What is it actually that you don't lie about the EBA?
 

After many weeks of spleen venting, regurgitation, sphincter twitching and bowel rumblings let us just consolidate our feelings towards this EBA.

Think long and hard all of you and be realistic about what you post.

What is it in the EBA that you actually dislike or does a dishonour to you?

Does it jeopardise your future?

Does it not remunerate you enough?

Does it not secure your future?

Is it not fair in the current economic climate?

Does it disadvantage you?

Do you not earn enough under the current pay structure?

Would the public be sympathetic, if you took industrial action and the company started to publicise that its engineers earn in excess of $100,000.00 per year? When only 3% of the population earns more than 125,000.00 per year.

Do you really feel hard done?

Is your job one of hard toil?

Is the company you work for difficult?

Do you not have job satisfaction?

Is you work environment uncomfortable?

Do you think that their are many others out in the real world that do better than you?

Now remember I said look deep inside yourself and answer honestly.

do you earn 50k base per yr as a lame with 15yrs industry experience.



did your boss give himself a 66% pay rise.


did your union allow your work force to be split into 2 different buisness's.


did they(the union) allow you to have no redundencey if you are sold off.


did the union allow you a say in the neg at any time.


did they allow a mass meeting so you could let your work mates in other areas know how you fell about these changes without the union consulting you and your cost center.



did your local exec member lie at the exec meeting telling the rest of the exec that your cost center was happy with the company offer,when they were NOT.


and finally do you think this offer is reasonable considering record profits made year after year

Lies - your thread title says it all.

Thanks for the best example of a freudian slip that I have seen in a long time :)

You said it CM

Most honest thing you've stated.

What I don't like about it is that we have all been brainwashed into thinking that all we will ever get is 3 % with a few goddies attached for the rest of our lives


I haven't heard of a single pay agreement that has been reported in the newspapers that has got less thanQF employees. They have all got 4-6% or more. All this while QF has earnt record profits from our labour(it wasn't all GD's supreme management).

Having said this I will be voting yes because our illustrious union leaders are recommending this package and QF will not cave in now that they have done this. Our executive have no fight left in them!!

I would love to see a 4 % increase just so people can believe that it can be done. I believe we deserve it but the financial diffference is minimal and if we were to fight now after lifting our bans and get something as meagre as this it would be a pyhrric victory.

My apologies for the typo. It was meant to read,

"What is it actually that you don't like about the EBA"?

Ok so I made some peoples day!

Small things amuse small minds!:ok:

Right.
Main points.
The major lack of consultation with Heavy Maintenance.
The O/T Bank was pushed through without even a discussion about how it would be run if it were to be accepted.
On what advice was it deemed to be the best model?
What was it compared with?
Did Heavy Maintenance even want it?
The executive lied to the members. There is no excuse for that.
The different rates for tail payments.
What is Qantas's agenda?
Executive answer...we were not sure what Keith Clark was on about so we accepted the reduction in payment periods anyway.

As a level 3 lame I received no benefit from the 3 point training bonus last eba so my wage is below what is should have been.
An effort should have been made to rectify this.
I am not only pushing this from my position but for any new lames coming into the system. We use the same technology we should be paid for it.
A top paid avionics ame gets more than a level 3 lame, but without the responsibility.

No it doesn't secure my future. How could it?
As an a/f engineer, yes my job is hard toil. And most of the H/M eleco's toil hard as well.

If the company started to publicise that most lames earn more than 100k a year I would be happy to show them my payslip and point out the 2 weekends in three and the afternoon shifts and public holidays I work and still not get anywhere near that.
(I think it's time you took a reality check.
And that's for a start.

Who are you Chris Corrigan? He tried this crap over the wharf dispute. They kept reffering to a crane driver who earnt $90,000 a year. It didn't create public anger in fact the dispute was one of the most successful in Australia's industrial relations history. Thousands of people lined the wharves when the coppers marched in and most of them weren't dockers.

You sound like a top union official. And an even better bloke.

How much do each of the blokes in the Federal Executive top positions earn ie Pres,sec,trustee's etc?
Just curious.

Turbo 5B,
"How much do each of the blokes in the Federal Executive top positions earn ie Pres,sec,trustee's etc?
Just curious."

From the alaea?

The sound EBA verus ABC

No, CM, from Qantas.
What I'm trying to establish is, are they the people on 100k a year plus?
What level do they have in the company?
Do they represent the full spectrum of lames employed at Qantas?

Can anyone tell me why 3% is the iniversally accepted pay increase for QF while everyone else earns 4% and more.

I know CPI is around that but we are constantly changing work practices to improve productivity(lean sigma, no man transits, 1 person pushbacks etc).

Why can't we share in the productivity increase that our flexible labour provides instead of giving it all to GD, MJ and QF.

Because that is the benchmark set by Qantas.
It is our duty to smash that benchmark to free up our earning power and be liberated from Dixons brave new world.

ahh the great loop forward

My problem is that for a man that prides himself in his ability to speak so eloquently, you must have an alter ego to have made such a mistake. there is some one inside of you that wants to expose the truth.

Now is the time.

I think this may be the reason the executive has tried to restrain your postings on forums and speaking in meetings. Any police interrogator will tell you, if you can keep the suspect talking long enough the truth will eventually come out.

Hangar 9,
It is obvious to me that you have been watching too many police dramas on the TV. You should get out more.

Turbo 5B,
I think from my understanding, that the people on the exec do in fact represent a wide spectrum of the LAME population.

KID Quality,
Not worth an answer.

Fordran,
And what came out of that dispute? The current industrial law we now live by!

:ok: :ok:

Turbo 5B,
The voluntary overitme bank was modeled on the Brisbane concept, which I might add most of Heavy Maintenance voted in. You yourself probably voted it in for your Brisbane brothers. What are you trying to say. Good enough for them but not for me?

How did the exec lie to you? Do you mean you did not like what they said?

The tail payments was a request by heavy maintenance to allow for the future of heavy maintenance and probably your job.

The 3 points were in fact in EBA 5. If you were not employed by the company at that time then it is not the unions fault. An effort was made to recify this but the company would not buy it.

The union has tried to address the anomoly between the top AME and the grade 3 LAME. The company reply to this is that it has no problems getting AME\'s to become LAME\'s so why should it address it.

I feel that your future is well secured, otherwise you would sek alternative employment. Or is you family not worth it?

I am sure that you would be happy to display your payslip, but the company would find many others to display that would make yours insignificant.

I have taken a reality check and that is why I speak as I do.



:ok:

Pullock,
Pull your head in.:ok:

Sys 4,
You must be a new employee of the company. Either that or you have taken your time to become licenced. Either way no fault of the company or the union.

No. No-one got a 66% payrise. The board merely asked the shareholders to approve a 66% increase to the amount allowed for the non executive directors. To my knowledge they have not received this amount.

No. Had the union allowed for 2 different EBA\'s, which the company would have loved, then I would have agreed with you. The union has always fought to maintian its members under ! EBA.

No. The redundancy provisions are as they were prior to this EBA.

Yes. Infact the union allowed its members to comment on the document that it endorsed. As far as I know the results of this were 50 / 50 therefore the exec endorsed it. Notices were issued after each and every EBA negotiation meeting and members were free to comment.

As far as i am concerned mass meeting never have nor will they ever be constructive. They are just a venue for a minority to vent their spleens and influence and intimidate others.

I can not answer this question because I have no information one way or the other. I can say thought, that I see no sence in in doing so especially if it were to effect him.

The offer is reasonable in view of the fact that it is the same as everybody else got.

Sys 4 get over it and get on with your life.

:ok:

Why can't we share in the productivity increase that our flexible labour provides instead of giving it all to GD, MJ and QF?

Could be scary for some, would you be willing to give money back when you don't reach the reqd target. Could open a can of worm that we don't really want to see.

Who knows maybe in the new industrial laws that will be here soon, they might be able to do it without a change in the EBA.

Then again maybe that is why they put such a contraversial EBA out there. We all bicker about it, then vote it down. Proceed with an industrial campaign that only achieves to both put the public against us & endanger our jobs. Qantas then implements the new laws to their full entent and we are all on some sort of casual employment contract where we work for 6 month terms.

Who knows what Mr Howard is going to bring to the table, wonder if Mr Dixon knows this as I have heard he has been a frequent visitor to Canberra in the past month.

The productivty increases I'm talking about have already been provided yet we have only received pay increases in line with inflation or less over the last 6 years. We should share in the productivity increases not simply give all the benefit to QF.

All other professions and jobs have been receiving pay increases of 4% or more over the last 6years so we are effectivley devaluing our jobs relative to all others by about 1-2% each year.

OK,so there was SARS and 9/11 crisis which wreaked havoc and all employees came to the party but with QF posting record profits I think the time has come to start getting pay increases in line with the rest of the community.

We need to arrest the slow erosion of our pay. Its only 1-2% each year, which seems minor but if this EBA is voted in then it will be happening for the last 8 years(near enoeugh 10% less in real terms relative to other jobs).

How much longer will it go on!!

Just because QF insists on 3% doesn't mean its set in stone or thet we should meekly accept it

You will probably find that the actual package equates to more than 4% cost to the company when you add all the other costs like quota increases etc etc. So as a matter of fact you are actually getting on average more than 3%. You may say thats all right if you are the one amongst the quotas but the alternative is individual contracts where pay increases could vary considerably without any extras.