Takeoff Technique For Cessna's
True
Unlike Australia Tinpis - most every airport is sealed in the States. So you may scoff, young man, but it is true.
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yeah thats right- and most runways over there are 13000ft long...what do you call a small strip 10000ft?...I guess its like your movies too- The only country in the world that can squel their wheels on gravel...IM WITH TINNY ON THIS ONE
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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so you may scoff young man...
You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.
On the face of it - it does look stupid. I'll grant you that.
But it is stipulated in the charter agreement. Which is OK for Phoenix due to the high number of sealed airports. I have seen that places like Montana are well endowed with grass and dirt strips and I would assume the flying schools wouldn't have the luxury of mandating this rule, and I would assume that they would spend a little more on maintenance as well.
As to mr Pis and his age... with the age difference described one can only wonder how he gets that walking frame in the cockpit.
But it is stipulated in the charter agreement. Which is OK for Phoenix due to the high number of sealed airports. I have seen that places like Montana are well endowed with grass and dirt strips and I would assume the flying schools wouldn't have the luxury of mandating this rule, and I would assume that they would spend a little more on maintenance as well.
As to mr Pis and his age... with the age difference described one can only wonder how he gets that walking frame in the cockpit.
try applying full aileron into wind- as soon as that wing lifts the aircraft will fly...I use this method all the time in 185s and 206s for remote strip work...try it and see...
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Flying A cessna 152 is simple especially for the take off.
Apply full into wind aileron relaxing as you go
Keep it straight on the runway
at 40 knots relax the pressure on the nose wheel (pull back)
at 54 knots lift off
Apply full into wind aileron relaxing as you go
Keep it straight on the runway
at 40 knots relax the pressure on the nose wheel (pull back)
at 54 knots lift off
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Barit 1 My C152 POH says Max Angle =55 Kts
-In regard to the original post about calling "40Knots" I have no idea - not taught at my school. - however C152 'Stall Speed CLEAN = 40 kts' maybe that has some bearing on it, but I don't beileve teaching youngsters heavy metal ops theory is a good thing. Teach them to fly a 152 or whatever. Better to leave airline training to the airline training captains. Horses for courses..
And as 'c152 pilot' says taking some weight off the nosewheel at 40 is in some ways similar to the original question, he may not call '40' but he is checking the ASI to see when to act.
-In regard to the original post about calling "40Knots" I have no idea - not taught at my school. - however C152 'Stall Speed CLEAN = 40 kts' maybe that has some bearing on it, but I don't beileve teaching youngsters heavy metal ops theory is a good thing. Teach them to fly a 152 or whatever. Better to leave airline training to the airline training captains. Horses for courses..
And as 'c152 pilot' says taking some weight off the nosewheel at 40 is in some ways similar to the original question, he may not call '40' but he is checking the ASI to see when to act.
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Full aileron into wind for take off? What rubbish is that. Unless the crosswind is near max limit then no aileron needed and even at max crosswind, just a smidgin to keep the wings level.
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A37575,
What you say is true. You only have to apply full aileron when the crosswind is near the maximum. If you are flying a C152 the maximum crosswind is only 15knots.
Where i fly there is only one runway and 9 out of 10 times we have a 15 + knot crosswind.
Makes it great fun for the newbies when they do their first circuit lesson.
What you say is true. You only have to apply full aileron when the crosswind is near the maximum. If you are flying a C152 the maximum crosswind is only 15knots.
Where i fly there is only one runway and 9 out of 10 times we have a 15 + knot crosswind.
Makes it great fun for the newbies when they do their first circuit lesson.
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It is a good idea with any reasonable degree of crosswind to start with full aileron and slowly wind it of as the airspeed increases. The reasons for this are twofold - there's the obvious protection against a gust of wind lifting the windward wing, but also the often overlooked factor of using aileron drag (adverse yaw) to help keep straight. With anything more than about 10 knots across I always start the takeoff roll with full aileron deflection, reducing at rotate to just about neutral as I neutralise the rudder.
You quite simply will NOT manage the same maximum crosswind with no use of aileron.
LB - I don't think it would be advisable to use that rather extreme technique on a soft surface. To use it on a hard surface is just plain backwards.
You quite simply will NOT manage the same maximum crosswind with no use of aileron.
LB - I don't think it would be advisable to use that rather extreme technique on a soft surface. To use it on a hard surface is just plain backwards.
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The only thing rubbish A37575 was your post. Cloud cutter said it. I suppose you have some fangdangled way (perhaps a slide rule or markings on the control colomn) to set just the right amount of aileron deflection depending on the steady and never changing crosswind component. You seem like a chap who has no 'feel' for an aircraft. Ever had problems drifting of the centreline immediately after rotate by chance or feel like you're fighting with the aircraft on the ground?
Think you are also forgetting that pilots, and particularly students are creatures of habit and it is prudent for them especially to have a consistent technique to apply in ALL crosswinds.
I'd imagine you've never operated an aeroplane in more than 10 knots of cross and haven't taxied around much in a tail dragger either.
P.s It (15 knots for the 152) is a maximum DEMONSTRATED crosswind component for a short field landing as per the flight manual at MAUW, min approach speed and one of average (rough old PPL's) pilot skill at the controls. It is not a limit for aircraft of these weights.
Think you are also forgetting that pilots, and particularly students are creatures of habit and it is prudent for them especially to have a consistent technique to apply in ALL crosswinds.
I'd imagine you've never operated an aeroplane in more than 10 knots of cross and haven't taxied around much in a tail dragger either.
P.s It (15 knots for the 152) is a maximum DEMONSTRATED crosswind component for a short field landing as per the flight manual at MAUW, min approach speed and one of average (rough old PPL's) pilot skill at the controls. It is not a limit for aircraft of these weights.
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mr Garrison,
As I read your original question, I can see that a principle is applied that can give you an idea of performance.
The principle: At half of your take-off roll you should have 2/3
of your lift-off speed (Vr).
The thing is that you need a pre-determined Airspeed Check-point to assess this properly.
Next to that you need to know the point where you can still safely abort the take-off without the danger of an overrun.
Normally that is about half of the TODA but several factors can change that...
Anyhow what we use is, if during a take-off roll we don't get the
2/3 of lift off speed, it is indicating something is wrong,
either not enough engine power, or the softness of the field is a factor and we will abort the take-off if we are before the "Safe Abort-Point"
Indeed this is for short (&soft) field operations.
The danger is when you would continue with not having reached the e.g. 40 kts that you end up in the trees...
For a long tarmac runway there is normally not a problem, but I still use my speed-check to not get airborne with something wrong...
Hope this helps,
Herb
As I read your original question, I can see that a principle is applied that can give you an idea of performance.
The principle: At half of your take-off roll you should have 2/3
of your lift-off speed (Vr).
The thing is that you need a pre-determined Airspeed Check-point to assess this properly.
Next to that you need to know the point where you can still safely abort the take-off without the danger of an overrun.
Normally that is about half of the TODA but several factors can change that...
Anyhow what we use is, if during a take-off roll we don't get the
2/3 of lift off speed, it is indicating something is wrong,
either not enough engine power, or the softness of the field is a factor and we will abort the take-off if we are before the "Safe Abort-Point"
Indeed this is for short (&soft) field operations.
The danger is when you would continue with not having reached the e.g. 40 kts that you end up in the trees...
For a long tarmac runway there is normally not a problem, but I still use my speed-check to not get airborne with something wrong...
Hope this helps,
Herb
Silly Old Git
I guess slide rule techniques all turn to ****e when the going gets rough.
Witness the A340 "landing" film at Melbourne the other day.
I reckon in the last 200 feet of that balls up there was absolutely no one in control.
mack..mack..spelling
Witness the A340 "landing" film at Melbourne the other day.
I reckon in the last 200 feet of that balls up there was absolutely no one in control.
mack..mack..spelling
Last edited by tinpis; 2nd Nov 2005 at 05:52.
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Cessna 152 Pilot. What sort of flying school instructor would even think of starting off a new student on circuits with any sort of crosswind? That is not only a highly undesirable introduction to first circuits but a financial rip-off to the student.
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Re: the aileron deflection I talked about- this is only ONE method I use when getting off remote airstrips ie river beds, beaches and strips around 280- 300metres...this is the typr eof flying my job requires and has been for 8 years...its just one method that a 38000hour bush pilot showed me and I find it works. Most aeroclubs will show you the corrects techniques or at least the basics. As for Mr 4spool- get your sorry arse into a 185 and find some small rough airstrips and test the theory you pillock...Lead Balloon- c185 pilot and chimbu- thankyou for your inputs---its all about learnig..the moment you think you know it all you will wind up in a box...nice to know LB that you did some PNG time...
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A37575,
As i said where i fly there is only one runway and 9 out of 10 times there is a massive crosswind, so we don't have much choice, about which runway.
For me it is very useful learning to fly in the crosswind, and yes my first lesson was in a strong wind, but i don't see it as a waste of money at all, becuase i have learnt to fly in strong crosswinds, when there is no wind or straight up and down the runway i find it easy as pie.
I feel sorry for some pilots who fly in big airports, and when the wind changes so does the runway. Makes it hard to learn how to land in a crosswind.
I know for a fact that several traning organizations send planes and pilots up to us just to fly in a nice crosswind.
As i said where i fly there is only one runway and 9 out of 10 times there is a massive crosswind, so we don't have much choice, about which runway.
For me it is very useful learning to fly in the crosswind, and yes my first lesson was in a strong wind, but i don't see it as a waste of money at all, becuase i have learnt to fly in strong crosswinds, when there is no wind or straight up and down the runway i find it easy as pie.
I feel sorry for some pilots who fly in big airports, and when the wind changes so does the runway. Makes it hard to learn how to land in a crosswind.
I know for a fact that several traning organizations send planes and pilots up to us just to fly in a nice crosswind.