spiral dive as your recovery method will surely kill you and anyone unfortunate enough to be with you.
The correct method is to close the throttle/s, roll level and PUSH FORWARD. If you fail to push, and pull instead, the dynamics of flight will have you going ballistic.
The reason for 'pushing forward' is to counteract the natural tendancy for the aircraft to try to regain its trimmed airspeed.
EG: if you are in cruise and trimmed at 120 kts (obviously not in a Baron!) and you find yourself in a spiral dive at 180 kts as soon as you roll it level it will naturally try to regain 120 kts, ie, it will climb quite rapidly. If you assist the climb tendency by pulling you will either enter a high speed stall (NOT recommended), or, remove the wings via overload.
Back on topic; from memory all Baron drivers should avoid single engine stalls at all costs, this will result in an unrecoverable spin.
Stalls with both engines operating are no more dangerous than any other aircraft, spiral dives also no problem, except for 'why' you are in that situation in the first place.
BSB
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Blue Sky Baron
Now if it was Crusader, which was designed from a clean sheet of paper, you could pull accelerated stalls vertical or horizontal left or right engine, down wing or up wing slotted and the worst that would happen is, it would flop out straight and level.
Assymetrics can be handled feet on the floor and I would have no hesitation gving the keys to a non twin rated, competent C182 or up driver. Vmca where it should be waaay below the stalling speed.
Now about those reds do they sell anything decent in Brisvegas or are we going to have to import em.
Now if it was Crusader, which was designed from a clean sheet of paper, you could pull accelerated stalls vertical or horizontal left or right engine, down wing or up wing slotted and the worst that would happen is, it would flop out straight and level.
Assymetrics can be handled feet on the floor and I would have no hesitation gving the keys to a non twin rated, competent C182 or up driver. Vmca where it should be waaay below the stalling speed.
Now about those reds do they sell anything decent in Brisvegas or are we going to have to import em.
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BSB, I don't think he said anything about applying back-pressure on the control column. The term 'pulling out' of the dive is quite accurate, although as you state, in the normally trimmed situation you will not require much, if any back-pressure to regain straight and level attitude at the required rate.
In any case I don't think one would be overly concerned with whether they were pushing or pulling, they would simply use the controls as required to execute a smooth recovery to S & L.
In any case I don't think one would be overly concerned with whether they were pushing or pulling, they would simply use the controls as required to execute a smooth recovery to S & L.
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Gaunty
I guess thats what you get when you build a plane in an 'agricultural' factory. (Had my first flight in a Crusader as a pax a couple of weeks ago, and was quite impressed. Not bad for a Cessna! 
)
As for the reds in Brizvegas, they probably have some but the heathens will have them in the fridge!!!
Not long to go now.
BSB
)As for the reds in Brizvegas, they probably have some but the heathens will have them in the fridge!!!
Not long to go now.
BSB
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Pretty eh. 190 KTAS at 10,000 ft was to be pressurised to take advantage of the "flat rated" engines 200 plus kts, but it got caught up in the liabilities BS and and all piston engined production was stopped.
It was a joy to demonstrate you could hit the circuit downwind at 180kts bottom of descent with appropriate circuit power set select the gear and landing flap and hands OFF, NO trimming auto deceleration within the flap limits as it travels out, by the time you got to base everything is configured and speed at Vref no trimming required.
No ballooning, no waiting for speeds to bleed off for gear and flaps, you could sit behind ANYTHING clean on approach at their speed and still have heaps of time to get slowed for landing.
It was designed that way.
Silly Old Git
Back to Baron handling.
In the olden days in PNG a certain well known pilots endorsement on the Baron would include a full power 45 degree climb to bleed off speed below VMca followed by snapping a mixture closed.
If ya didnt sh*t ya pants after what happened next you passed the type rating
In the olden days in PNG a certain well known pilots endorsement on the Baron would include a full power 45 degree climb to bleed off speed below VMca followed by snapping a mixture closed.
If ya didnt sh*t ya pants after what happened next you passed the type rating
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Getting back to Overmars' original question, a sprial dive is an unstalled condition of flight, and so technically should be recoverable in any aircraft. I fly the baron full time, and have not seen any reference to a reluctance to recover from a spiral dive in the handbook, or any other texts that I have read.
I do know that there is a reference to the unknown spinning characteristics of the aircraft due to the fact that it was never spin tested. With reference to John_Tullamarine's comment about the aircraft spinning inverted, if positive 'g' is held during the stall recovery (in other words, if the c/c is not pushed forward excessively during the recovery), no aircraft will spin inverted.
The spin characteristics of the baron, although untested, would be fairly flat due to the Pro-spin characteristics of the aircraft, also found in most light twins. Flat spins, by their nature, are harder to recover from than a conventional spin. Flat spins can be entered through a miss-use of aileron, and / or power during a conventional spin, or the mass distribution through-out the aircraft. My recommendation. DON'T TRY IT, especially in a baron.
I do know that there is a reference to the unknown spinning characteristics of the aircraft due to the fact that it was never spin tested. With reference to John_Tullamarine's comment about the aircraft spinning inverted, if positive 'g' is held during the stall recovery (in other words, if the c/c is not pushed forward excessively during the recovery), no aircraft will spin inverted.
The spin characteristics of the baron, although untested, would be fairly flat due to the Pro-spin characteristics of the aircraft, also found in most light twins. Flat spins, by their nature, are harder to recover from than a conventional spin. Flat spins can be entered through a miss-use of aileron, and / or power during a conventional spin, or the mass distribution through-out the aircraft. My recommendation. DON'T TRY IT, especially in a baron.
Grandpa Aerotart
Ahhh tinpis they were the days....prolly the same bloke did that to me years after you(the guy who died in the last year in his C185 ex GKA?).
It wasn't a Vmca demo it was an (aggravated) assy stall demo...thanks to the altitude effecting the thrust and therefore the real Vmca being below Vs...but it sure was 'interesting'.
Don't remember recovery being a big deal as long as both engines were at idle....well one was idle and one was 'cut off'...as long as you don't consider upside down a big deal
It wasn't a Vmca demo it was an (aggravated) assy stall demo...thanks to the altitude effecting the thrust and therefore the real Vmca being below Vs...but it sure was 'interesting'.
Don't remember recovery being a big deal as long as both engines were at idle....well one was idle and one was 'cut off'...as long as you don't consider upside down a big deal
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Jerrym,
Only relating that which I was told .. by a very experienced TP instructor who had a military TP student hold the bird into the stall .. whereupon ...
Tale is from quite a few years ago so there is a very slight possibility that I have the model wrong .. but I don't think so.
Only relating that which I was told .. by a very experienced TP instructor who had a military TP student hold the bird into the stall .. whereupon ...
Tale is from quite a few years ago so there is a very slight possibility that I have the model wrong .. but I don't think so.