What is it actually that you don't lie about the EBA?
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Annulas Filler
A lame on level 3 probably has at least another 25years, ( some even more) in the industry so $1800 X 25 = $45,000 and thats not taking into account any compound increases with any future rises. As has been pointed out, if and when he progresses through the grades the additional 1% would be of greater value.
There are those that only see what is in there hand next payday, and those that encourage a short sighted approach to wage growth, " if you vote yes you can start spending your back pay next week"
Annulas if the extra 1% is so meaningless then the miserly 3% isn't much better, lets not take any increase and keep the status quo.
If you were sitting on the table from the other side you would know that companies budget for pay rises and usually budget for more than is given. They always expect that the next wage increase will be the one that might bowl them over, so a good financial management team will be prepared.
But guess what?
After their negotiations they always put it back into their pockets because we never push hard enough. I don't have 25 years left before I retire, but I would like to see us grow some balls before then and give it at least one try. I have always believed that we have had the ability to make a significant stand, and I thought it was going to happen about 20 years ago at Ansett, but we backed down. Years later I was having drinks with a retired manager from thatv dispute, and he told me that they had budget for a substantial increase but were more surprised than us when we chose not to push that little bit harder.
Money is nice but ask any athlete, to win a hard faught race can be reward enough, and believe me if you let this chance go bye there may never be another opportunity.
A grade 3 LAME on say $60000pa is promised a rise of $1800pa, and is gambling on an extra $600pa gross increase to vote 'No'.
There are those that only see what is in there hand next payday, and those that encourage a short sighted approach to wage growth, " if you vote yes you can start spending your back pay next week"
Annulas if the extra 1% is so meaningless then the miserly 3% isn't much better, lets not take any increase and keep the status quo.
If you were sitting on the table from the other side you would know that companies budget for pay rises and usually budget for more than is given. They always expect that the next wage increase will be the one that might bowl them over, so a good financial management team will be prepared.
But guess what?
After their negotiations they always put it back into their pockets because we never push hard enough. I don't have 25 years left before I retire, but I would like to see us grow some balls before then and give it at least one try. I have always believed that we have had the ability to make a significant stand, and I thought it was going to happen about 20 years ago at Ansett, but we backed down. Years later I was having drinks with a retired manager from thatv dispute, and he told me that they had budget for a substantial increase but were more surprised than us when we chose not to push that little bit harder.
Money is nice but ask any athlete, to win a hard faught race can be reward enough, and believe me if you let this chance go bye there may never be another opportunity.
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Annulas if the extra 1% is so meaningless then the miserly 3% isn't much better, lets not take any increase and keep the status quo.
Orville the $1800pa is what the company is willing to give you right now. It is the extra 1% or $600pa that you will be fighting for if you decide to vote 'NO'. Lets be thankful a grade 3 LAME can still progress through the grades every 4 years. His 3%pa wage rise turns into over 5% when you add in the regrading.
Not bad for someone whose maths needs some work.
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The maths you are doing needs quite a bit of work.
You can't count the re-grading as further additions to his salary. This is payment for experience and additional licences. Go back 30 years and the lames got wage rises and as they gained licences additional payments.
All professions have a system of progression throught he ranks. When an F/O becomes a Captain he moves up in position but his base rises remain at the level his union negotiates.
The licence payments are reduced since the pay structure. They are capped as well but yes we may go up every 4 years. For every lame who progresses through his career to the higher levels and then retire, a new lame starts again at level 3.
The company are replacing high level retiring lames with the much cheaper lower level guy. Do some maths on the saving they make there Mr Filler.
You can't count the re-grading as further additions to his salary. This is payment for experience and additional licences. Go back 30 years and the lames got wage rises and as they gained licences additional payments.
All professions have a system of progression throught he ranks. When an F/O becomes a Captain he moves up in position but his base rises remain at the level his union negotiates.
The licence payments are reduced since the pay structure. They are capped as well but yes we may go up every 4 years. For every lame who progresses through his career to the higher levels and then retire, a new lame starts again at level 3.
The company are replacing high level retiring lames with the much cheaper lower level guy. Do some maths on the saving they make there Mr Filler.
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Thankyou Orville and Fordran,
If my maths was better I could have explained it, but as is it's hopeless I'm glad you explained it for me.
I hope you understand it Anus Filler because if that maths lesson doesn't wake you up to what's at stake then I don't know what will.
What's your view on this Crystal Mariner?
Keeping in mind that each time the Lames have accepted only 3% the flow on effect has been big dollars for the next 25 years.
(is it LAME by name or by Nature)
And when is this push to bring the Level 3 in line (should be higher) than a level 13 ame going to happen?
Sure as sh!t aint happening this eba.
If my maths was better I could have explained it, but as is it's hopeless I'm glad you explained it for me.
I hope you understand it Anus Filler because if that maths lesson doesn't wake you up to what's at stake then I don't know what will.
What's your view on this Crystal Mariner?
Keeping in mind that each time the Lames have accepted only 3% the flow on effect has been big dollars for the next 25 years.
(is it LAME by name or by Nature)
And when is this push to bring the Level 3 in line (should be higher) than a level 13 ame going to happen?
Sure as sh!t aint happening this eba.
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You guys have got to be kidding. Whether your pay increases by EBA percentage increases or by gaining another grade, it equates to a pay rise and must be accounted for in the company budget as a cost.
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you must be joking anus,that increase in grade is for experience gained and knowledge gained.Not to maintain your current standard of living.
As you get older in life anus you hope to better your standard of living and your families and that comes with becoming better at your job and becoming senior.My regrades are there to encourage me to remain at Qantas and climb some sort of carrer ladder.
Not suck up as yourself,that is not dignified nor is it a true carrer path.
As you get older in life anus you hope to better your standard of living and your families and that comes with becoming better at your job and becoming senior.My regrades are there to encourage me to remain at Qantas and climb some sort of carrer ladder.
Not suck up as yourself,that is not dignified nor is it a true carrer path.
Last edited by sys 4; 10th Jun 2005 at 21:56.
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You guys have got to be kidding. Whether your pay increases by EBA percentage increases or by gaining another grade, it equates to a pay rise and must be accounted for in the company budget as a cost.
The company accounts for LAMEs going up levels. They also account for level 10, 11 and 12 LAMEs retiring and being replaced by a level 3. Maybe you can go speak to the ALAEA accountants for a further explanation.
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Turbo 5B,
Maybe you need to budget better!
The masked goatrider,
Regardless of whether the company accounts for this rise or not it is still a rise that is afforded to most LAME's and therefore a cost to the company. It is also a rise that is given to you on a platter every 4 years up to level 8 irrespective of any training. Hence 5 unrestricted rises over a 20 year period guaranteed no questions asked.
Maybe you need to budget better!
The masked goatrider,
Regardless of whether the company accounts for this rise or not it is still a rise that is afforded to most LAME's and therefore a cost to the company. It is also a rise that is given to you on a platter every 4 years up to level 8 irrespective of any training. Hence 5 unrestricted rises over a 20 year period guaranteed no questions asked.
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Crystal your right, we will get get a payrise "given to you on a platter every 4 years up to level 8 irrespective of any training."
Most large companies paying award wages also have a pay scale that reflects years of service and still manage to pay 4-6%.
Telstra made the paper because they are going to go on strike because they're only being offered 2.5%. I bet they get more than that or they will strike yet we are going to meekly accept 3% with barely a whimper!!
I am ashamed at times how poorly led we are and how gutless the memership is at times!!
Most large companies paying award wages also have a pay scale that reflects years of service and still manage to pay 4-6%.
Telstra made the paper because they are going to go on strike because they're only being offered 2.5%. I bet they get more than that or they will strike yet we are going to meekly accept 3% with barely a whimper!!
I am ashamed at times how poorly led we are and how gutless the memership is at times!!
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I would still like to point out that a level 3 Lame certifying for 744 and engine is paid less than a level 13 avionics ame.
It must be nice to have the money without the full responsibility.
And by the way we don\'t even know what the company would have offered us if we put on a higher duty ban and a secondment ban.
Strike action might not even be required to achieve a reasonable outcome.
What a shame that the tw@ts on the executive pulled the pin just as we were applying the pressure.
It must be nice to have the money without the full responsibility.
And by the way we don\'t even know what the company would have offered us if we put on a higher duty ban and a secondment ban.
Strike action might not even be required to achieve a reasonable outcome.
What a shame that the tw@ts on the executive pulled the pin just as we were applying the pressure.
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Turbo 5B,
I see It did not stop you from becoming a LAME so as you could join the dissy heights of the elite earners.
Had you stayed a AME you would have been at the height of your career but you chose to become a LAME so you could earn more.
So don't come and whinge on this site about how hard done by you are.
Maybe you ticked the wrong box when you joined the company or were not eligable to become and Avionics AME. Thats not our fault.
Remember that level 3 LAMEs only make up about 10% of the company's LAMEs.
Grow up and wait your turn buddy!
I see It did not stop you from becoming a LAME so as you could join the dissy heights of the elite earners.
Had you stayed a AME you would have been at the height of your career but you chose to become a LAME so you could earn more.
So don't come and whinge on this site about how hard done by you are.
Maybe you ticked the wrong box when you joined the company or were not eligable to become and Avionics AME. Thats not our fault.
Remember that level 3 LAMEs only make up about 10% of the company's LAMEs.
Grow up and wait your turn buddy!
wit