Aerotropics?
Check Attitude
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Queensland, Australia
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Bashinabout
quote
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As for getting bogged or misidentifying a station strip, GET OVER IT!
On an anonymous forum you are happy to beat your chests, but how many of you guys have seen these strips?
And how many of you would bet your left leg that after some rain you wouldn’t get bogged too?
Or misidentify a strip? Dry versus wet looks a whole lot different from the air……
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Mate! This contract is required to be operated as a Regular Public Transport service, not the Paris to Dakar rally!!
Mis-identifying strips:
RPT ops, CAR 218, Route and Aerodrome Qualifications, is legislated to prevent this happening.
Getting bogged:Again this is RPT, not Charter.
A strip condition report should be available from the reporting officer (nominated person at property).
CAAP 92 spells out most of the requirements of ALA operators serviced by RPT.
And you're missing a point somewhere:
The previous operator (20+ years running the service) lost their Chief Pilot approval AND their RPT AOC,
after getting bogged on a strip that the reporting officer certified as serviceable.
And after correctly notifying the regulators, and getting a permit to fly out.
Maybe a perverted action by the previous regime of CASA Nth Qld,
but thankfully the miscreants are now contemplating their respective alternative futures, outside of CASA.
Do not confuse Charter and RPT, although the new CASR's will see Charter being required to raise standards.
An RPT passenger paying for a seat on an airline has a right to certain expectations.
One of these is an expectation that the trip from A to B will be conducted with the highest degree of safety and free of incident.
CAR 217, CAR 218 and CAO 82 spell out most of the requirements to ensure this.
A charter pilot, due to the ad hoc nature of charter, deals with a higher degree of risk with ALA operations.
A charter pilot may self brief and self assess all aspects of his/her flight.
An RPT pilot will operate to SOP's, be route and aerodrome qualified
and have anccess to an infrastructure that ensures that the whole operation is minimum risk.
Yes, we all have the opportunity for getting bogged in charter ops,
I have been, as have many readers,but that same opportunity must be eliminated or greatly diminished in RPT.
It's a scheduled service, if there is doubt about a strip, that is sufficient reason to not land there.
Both CASA and any legal team would have a field day with you if,
on an RPT service, you chose to operate into a strip about which you had doubts and an incident resulted.
quote
__________________________________________________
As for getting bogged or misidentifying a station strip, GET OVER IT!
On an anonymous forum you are happy to beat your chests, but how many of you guys have seen these strips?
And how many of you would bet your left leg that after some rain you wouldn’t get bogged too?
Or misidentify a strip? Dry versus wet looks a whole lot different from the air……
___________________________________________________
Mate! This contract is required to be operated as a Regular Public Transport service, not the Paris to Dakar rally!!
Mis-identifying strips:
RPT ops, CAR 218, Route and Aerodrome Qualifications, is legislated to prevent this happening.
Getting bogged:Again this is RPT, not Charter.
A strip condition report should be available from the reporting officer (nominated person at property).
CAAP 92 spells out most of the requirements of ALA operators serviced by RPT.
And you're missing a point somewhere:
The previous operator (20+ years running the service) lost their Chief Pilot approval AND their RPT AOC,
after getting bogged on a strip that the reporting officer certified as serviceable.
And after correctly notifying the regulators, and getting a permit to fly out.
Maybe a perverted action by the previous regime of CASA Nth Qld,
but thankfully the miscreants are now contemplating their respective alternative futures, outside of CASA.
Do not confuse Charter and RPT, although the new CASR's will see Charter being required to raise standards.
An RPT passenger paying for a seat on an airline has a right to certain expectations.
One of these is an expectation that the trip from A to B will be conducted with the highest degree of safety and free of incident.
CAR 217, CAR 218 and CAO 82 spell out most of the requirements to ensure this.
A charter pilot, due to the ad hoc nature of charter, deals with a higher degree of risk with ALA operations.
A charter pilot may self brief and self assess all aspects of his/her flight.
An RPT pilot will operate to SOP's, be route and aerodrome qualified
and have anccess to an infrastructure that ensures that the whole operation is minimum risk.
Yes, we all have the opportunity for getting bogged in charter ops,
I have been, as have many readers,but that same opportunity must be eliminated or greatly diminished in RPT.
It's a scheduled service, if there is doubt about a strip, that is sufficient reason to not land there.
Both CASA and any legal team would have a field day with you if,
on an RPT service, you chose to operate into a strip about which you had doubts and an incident resulted.
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Caloundra. Qld. Australia
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I’ve known RL since he was a little 
that came to me one day and said Yesterday I couldn’t even spell PILOT, now I is one…..Bloody nice guy and he will undoubtedly ring me and politely abuse me for my indiscretions here. I’ve seen a good number of the so called pilots that have come to him looking for a job with promises of what they will and won’t do for RL. I even had one guy call me and ask me to put in a good word for him with RL as he needed a job to tide him over whilst waiting for bigger and better things. Yeahh, rite!!!!!!!!!
What I’m reading here is the usual BS from a minimal few who for whatever reason couldn’t or wouldn’t make it with AT, so let’s bag the sh!t out of RL and his Staff so that we cause as much hassle as we can. AT may not be QF, Deathstar or MTA, but in comparison to a number of previous operators in that part of the world I've had dealings with, AT are streets ahead. But as someone else alluded to earlier, Sydney's North Shore it aint.........
Hey Mainframe which particular guise are you referring to when you say previous operator. From my experience with them, aircraft were sh!t and they had trouble keeping staff for whatever reason and I don’t think you would want to dig too deep to come up with reasons other than getting an aircraft bogged as to why action was taken against them.
You see, RL is too much of a gentleman to bag other operators, and according to many, a gentleman is the last thing I am.
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"Second Place is First Place for Losers"
that came to me one day and said Yesterday I couldn’t even spell PILOT, now I is one…..Bloody nice guy and he will undoubtedly ring me and politely abuse me for my indiscretions here. I’ve seen a good number of the so called pilots that have come to him looking for a job with promises of what they will and won’t do for RL. I even had one guy call me and ask me to put in a good word for him with RL as he needed a job to tide him over whilst waiting for bigger and better things. Yeahh, rite!!!!!!!!! What I’m reading here is the usual BS from a minimal few who for whatever reason couldn’t or wouldn’t make it with AT, so let’s bag the sh!t out of RL and his Staff so that we cause as much hassle as we can. AT may not be QF, Deathstar or MTA, but in comparison to a number of previous operators in that part of the world I've had dealings with, AT are streets ahead. But as someone else alluded to earlier, Sydney's North Shore it aint.........
Hey Mainframe which particular guise are you referring to when you say previous operator. From my experience with them, aircraft were sh!t and they had trouble keeping staff for whatever reason and I don’t think you would want to dig too deep to come up with reasons other than getting an aircraft bogged as to why action was taken against them.
You see, RL is too much of a gentleman to bag other operators, and according to many, a gentleman is the last thing I am.
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"Second Place is First Place for Losers"
Amazing how pilots will still stand up and defend an organisation that pays it's pilots basically less than a untrained check out operator at Coles. Imagine you had to pay back Maccas or Coles back for their checkout or sundae machine training. I've also heard from blokes that AT isn't a bad company, except for that reason alone. Amazing what we'll all do to fly a bloody twin!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth
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Puff,
If they were paid the AFAP award or similar, they'd find something else to moan about.
What can possibly be drawn from all of this, if you accept the money, thats your stupid fault, if you do not honour the agreement you make, you will suffer.
What of the plight of a relatively experienced pilot who has a family and a house to pay off, applying to an operator, that wants more money than the QLD minimum award ( say inline with the AFAP ), some dweeb will do it for less ( ohh ohh I just needed to get my 500 multi command ). We all know who gets the job.
So the operator logically chooses the cheaper option, which ultimately turns out to be cheaper in the very very short term, the junior pilot gives two days notice and runs off into the sunset to find QANTAS throwing his application in the bin when his references are checked.
Those who are whinging in this case, have, as a demagraphic, caused the problem.
Sticking a feather in your bum does not make you a Chicken ( Read: if you want to be treated like a professional, act like one ).
If they were paid the AFAP award or similar, they'd find something else to moan about.
What can possibly be drawn from all of this, if you accept the money, thats your stupid fault, if you do not honour the agreement you make, you will suffer.
What of the plight of a relatively experienced pilot who has a family and a house to pay off, applying to an operator, that wants more money than the QLD minimum award ( say inline with the AFAP ), some dweeb will do it for less ( ohh ohh I just needed to get my 500 multi command ). We all know who gets the job.
So the operator logically chooses the cheaper option, which ultimately turns out to be cheaper in the very very short term, the junior pilot gives two days notice and runs off into the sunset to find QANTAS throwing his application in the bin when his references are checked.
Those who are whinging in this case, have, as a demagraphic, caused the problem.
Sticking a feather in your bum does not make you a Chicken ( Read: if you want to be treated like a professional, act like one ).
Last edited by Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower; 12th Sep 2005 at 04:50.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: WX at our destination is 32 deg with some bkn cld, but we'll try to have them fixed before we arrive
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Seems to me to be a vicious cycle.
I can see the problem from both sides -
I can understand a pilot who is being paid peanuts moving on to something bigger and better when the opportunity arises (why wouldn't you?)
I can also understand an operator not wishing to invest money in training people that won't stick around for the investment to pay off.
So long as there is a surplus of pilots in this country and the small demand for GA services remains, things won't change.
I can see the problem from both sides -
I can understand a pilot who is being paid peanuts moving on to something bigger and better when the opportunity arises (why wouldn't you?)
I can also understand an operator not wishing to invest money in training people that won't stick around for the investment to pay off.
So long as there is a surplus of pilots in this country and the small demand for GA services remains, things won't change.
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Most pilots based in the Straits will have a whinge. I know I did. It's bloody hard work! I agree that alot of pilots lack integrity on the loyalty front, however you cant be critical of a pilot that wants to see his conditions raised. Pilots in GA have been getting shafted in certain areas for along time. Just because its the status quo isnt a defence. AT paid pilots poorly when I worked up there. I know this because I know about bloody 10 of them. Yes most of them think RL is a top bloke. Didnt stop them from TRYING to get their conditions raised.
Even the mighty Skytrans has dropped a few conditions for their Torres based crew. Keep up the fight for your conditions!
Ultimatley if you accept a job up in the Straits you should realise that life will be tough for a while. The knowledge and experience you gain will be with you for a lifetime. I sure as hell dont miss the Straits but Im bloody glad I went.
Also you should be able to turn a Bongo around in 6.3 minutes. If you cant then you havent been late for 4 jobs whilst being rained on, yelled at with sweat dripping into your eyes whilst you chase escaped mudcrabs around inside a filthy terminal filled with 3 go shows, 100kgs overload and a hangover.
All stations sassie. Thanks for coming.
Even the mighty Skytrans has dropped a few conditions for their Torres based crew. Keep up the fight for your conditions!
Ultimatley if you accept a job up in the Straits you should realise that life will be tough for a while. The knowledge and experience you gain will be with you for a lifetime. I sure as hell dont miss the Straits but Im bloody glad I went.
Also you should be able to turn a Bongo around in 6.3 minutes. If you cant then you havent been late for 4 jobs whilst being rained on, yelled at with sweat dripping into your eyes whilst you chase escaped mudcrabs around inside a filthy terminal filled with 3 go shows, 100kgs overload and a hangover.
All stations sassie. Thanks for coming.
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: Queensland
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Torres Straits is a great "advanced" learning ground. Turn arounds are not all that hard to acheive and where else will you get that boost to what could be a long and good career in aviation. So stop whinging and just get on with it. You see how the ex PNG pilots reminisce over PNG (some of them still there!). Well Torres Straits is a bit like that to.
Yes I have flown there and for Aero Tropics as well as with a regional that was there before them. I had my complaints at the time to, we all do.
While I was there one younger pilot with A/T had to be virtually talked into having a go at the big stuff as he said he wasn't in a hurry and was enjoying himself where he was. Needless to say he "walked" in the job with the major airline and I am sure it was based on his experience gained, largely in Torres Straits with A/T. And his attitude!!
RL, as I remember was justly proud of his pilots acheivement and that bloke wasn't the only one to go that path.
Yes I have flown there and for Aero Tropics as well as with a regional that was there before them. I had my complaints at the time to, we all do.
While I was there one younger pilot with A/T had to be virtually talked into having a go at the big stuff as he said he wasn't in a hurry and was enjoying himself where he was. Needless to say he "walked" in the job with the major airline and I am sure it was based on his experience gained, largely in Torres Straits with A/T. And his attitude!!
RL, as I remember was justly proud of his pilots acheivement and that bloke wasn't the only one to go that path.
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Ski Guru
North Shore,
"The Oaks", Neutral Bay
or up towards Chatswood, the "Great western"
No wonder you're homesick, who wouldn't be.
Pity the football is no longer at Nth Sydney,
arguably the next best footy ground, outside of Ballymore, for atmosphere and ambience,
but then that's what the Nth Shore is all about, quality of life.
As for the the other stuff further north, well NAC Darwin finally came to the party,
so if there really is an under award situation that pilots willingly sign up for,
maybe it will sort itself out as it did in Darwin.
And yes, aspiring pilot's are little different to Saturday night suitors,
promise anything to get what they want, then chew their arm off at the elbow early in the morning to escape.
Nothing new about either scenario over the years, is there?
A good operator should really have the skills to screen,
and if they are prepared to pay for quality they'll probably get it.
Right now it seems that both sides are screwing each other.
Both sides need to work towards a win - win situation, fair pay and conditions, fair commitment and loyalty.
There are at least two other GA operators who endorse this philosophy up that way, it works.
Almost every CPL is aspiring to airlines, why else are they trying to get experience under their belt?
Remember, it's already been said here,
the airlines often contact your last (or current) employer.
They are, after all, interested in how you contribute and perform,
remember that when you break your agreement.
Think about what your boss may say about you to them,
based on how you reciprocated to the opportunity you were given to get to the airlines.
Now back to the Oaks for a steak under that magnificent big tree.
North Shore,
"The Oaks", Neutral Bay
or up towards Chatswood, the "Great western"
No wonder you're homesick, who wouldn't be.
Pity the football is no longer at Nth Sydney,
arguably the next best footy ground, outside of Ballymore, for atmosphere and ambience,
but then that's what the Nth Shore is all about, quality of life.
As for the the other stuff further north, well NAC Darwin finally came to the party,
so if there really is an under award situation that pilots willingly sign up for,
maybe it will sort itself out as it did in Darwin.
And yes, aspiring pilot's are little different to Saturday night suitors,
promise anything to get what they want, then chew their arm off at the elbow early in the morning to escape.
Nothing new about either scenario over the years, is there?
A good operator should really have the skills to screen,
and if they are prepared to pay for quality they'll probably get it.
Right now it seems that both sides are screwing each other.
Both sides need to work towards a win - win situation, fair pay and conditions, fair commitment and loyalty.
There are at least two other GA operators who endorse this philosophy up that way, it works.
Almost every CPL is aspiring to airlines, why else are they trying to get experience under their belt?
Remember, it's already been said here,
the airlines often contact your last (or current) employer.
They are, after all, interested in how you contribute and perform,
remember that when you break your agreement.
Think about what your boss may say about you to them,
based on how you reciprocated to the opportunity you were given to get to the airlines.
Now back to the Oaks for a steak under that magnificent big tree.
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Most pilots based in the Straits will have a whinge
Torres Straits is a great "advanced" learning ground.
I sure as hell dont miss the Straits
Join Date: Sep 1998
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DEAFSTAR, you made me laugh with your ALL stations sassie line. Any news of wildman?still doing the SUNBUS run from Yorkies?I hope hes back flying providing some entertainment for young Pilots.......er chester....tim tam.....midsy.....wheres the fuel cap for the bongo!
Greetings from the big sandpit!FM
Greetings from the big sandpit!FM
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Bullwinkle
G'day, yep, a bit pedantic! Sorry I missed you on your last foray up north.
Didn't Crappy teach you anything while at KOW?
The term "Strait" and the term "Straits" are generally interchangeable.
A Strait is a narrow but navigable body of water, many of which exist in the Torres Straits.
You will recall the major straight between Hammond Island and reef 1, but there are straits between reef 1,2,3,
and near the Adolphus group, and near Maer (Murray Island) in the Eastern Straits,
hence the term usually and correctly takes the plural form.
There are the Straits of Magellan, the Straits of Singapore, and Dire Straits.
The Straits of Torres were first recorded as navigated by Luis de Torres in 1606 but were not named until 1792,
by Alexander Dalrymple, on Matthew Flinders trip around Oz.
quote:
"The Torres Straits are nearly thirty-four leagues wide;
but they are obstructed by an innumerable quantity of islands, islets, breakers, and rocks,
that make its navigation almost impracticable;"
Anyway thought police and spelling police are not usually welcome on these pages,
instead we usually tolerate the grammatically challenged,
the syntax challenged,
and those who were not taught that correct spelling may be important.
Each to his own, some talk of the Kimberlies, others prefer The Kimberley, be it East or West.
The Torres Strait, as a demographic term, is a great place to see the straits!!
CS.
G'day, yep, a bit pedantic! Sorry I missed you on your last foray up north.
Didn't Crappy teach you anything while at KOW?
The term "Strait" and the term "Straits" are generally interchangeable.
A Strait is a narrow but navigable body of water, many of which exist in the Torres Straits.
You will recall the major straight between Hammond Island and reef 1, but there are straits between reef 1,2,3,
and near the Adolphus group, and near Maer (Murray Island) in the Eastern Straits,
hence the term usually and correctly takes the plural form.
There are the Straits of Magellan, the Straits of Singapore, and Dire Straits.
The Straits of Torres were first recorded as navigated by Luis de Torres in 1606 but were not named until 1792,
by Alexander Dalrymple, on Matthew Flinders trip around Oz.
quote:
"The Torres Straits are nearly thirty-four leagues wide;
but they are obstructed by an innumerable quantity of islands, islets, breakers, and rocks,
that make its navigation almost impracticable;"
Anyway thought police and spelling police are not usually welcome on these pages,
instead we usually tolerate the grammatically challenged,
the syntax challenged,
and those who were not taught that correct spelling may be important.
Each to his own, some talk of the Kimberlies, others prefer The Kimberley, be it East or West.
The Torres Strait, as a demographic term, is a great place to see the straits!!
CS.
Join Date: Sep 2002
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I should just stop being pedantic really and get a life I spose.
VB is treating me well. Still have lots of great memories of the STRAITS.
Plenty of guys here who did time in the straits way before our time. Some loved it, some were not so keen, but all have some story or other to tell.
Hope you guys are all travelling well.
"You no Gateway customer, You Wongai customer"
VB is treating me well. Still have lots of great memories of the STRAITS.
Plenty of guys here who did time in the straits way before our time. Some loved it, some were not so keen, but all have some story or other to tell.
Hope you guys are all travelling well.
"You no Gateway customer, You Wongai customer"
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I worked for Troppos for more than the 12 months, have since been way out of contact with internet etc till recently (while this thread developed I have been in Africa), and I am disappointed that someone has made statements on this thread with a title that could easily be mistaken as me, and the bgger hasn’t even had the balls to tell me.
I have requested the PPRuNe moderator remove the post, but it looks like that is not part of the rules of engagement here.
For Bullwinkle: We have met, your claims are untrue. You have a close acquaintance in a senior position with the company, and I understand your loyalty. You are senior to me in this industry and I would like to believe you are exposed to a much more intensive safety culture. If you have allegations, concerns or advice: please contact me and discuss them with me personally (you could have easily found my details, or just email me direct thru my profile details).
This is a public forum, and so for matters relating to the title and content of this thread (particularly while individuals choose to remain anonymous): I prefer to make a positive / constructive contribution, or remain silent. Many aircrew have a vested interest in continuing to operate with this company, and most of what’s being discussed here should be either
Dealt with via the appropriate safety or dispute procedure,
Or (where unresolved and safety related) in a Confidential Report, with sound facts.
Cheers
Dougs
I have requested the PPRuNe moderator remove the post, but it looks like that is not part of the rules of engagement here.
For Bullwinkle: We have met, your claims are untrue. You have a close acquaintance in a senior position with the company, and I understand your loyalty. You are senior to me in this industry and I would like to believe you are exposed to a much more intensive safety culture. If you have allegations, concerns or advice: please contact me and discuss them with me personally (you could have easily found my details, or just email me direct thru my profile details).
This is a public forum, and so for matters relating to the title and content of this thread (particularly while individuals choose to remain anonymous): I prefer to make a positive / constructive contribution, or remain silent. Many aircrew have a vested interest in continuing to operate with this company, and most of what’s being discussed here should be either
Dealt with via the appropriate safety or dispute procedure,
Or (where unresolved and safety related) in a Confidential Report, with sound facts.
Cheers
Dougs
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If that's not you, then obviously I was talking about somebody else
I was merely responding to the thread as I saw fit with the facts at the time.
You need to take up your concerns with the imposter who has decided to abuse your nickname.
Thus the downside to an anonymous forum
I was merely responding to the thread as I saw fit with the facts at the time.
You need to take up your concerns with the imposter who has decided to abuse your nickname.
Thus the downside to an anonymous forum
Join Date: Mar 2001
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As we've seen above there are more than one "Dougs" that has worked for Troppo's.
One was in 2000 and another in 2005.
Heard today that "Dougs" from 2005 and a computer operator were fatally injured in a C210 Accident in the Emirates somewhere whilst on Survey, Condolences to the families of the two.
One was in 2000 and another in 2005.
Heard today that "Dougs" from 2005 and a computer operator were fatally injured in a C210 Accident in the Emirates somewhere whilst on Survey, Condolences to the families of the two.