Instrument Rating or Instructor Rating?
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Instrument Rating or Instructor Rating?
I’m nearing the end of my CPL training and wondering what would be more beneficial and helpful for me to get a job?
If there have been other topics similar to this one feel free to post the link.
Cheers Flick
If there have been other topics similar to this one feel free to post the link.
Cheers Flick
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Don't under any circumstances consider doing an instrument rating before you do your instructors!!!
There are no jobs whatsoever out there for fresh CPLs with IR ratings..one of my biggest regrets was that I listened to Flying School "salesmen" and got my IR instead of an instructors rating..
..unless your Dad buys you a twin..you WILL NOT be able to keep instrument current
There are no jobs whatsoever out there for fresh CPLs with IR ratings..one of my biggest regrets was that I listened to Flying School "salesmen" and got my IR instead of an instructors rating..
..unless your Dad buys you a twin..you WILL NOT be able to keep instrument current
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I agree with Mattyj;
Except to add - Don't do an Instructor Rating unless you really want to teach/instruct.
Might I suggest you at least get your ATPL subjects out of the way first because once you are out there working GA - the ATPL is bloody difficult to make time for.
IF you don't want to Instruct, at least go NVFR and work for a short while meatbombing or VFR single work then come back for IFR with 500-1000 hours under your belt.
Except to add - Don't do an Instructor Rating unless you really want to teach/instruct.
Might I suggest you at least get your ATPL subjects out of the way first because once you are out there working GA - the ATPL is bloody difficult to make time for.
IF you don't want to Instruct, at least go NVFR and work for a short while meatbombing or VFR single work then come back for IFR with 500-1000 hours under your belt.
Well I think the opposite. Do the Instrument Rating first!
I did my instrument rating straight after I did my commercial. I got a job after the instrument rating and never had to do the instructors rating. After becoming the ops manager of the GA/airline that hired me I would never go and hire someone who had no instrument rating because they are of no use to you until they have it. Having an insructors rating is next to useless when you are having to fly pax through cloud.
Having said all that if the operators you are going to be targeting for jobs doesn't do any IFR work then maybe it is not so critical. But if you are out there and the wx turns to ****, then you will have the confidence to contact atc and get and IFR clearance to where you need to go. Bottom line be safe.
I did my instrument rating straight after I did my commercial. I got a job after the instrument rating and never had to do the instructors rating. After becoming the ops manager of the GA/airline that hired me I would never go and hire someone who had no instrument rating because they are of no use to you until they have it. Having an insructors rating is next to useless when you are having to fly pax through cloud.
Having said all that if the operators you are going to be targeting for jobs doesn't do any IFR work then maybe it is not so critical. But if you are out there and the wx turns to ****, then you will have the confidence to contact atc and get and IFR clearance to where you need to go. Bottom line be safe.
An instrument rating is more than a stepping stone to a job, it's knowledge and skills that give you a better idea of what's going on around you in the airspace, and more importantly may get you out of the sh1t in marginal Wx.
We all know that VFR are not supposed to fly in less than VMC, but the line between acceptable and unacceptable conditions can become blurred, particularly when the pressure is on to get the job done - I don't condone this, I just say it sometimes happens, and to know that you're not likely to spear in if you get caught out is a valuable thing.
Once you pass the IREX you've got it for good, and even if you can't afford to stay current, if you've successfully done an instrument rating once, you can get yourself back up to speed relatively quickly when the time comes to apply for a job that requires one.
If you don't particularly want to instruct, I don't think it's a great idea to venture down that path.
We all know that VFR are not supposed to fly in less than VMC, but the line between acceptable and unacceptable conditions can become blurred, particularly when the pressure is on to get the job done - I don't condone this, I just say it sometimes happens, and to know that you're not likely to spear in if you get caught out is a valuable thing.
Once you pass the IREX you've got it for good, and even if you can't afford to stay current, if you've successfully done an instrument rating once, you can get yourself back up to speed relatively quickly when the time comes to apply for a job that requires one.
If you don't particularly want to instruct, I don't think it's a great idea to venture down that path.
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How bout doing an instructors rating and while working as one take advantage of getting a staff discount (shop around and I think youll find some half descent deals).
If your looking at flying in the main centres or in the land of the long white cloud youll almost certainly be going down the instructing avenue so do the IR once working. If youve saved the cash youll have more than enough time to do your IR while working as a grade3/C-cat
If your looking at flying in the main centres or in the land of the long white cloud youll almost certainly be going down the instructing avenue so do the IR once working. If youve saved the cash youll have more than enough time to do your IR while working as a grade3/C-cat
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Once again I would like to highlight the importance of only giving instructing a go if you really think you are suited and happy with the idea of teaching. The students out there need competent, cheerful instructors who put effort into their work.
Having said that, if you do manage to get an instructor's rating first and get work as an instructor you will then be able to claim the expense of your IR when tax time comes. You MUST be working as a pilot though before you can claim training related expenses such as an IR. You could be surprised at how much you can get back in your tax return
Having said that, if you do manage to get an instructor's rating first and get work as an instructor you will then be able to claim the expense of your IR when tax time comes. You MUST be working as a pilot though before you can claim training related expenses such as an IR. You could be surprised at how much you can get back in your tax return
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I strongly agree with mattyj.
Might be different in OZ but here in NZ you would be EXTREMELY lucky to get an IF job as a fresh CPL/IFR - anywhere.
I have gone down the track of getting CPL and instructor rating and no instrument. Atleast there are a few instructing jobs around here especially with the summer season comming up.
I have a VFR rating in a twin and slowly build up twin time by going for a flight once a month or two. Will get a instrument rating when I need it and in an aircraft at instructor rates.
Might be different in OZ but here in NZ you would be EXTREMELY lucky to get an IF job as a fresh CPL/IFR - anywhere.
I have gone down the track of getting CPL and instructor rating and no instrument. Atleast there are a few instructing jobs around here especially with the summer season comming up.
I have a VFR rating in a twin and slowly build up twin time by going for a flight once a month or two. Will get a instrument rating when I need it and in an aircraft at instructor rates.
That is interesting there is such a difference between NZ and Aust re: Instrument Rating.
One thing not to get caught out on (in Australia at least) is when you start looking to get out of piston GA you can come across a requirement to have anywhere from 3 to 5 renewals as part of the recruitment minimums (S.A, Pearl, RFDS etc).
I know it caught me, but at least I have been able to claim it back from the ATO, something you cannot do if you are yet to be employed in the industry.
It is a catch 22, however I'd get it earlier rather than later, just like these damned ATPL subjects.....
OpsN
One thing not to get caught out on (in Australia at least) is when you start looking to get out of piston GA you can come across a requirement to have anywhere from 3 to 5 renewals as part of the recruitment minimums (S.A, Pearl, RFDS etc).
I know it caught me, but at least I have been able to claim it back from the ATO, something you cannot do if you are yet to be employed in the industry.
It is a catch 22, however I'd get it earlier rather than later, just like these damned ATPL subjects.....
OpsN
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OMG
Do the math....
You need 200hrs TT before you can take your CPL Flight Test unless daddy is paying for a fully intergrated 150hr course (which in this case ignor the following)
You have to do 20hrs min in the air for an IF rating (exculuding the multi endorsement time) soooooo if you are paying for or scrounging for those last few hours to get the CPL ....
GO AND DO IT
don't be a dumb ass all your life
You need 200hrs TT before you can take your CPL Flight Test unless daddy is paying for a fully intergrated 150hr course (which in this case ignor the following)
You have to do 20hrs min in the air for an IF rating (exculuding the multi endorsement time) soooooo if you are paying for or scrounging for those last few hours to get the CPL ....
GO AND DO IT
don't be a dumb ass all your life
Last edited by FO Cokebottle; 22nd Jul 2005 at 01:14.
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Get the Instrument rating
My personal advice is to go and get the instrument rating. Yes, its hard to keep current, but thats not the point. At some stage you may have an opportunity to get a Multi job, but if you then have to go out and do the IFR rating, it'll take you 2 months on average, and thats if you have all the money saved up. To get current, its 2 flights and a check, and that can be done in 3 days. Once you have it, its far easier to get it current than to have to try and do it from scratch. The way things are moving at the moment in NZ, you'd be mad not to get it done.
Nosey
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The question should be
"What do you want to do with the Rating? Work for an Airline or Instruct?"
An airline/GA operator won't give you a job without a Instrument Rating. A school won't give you a job with an Instructor Rating.
Sure the Instructor Rating will build your hours but so will working in the GA field. The first thing to do is build hours, either Meatbombing, Towing, small operator or instructing. The next step is the twin job. MEIFR is required. The time between the first single job to first twin job can be used to gain the IR.
For me, get the IR first. Sure it might laspe in currency but it's easier to get the currency back than trying to train for it. Money is the issue.
Good Luck
Nosey - good to see you're still alive.
"What do you want to do with the Rating? Work for an Airline or Instruct?"
An airline/GA operator won't give you a job without a Instrument Rating. A school won't give you a job with an Instructor Rating.
Sure the Instructor Rating will build your hours but so will working in the GA field. The first thing to do is build hours, either Meatbombing, Towing, small operator or instructing. The next step is the twin job. MEIFR is required. The time between the first single job to first twin job can be used to gain the IR.
For me, get the IR first. Sure it might laspe in currency but it's easier to get the currency back than trying to train for it. Money is the issue.
Good Luck
Nosey - good to see you're still alive.
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Additionally I would have to agree with Arm Out The Windows comments, even when we do get that first job up north/west that might only be day VFR, it can be handy for the operator to know that if the wx does close in you can still bring the A/C home.
I knew a low hour non-current inst rated pilot who believed this bullsh%t and ended up in a spiral dive, in cloud, in a day VFR C-206.
I'ts been my Experience that the only thing more dangerous than a low hour non-current inst rated pilot, is a low hour instructor.
An airline/GA operator won't give you a job without a Instrument Rating.
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there is another way...
If you are only wanting to get numbers into your logbook, then why not get a decent paying job outside of aviation. With the money that you save, go flying on the weekends.
However, if letters mean more than numbers in your log book, boring holes in the sky may not be what you are after.
ECT
However, if letters mean more than numbers in your log book, boring holes in the sky may not be what you are after.
ECT
I'd like to stress that my comments about the usefulness of an instrument rating for someone caught out in bad Wx are certainly not meant to indicate that I think that trying to fly a non-IFR machine in IMC is something you would ever plan to do.
However, it's well documented that many accidents have happened when VFR pilots have lost visual reference in deteriorating conditions.
I know this is a contentious point, but it's my belief that having held an instrument rating would be a possible life saver in this circumstance (if the machine had an attitude indicator - otherwise, probably not).
I reckon it's far better to fly a controlled turn onto a suitable escape heading on instruments than to, for example, try to descend out of the cloud and wind up flying into the ground or in a spiral dive, as many have done before.
Just a clarification; getting off the topic I know!
However, it's well documented that many accidents have happened when VFR pilots have lost visual reference in deteriorating conditions.
I know this is a contentious point, but it's my belief that having held an instrument rating would be a possible life saver in this circumstance (if the machine had an attitude indicator - otherwise, probably not).
I reckon it's far better to fly a controlled turn onto a suitable escape heading on instruments than to, for example, try to descend out of the cloud and wind up flying into the ground or in a spiral dive, as many have done before.
Just a clarification; getting off the topic I know!
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I hear what your saying , but you're far better off learning when to turn around than push a bad situation until you have no escape route.
A lot of low hour guys get lulled into a false sense of security with a non current IR and end up in cloud, often at low level, in a VFR machine, banked over, lose the scan, and its all over in a second.
If you fly with a plan, know where you are with ref to high/low terrain and have a visual escape route if you're flying around terrain and bad wx then you'll do much better than if you punch into cloud with a sudden massive increase in stress load.
A lot of low hour guys get lulled into a false sense of security with a non current IR and end up in cloud, often at low level, in a VFR machine, banked over, lose the scan, and its all over in a second.
If you fly with a plan, know where you are with ref to high/low terrain and have a visual escape route if you're flying around terrain and bad wx then you'll do much better than if you punch into cloud with a sudden massive increase in stress load.
Agreed; the avoidance of the situation by a good and timely decision is the best way and must be drummed in from the start of training.
As an aside, reminds me of an amazing first-person crash comic story I read once about a group of Aussie spitfires that were launching from Daru to Vanimo or something like that, where the bloke was in formation in cloud, lost the leader and then went through some absolutely wild times trying to control the machine (in cloud, amongst the hills, hardly any instrument time and not much instrumentation either), almost unbelievably surviving to tell the tale.
Now I'm really hijacking the thread!
As an aside, reminds me of an amazing first-person crash comic story I read once about a group of Aussie spitfires that were launching from Daru to Vanimo or something like that, where the bloke was in formation in cloud, lost the leader and then went through some absolutely wild times trying to control the machine (in cloud, amongst the hills, hardly any instrument time and not much instrumentation either), almost unbelievably surviving to tell the tale.
Now I'm really hijacking the thread!
