New IR Laws
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New IR Laws
I had a look, but could not find any reference to this elsewhere. Pilots are being unusually quiet on this.
Will it bring the rest of Australia in line with Aviation workplaces?
Will this allow airlines to accomplish what they did in 1989 as the norm?
Will this bring back the old painters and dockers strength in Unions?
I think yes, and this is a bad move for Australia. If you want to keep Australia up with the rest of the world, BUY AUSTRALIAN PRODUCTS, not cheap imports, or else we will see the people who cannot negotiate fall by the wayside and into minimum wage jobs for $4.00 an hour.
There now I feel much better
Dog
Will it bring the rest of Australia in line with Aviation workplaces?
Will this allow airlines to accomplish what they did in 1989 as the norm?
Will this bring back the old painters and dockers strength in Unions?
I think yes, and this is a bad move for Australia. If you want to keep Australia up with the rest of the world, BUY AUSTRALIAN PRODUCTS, not cheap imports, or else we will see the people who cannot negotiate fall by the wayside and into minimum wage jobs for $4.00 an hour.
There now I feel much better
Dog
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I am employed under the new IR AWA's Compared to my previous employer in the same trade, i am $200 a WEEK better off! and work a 4 day week. Annual leave is still the usual 2 weeks, sick leave, super are all the usual. not only that, we have a collectivly negotiated AWA. resulting in a 4% pay rise in 1 yr, and a $1000 chrissy bonus. with options to have it in your Super.
under the new IR, i am much better off.
under the new IR, i am much better off.
Grandpa Aerotart
And that may end up being a common experience among well educated, highly qualified professional employees...particularly those in shorter supply....but I get the strong feeling Howard is Americanising the Australian work place and this will be bad for many...it doesn't take a genius to see the complete lack of social responsibility in the US 'system'.
Just look at what they can do under Chapter 11 to peoples super schemes.
Just look at what they can do under Chapter 11 to peoples super schemes.
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All of us will be competing with 50 cents an hour, third world labour in about 5 to 10 years when all of this starts taking effect.
I only hope I will be around to stand alongside my children when we 're-distribute' the wealth back to who it belongs. And it will happen, history tells us this.
I only hope I will be around to stand alongside my children when we 're-distribute' the wealth back to who it belongs. And it will happen, history tells us this.
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Under Howards way I think you won't be collectively bargaining anything in the future, will be a $33.000 fine for that or just about anything else that suggests a group of employees meeting and talking about their wages or conditions. Just you and the Boss, and you better hope he's a kind one like me ....
cheers
cheers
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I have been under an IWA, or individual work agreement since arriving in OZ 4 years ago, it suits me because I am a career "contractor" or "consultant" if you prefer and I ply my "intellectual" trade on a contractual basis.
It works for me, but it has not been an easy road, it is open to abuse by management , but careful examination of the contractual terms can usually mitigate that risk.
I hasten to add, that this is a comment based on someone who is selling something that someone wants, and my negotiations are *usually (though not always) from a position of strength.
Chimbu is spot on once again, I have been very careful to ply my trade in "quality" and "blue" chip organisations whilst doing "quality" and "uniquely skilled" work, now the quotes are there as a perceptive description (for the benefit of the client and thus my rate), I have been doing this for almost 20 years, so its no big deal to me, I also know what the pricing rates are to replace me with a big-5 consultant, and I can live quite happily on half that.
However, It does occasionally goes pear shaped, primarily because of balance between family and work, I am always crystal clear that my family comes first, not negotiable. I have walked away from 2 x150K+ contracts in the last 3 years. If anyone , ever, hints at "commitment" to work vis a vis my young family, I walk................. cya! *** This option is not open to the unskilled and that is my issue ***
So where does that leave us, and what are my opnions on this ?
I don't think it is a good idea for everyone, (take note of my initial engagement, I always negotiate from a position of strength).
If I can go so far as to suggest it is a very bad Idea for "service" industries, and as a group, Pilots do not have any USP's (ie unique individual selling points, be that a skill, a talent or experience, collectively yes, its a skilled job, but the perception is of easy replacement based on supply/demand) I therefore think it is a bad idea for the majority.
The 14K 744 boys , and the niche 777, 738 boys won't have a problem yet, but overall it will reduce the ability to negotiate and protect your packages, for whatever unforseen circumstances may arise.
It is a stark reality, that the majority of people do not have options, and without options, you are at the mercy of teh structure that "management" wish to deploy, and that is not a comfortable place to be in - for anyone.
I will vote against it given a chance, as it does nothing to protect the vulnerable.
It works for me, but it has not been an easy road, it is open to abuse by management , but careful examination of the contractual terms can usually mitigate that risk.
I hasten to add, that this is a comment based on someone who is selling something that someone wants, and my negotiations are *usually (though not always) from a position of strength.
Chimbu is spot on once again, I have been very careful to ply my trade in "quality" and "blue" chip organisations whilst doing "quality" and "uniquely skilled" work, now the quotes are there as a perceptive description (for the benefit of the client and thus my rate), I have been doing this for almost 20 years, so its no big deal to me, I also know what the pricing rates are to replace me with a big-5 consultant, and I can live quite happily on half that.
However, It does occasionally goes pear shaped, primarily because of balance between family and work, I am always crystal clear that my family comes first, not negotiable. I have walked away from 2 x150K+ contracts in the last 3 years. If anyone , ever, hints at "commitment" to work vis a vis my young family, I walk................. cya! *** This option is not open to the unskilled and that is my issue ***
So where does that leave us, and what are my opnions on this ?
I don't think it is a good idea for everyone, (take note of my initial engagement, I always negotiate from a position of strength).
If I can go so far as to suggest it is a very bad Idea for "service" industries, and as a group, Pilots do not have any USP's (ie unique individual selling points, be that a skill, a talent or experience, collectively yes, its a skilled job, but the perception is of easy replacement based on supply/demand) I therefore think it is a bad idea for the majority.
The 14K 744 boys , and the niche 777, 738 boys won't have a problem yet, but overall it will reduce the ability to negotiate and protect your packages, for whatever unforseen circumstances may arise.
It is a stark reality, that the majority of people do not have options, and without options, you are at the mercy of teh structure that "management" wish to deploy, and that is not a comfortable place to be in - for anyone.
I will vote against it given a chance, as it does nothing to protect the vulnerable.
Last edited by 7gcbc; 15th Nov 2005 at 11:01.
Ultralights, Annual leave the standard 2 weeks?!? In my part of the world (QLD) 4 weeks for normal workers and 5 or 6 weeks for shift workers is the go.
In skilled work areas the new rules will be great, it's the general working class that will be screwed into the ground.
In skilled work areas the new rules will be great, it's the general working class that will be screwed into the ground.
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standard formula I use for hours/days based on FTE (full time equiv) utilisation is 1920 hours /8 hours a day= 240 working days a year.
240 + 104(weekends - ie 52*2) gives 344, - 365 = 21 days holidays = 4 weeks.
No account of public holidays, of which there are 7 odd.
Work any more than that and you are decreasing your hourly pay, and subsiding the company.
240 + 104(weekends - ie 52*2) gives 344, - 365 = 21 days holidays = 4 weeks.
No account of public holidays, of which there are 7 odd.
Work any more than that and you are decreasing your hourly pay, and subsiding the company.
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Well,
I am glad I am not alone in my thinking, not that it is from a superior position, as I can deal with management with comfort, but it is the less confident that will struggle to say " No, I am not happy with that arrangement" for fear of redundancy.
I think we must not let JH get away with this one. His arguement that we will fall by the wayside is baseless as long as we buy Australian Made / Owned products. That way the Australian companies will not have to compete with the sweat shops over seas.
Dog
I am glad I am not alone in my thinking, not that it is from a superior position, as I can deal with management with comfort, but it is the less confident that will struggle to say " No, I am not happy with that arrangement" for fear of redundancy.
I think we must not let JH get away with this one. His arguement that we will fall by the wayside is baseless as long as we buy Australian Made / Owned products. That way the Australian companies will not have to compete with the sweat shops over seas.
Dog
Dogimed
You state that you think "we should't let JH get away with this"... but how do you propose it be stopped?
There is simply no mechanism I can see to impede it.
Most workers are shrugging their shoulders at the moment because times are good and they can't see it affecting them.
We have all observed the 'race to the bottom" in GA and I suspect it will suddenly become more prevalent in many areas of Australian commerce and employment.
Ultralights I fear your attitude will be different in 5 years time.. and in the mean time, your attitude will be part of the problem.
Your boss may not want to screw you but what choice will he have when his competition don't share his scruples?
Remember Howard is a big fan of Ayn Rand and those of you who have read her ranting and raving will know there is no place for
"society" except as sycophants to Capitalists.
En-Rooter, I'm with you comrade. To the barricades - vive le revolution!
You state that you think "we should't let JH get away with this"... but how do you propose it be stopped?
There is simply no mechanism I can see to impede it.
Most workers are shrugging their shoulders at the moment because times are good and they can't see it affecting them.
We have all observed the 'race to the bottom" in GA and I suspect it will suddenly become more prevalent in many areas of Australian commerce and employment.
Ultralights I fear your attitude will be different in 5 years time.. and in the mean time, your attitude will be part of the problem.
Your boss may not want to screw you but what choice will he have when his competition don't share his scruples?
Remember Howard is a big fan of Ayn Rand and those of you who have read her ranting and raving will know there is no place for
"society" except as sycophants to Capitalists.
En-Rooter, I'm with you comrade. To the barricades - vive le revolution!
Grandpa Aerotart
Oh good...little johny is a Ayn Rand sycophant.
Seems to me Activism is another cute theory hatched in a vacuum like Fatigue 'Management' System and the like.
All well and good until life's realities and human nature intervene and completely subvert the cute theory.
She got this right though
Seems to me Activism is another cute theory hatched in a vacuum like Fatigue 'Management' System and the like.
All well and good until life's realities and human nature intervene and completely subvert the cute theory.
Since time immemorial and pre-industrial, 'greed' has been the accusation hurled at the rich by the concrete-bound illiterates who were unable to conceive of the source of wealth or of the motivation of those who produce it.
[On three of the rules governing the mechanics of compromise]
1. In any conflict between two men (or two groups) who hold the same basic principles, it is the more consistent one who wins.
2. In any collaborationbetween two men (or two groups) who hold different basic principles, it is the more evil or irrational one who wins.
3. When opposite basic principles are clearly and openly defined, it works to the advantage of the rational side; when they are not clearly defined, but are hidden or evaded, it works to the advantage of the irrational side.
-- Ayn Rand, "The Anatomy of Compromise," Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal
1. In any conflict between two men (or two groups) who hold the same basic principles, it is the more consistent one who wins.
2. In any collaborationbetween two men (or two groups) who hold different basic principles, it is the more evil or irrational one who wins.
3. When opposite basic principles are clearly and openly defined, it works to the advantage of the rational side; when they are not clearly defined, but are hidden or evaded, it works to the advantage of the irrational side.
-- Ayn Rand, "The Anatomy of Compromise," Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal
Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 16th Nov 2005 at 14:23.
Labor and the unions are predicting the end of civiliztion as we now know it, while others such as the Business Council of Australia are wringing their hands because the IR reforms don't go far enough.
The changes to the IR legislation are nowhere near as bold as those introduced by the Hawke/Keating Labor government and I've yet to see Buckets Beasley move to repeal those particular bits of legislation. The proposed reforms are of a very modest nature.
Howard trying to Americanise the labor market ? Absolutely, positvely not. The vulnerable at risk ? They always are. It's called wellfare.
Unionised workers have dropped to around 17.5% of the total workforce, while the Labor parties primary vote hovers around an all time low of about 34%. With numbers like that it seems the rest of the country has well and truly moved on and it's the Unions and Labor that are stuck in some sort of idealogical time warp.
The sun will still come up tommorrow as it will every other day.
Yawn.
The changes to the IR legislation are nowhere near as bold as those introduced by the Hawke/Keating Labor government and I've yet to see Buckets Beasley move to repeal those particular bits of legislation. The proposed reforms are of a very modest nature.
Howard trying to Americanise the labor market ? Absolutely, positvely not. The vulnerable at risk ? They always are. It's called wellfare.
Unionised workers have dropped to around 17.5% of the total workforce, while the Labor parties primary vote hovers around an all time low of about 34%. With numbers like that it seems the rest of the country has well and truly moved on and it's the Unions and Labor that are stuck in some sort of idealogical time warp.
The sun will still come up tommorrow as it will every other day.
Yawn.
Last edited by gassed budgie; 17th Nov 2005 at 03:23.
