Dornier 228-212
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Caloundra, QLD, Australia
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Well, I did hear a while ago that AusSAR were about to lease a DO228 to be based in Darwin as a Tier One SAR aircraft. That would suggest that Pearl Aviation would be the company using it.
Begs belief that a government agency would lease an aircraft for SAR that was an orphan in this neck of the woods. On the other hand, why am I not surprised!!??
Begs belief that a government agency would lease an aircraft for SAR that was an orphan in this neck of the woods. On the other hand, why am I not surprised!!??
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Australia
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Dornier Ops
I believe that some of the flights currently operated by the Shrikes will be replaced by the Dornier. Such as the Saturday morning flights for the dive boat which I think operate into Lockhart River these days.
AFD
AFD
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Dornier Update
Just spoke to a friend of mine who still works at GAM and UJD is at Essendon getting a new coat of paint at the moment. It is also getting a new interior and CVR and other equipment fitted. It will be Cairns based and is expected to arrive up there in early August. Nobody seems to know what work it will be doing exactly, but my source believes it will be available for passenger and freight charter and when required will be used for parachute operations.
Thats all I know
AFD
Thats all I know
AFD
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Sorry Guys,
This operation wont be getting off the ground so to speak (over water ops etc)
Delta...........don't go offering jobs that don't exist. Bad form old chum........very bad form
This operation wont be getting off the ground so to speak (over water ops etc)
Delta...........don't go offering jobs that don't exist. Bad form old chum........very bad form
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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I know what you mean bigfella5. But we've just hit a serious delay as the aircraft is still under negotiations to be bought. It doesn't mean the ops is not gonna start. The sellers are playing games with us. We need a certain model of the Dornier and not just what is available on the market or like what was in Japan. We need the aircraft to have a -10 engines. Most the aircraft being sold have the -5. Not enough power.
We are now looking at the one in France while waiting for the other one in Asia. If only we can use the Twin Otter, the Bandit, or the Chieftain the company would be operating by this time. But these aeroplanes do not have the range like what the DO228-212 can offer. With the new CASA ruling on alternates for over-water ops, we have no choice but to pick this model as we cannot use an island as an alternate but to go back to the mainland in case we don't go visual. The 212 model can fly in and come out without the need for refueling and can do STOL.
And worse Dornier does not make this model anymore, so you can imagine the competition in the market as it is very efficient.
We have to resort to bribing people just to sell us the damn plane.
As the ad says, it won't happen overnight but it will happen.
So, standby. AOC is already in place, we will just add the aircraft when it gets here. YSBK will be its initial home but will move to YWLM in a few months time.
D6
We are now looking at the one in France while waiting for the other one in Asia. If only we can use the Twin Otter, the Bandit, or the Chieftain the company would be operating by this time. But these aeroplanes do not have the range like what the DO228-212 can offer. With the new CASA ruling on alternates for over-water ops, we have no choice but to pick this model as we cannot use an island as an alternate but to go back to the mainland in case we don't go visual. The 212 model can fly in and come out without the need for refueling and can do STOL.
And worse Dornier does not make this model anymore, so you can imagine the competition in the market as it is very efficient.
We have to resort to bribing people just to sell us the damn plane.
As the ad says, it won't happen overnight but it will happen.
So, standby. AOC is already in place, we will just add the aircraft when it gets here. YSBK will be its initial home but will move to YWLM in a few months time.
D6
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: East Coast
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Hey Deltasix,
You sound like the ex-owner of Heron Airlines? He always wanted the 228 for LHI/NFI ops, and from what you've written here it really does sound like you are planning LHI/NFI ops. You say you have an AOC, it wouldn't be Airtex's would it? They operate all the Heron tours these days!
You do realise the -5's can be replaced with -10's, Honeywell has a big section about it on their website.
And Dornier don't make any aircraft (not just the 212) anymore and they haven't for years.
You sound like the ex-owner of Heron Airlines? He always wanted the 228 for LHI/NFI ops, and from what you've written here it really does sound like you are planning LHI/NFI ops. You say you have an AOC, it wouldn't be Airtex's would it? They operate all the Heron tours these days!
You do realise the -5's can be replaced with -10's, Honeywell has a big section about it on their website.
And Dornier don't make any aircraft (not just the 212) anymore and they haven't for years.
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Comebychance,
No I am not the ex-owner of Heron. Never owned one. I am in partnership with two other people who are ex-airline captains who has extensive background in these types of ops and they were never connected with Heron Airlines. I didn't even know they were wanting the same aircraft - news to me.
You nailed it on the head, LHI/NFI is the plan. LHI only has 886m of runway, that's why we picked the DO228.
If you know any other aircraft within the same price range of a 212 who can do this hop, let me know and we'll look at it.
In regards to the engine, it can be replaced but we'll have to find a source of the -10 engines. I don't think there is one in Oz. And we can avoid the extra cost of replacing it if we can get the 212.
And no we are not using Airtex's AOC.
D6
No I am not the ex-owner of Heron. Never owned one. I am in partnership with two other people who are ex-airline captains who has extensive background in these types of ops and they were never connected with Heron Airlines. I didn't even know they were wanting the same aircraft - news to me.
You nailed it on the head, LHI/NFI is the plan. LHI only has 886m of runway, that's why we picked the DO228.
If you know any other aircraft within the same price range of a 212 who can do this hop, let me know and we'll look at it.
In regards to the engine, it can be replaced but we'll have to find a source of the -10 engines. I don't think there is one in Oz. And we can avoid the extra cost of replacing it if we can get the 212.
And no we are not using Airtex's AOC.
D6
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Ok Deltasix, it did sound very simliar to their plans a few years back.
The 228-212 is perfect for the LHI/NFI ops and operating out of Willy puts you that much closer to LHI (though a think Port or Coffs are closer). At my guess you would get 15- 17 pax and bags with enough few to get back to the mainland.
I guess the only other smaller type would be the B200 or if you can find one a B1300 (Beech bulit less than 20 for Messa). Otherwise it's the Dash 8 , D328-110/120 or the Dash-7 (if you want big).
When you calculate the required fuel to return to the mainland, remember it has to be calculated based on the worse case, which in the D228 case could be if you got to LHI, couldn't get in due wx etc and then you couldn't retract the gear and had to fly back with the gear extended, therefore reduced TAS and possibly higher fuel burn per hour.
All the best with your plans, Qantaslink has had LHI to itself for far to long.
The 228-212 is perfect for the LHI/NFI ops and operating out of Willy puts you that much closer to LHI (though a think Port or Coffs are closer). At my guess you would get 15- 17 pax and bags with enough few to get back to the mainland.
I guess the only other smaller type would be the B200 or if you can find one a B1300 (Beech bulit less than 20 for Messa). Otherwise it's the Dash 8 , D328-110/120 or the Dash-7 (if you want big).
When you calculate the required fuel to return to the mainland, remember it has to be calculated based on the worse case, which in the D228 case could be if you got to LHI, couldn't get in due wx etc and then you couldn't retract the gear and had to fly back with the gear extended, therefore reduced TAS and possibly higher fuel burn per hour.
All the best with your plans, Qantaslink has had LHI to itself for far to long.
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Thanks Comebychance..... a development just occured. We have green light from financiers. We were hoping we can get the 212 with 6400 kgs of MTOW, but at this time we are willing to settle for 6200 kgs with a different series. We have homed in on the 202K. Might have to make modifications.
It already has CVR, DFDR, Radar Alt but we need EGPWS to be installed and prop de-icing.
Capacity is 2 pilots and 19 pax. From an ops point of view we will need 3 captains and 3 f/o's once it starts. I'm sure this would get filled VERY QUICKLY.
We will be buying another one if this dumb idea takes off.
We spent 4 years of planning in regards to it's operation, cashflow, revenue potential and the aircraft type to use.
Signing off for the meantime, have a lot of work to do tommorrow to get this ops operational once and for all.
D6
It already has CVR, DFDR, Radar Alt but we need EGPWS to be installed and prop de-icing.
Capacity is 2 pilots and 19 pax. From an ops point of view we will need 3 captains and 3 f/o's once it starts. I'm sure this would get filled VERY QUICKLY.
We will be buying another one if this dumb idea takes off.
We spent 4 years of planning in regards to it's operation, cashflow, revenue potential and the aircraft type to use.
Signing off for the meantime, have a lot of work to do tommorrow to get this ops operational once and for all.
D6
Join Date: Jul 2001
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D6,
All the best, hope it works. I think D228 would do well again in Australia and not just operating LHI/NFI.
If you want to get a good and cheap EGPWS unit have a look at the Sandel unit. It replaces one of the RMI displays and can be fitted to most turboprops for less than $30k.
Cheers
CBC
All the best, hope it works. I think D228 would do well again in Australia and not just operating LHI/NFI.
If you want to get a good and cheap EGPWS unit have a look at the Sandel unit. It replaces one of the RMI displays and can be fitted to most turboprops for less than $30k.
Cheers
CBC
Join Date: Jan 1999
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228-202K
Stretching the memory here, but isn't the -202K (K for "Keel") with the yaw damper installed, a 6400lb or 6600lb aircraft??
Also, if you want a good EGPWS for little money, then use the King KGP560 or 860. If you want to go one better, how about the King KMH880 with EGPWS & TCAS.
A word of caution in relation to the Dornier. I once purchased one out of Martinique and it had previous corrossion problems. The Dornier factory spent 6 months in Martinique getting the deadly cancer out of it. I knew of an aircraft available in France that had so much cancer that when fueled, the fuel would run out of the wing faster than it could be pumped in!!! The -200, -201, & 202 series appear to be more prone to the cancer than the -212.
Also be aware the the -5 engine has a habit of screwing up the forward seal if not used regularly. The one in the Philippines cost USD$380K to fix both engines, but I think they got taken for a ride
Good aircraft for what it is designed for, however, unless you have owned one, I don't think you will believe the cost of backup spares and support, that's if you can get it.
Also, if you want a good EGPWS for little money, then use the King KGP560 or 860. If you want to go one better, how about the King KMH880 with EGPWS & TCAS.
A word of caution in relation to the Dornier. I once purchased one out of Martinique and it had previous corrossion problems. The Dornier factory spent 6 months in Martinique getting the deadly cancer out of it. I knew of an aircraft available in France that had so much cancer that when fueled, the fuel would run out of the wing faster than it could be pumped in!!! The -200, -201, & 202 series appear to be more prone to the cancer than the -212.
Also be aware the the -5 engine has a habit of screwing up the forward seal if not used regularly. The one in the Philippines cost USD$380K to fix both engines, but I think they got taken for a ride
Good aircraft for what it is designed for, however, unless you have owned one, I don't think you will believe the cost of backup spares and support, that's if you can get it.
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Hi nasa,
6200 or 6400 Lbs ?........ the specs says 13,669 lbs or 6,200 kgs.
In regards to the other avionics, are you selling them ? If you are, I'll contact you at a later date to get prices.
Yes, we knew about the 2 in France. Both of them just came off the market, the sellers says "maintenance issue" and I think I have a notion what he meant by that.
The one in the Philippines had an engine overhaul done.
We are scheduled to fly there to check it out for corrosion and have a look at the maintenance logs. It's a 212.
I know the bloke who is selling it.
We are also looking at the one in Canada but that one is a 202k.
MTOW is 6200 kgs but STOL MTOW is 5700 kgs.
But definitely not cheap as chips. Hopefully we are not buying a piece of junk.
D6
6200 or 6400 Lbs ?........ the specs says 13,669 lbs or 6,200 kgs.
In regards to the other avionics, are you selling them ? If you are, I'll contact you at a later date to get prices.
Yes, we knew about the 2 in France. Both of them just came off the market, the sellers says "maintenance issue" and I think I have a notion what he meant by that.
The one in the Philippines had an engine overhaul done.
We are scheduled to fly there to check it out for corrosion and have a look at the maintenance logs. It's a 212.
I know the bloke who is selling it.
We are also looking at the one in Canada but that one is a 202k.
MTOW is 6200 kgs but STOL MTOW is 5700 kgs.
But definitely not cheap as chips. Hopefully we are not buying a piece of junk.
D6