Cost of A320 and B737 rating
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UR2, unfortunately NJS don't have that problem as there is no shortage ( at the present ) of drivers wanting to get off the gas chamber. If you knock back the 717 they just move onto the next guy on the list, and there are alot more guys on the list than there are 717 seats.
Evidenced by the fact that ( i am led to believe ) most of the 71 effo's so far are very junior.
Evidenced by the fact that ( i am led to believe ) most of the 71 effo's so far are very junior.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
"No" to both A S G.
You know the old adage about Respect ("earned, not bestowed"), whereas it is "a" about face if one is spawned (as a local) here.
Back to the main thread of the topic tho' - if Aussie pilots would stop navel gazing, and start treating THEMSELVES the way they've been treated by their employers....as commodities in the WORLD marketplace, and be willing to move globally, we'd ALL be a LOT better off (as pilots), imho.
You know the old adage about Respect ("earned, not bestowed"), whereas it is "a" about face if one is spawned (as a local) here.
Back to the main thread of the topic tho' - if Aussie pilots would stop navel gazing, and start treating THEMSELVES the way they've been treated by their employers....as commodities in the WORLD marketplace, and be willing to move globally, we'd ALL be a LOT better off (as pilots), imho.
In answer to original post re type rating costs, I understand that providing you are crewed up with another sim partner (mostly arranged via the sim provider) it will cost close to $21,000 AUD each for a 737 (Classic) command type rating with the Ansett Flight Simulator Centre or Endorsement Training Australia (ETA) - both in Melbourne. Both have websites. It is more expensive with Alteon or Qantas.
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To answer the question, I can tell you what I was told when Jetstar recruiting rang me two weeks ago and offered me a job on their A320.
FO starting salary $73,200
Cairns or Hobart bases available.
Do not expect to supplement base salary by much as very few overnights planned.
You have to do the QF Psychometric and Skills testing.
If you pass that, then there is an interview and a short sim ride in the QF 767 sim to check your flying skills.
If they are happy with you, then they will offer you a job on the A320.
You need to have an A320 type rating in your logbook on the day you turn up for your induction course.
If you don't have an Airbus type rating, the Alteon course takes around 5 weeks and will cost you $34,000.
You will have to pay for your own travel and accommodation to and from p+s testing, interviews and whilst training at Alteon.
You are paid the full $73k salary when you commence your induction course.
You can opt to salary sacrifice the $34k over three years once you start with J*.
Two of my colleagues were also contacted and quoted the same figures.
So it is a lot more than other colleagues of mine paid for their B737 at VB.
However you do not have to drop a great big wad of cash in one hit.
Salary sacrifice means also that you pay pre-tax.
There may be an issue with Fringe Benefits Tax as such a salary sacrifice arrangement might be seen by the ATO as a company loan.
The other advantage over a B737 is that after doing the A320 course, you can go to other Airbus types via a differences course instead of a whole new type rating for Boeing to Boeing.
I will refrain from giving my opinion on the offer. Just the facts for today!
FO starting salary $73,200
Cairns or Hobart bases available.
Do not expect to supplement base salary by much as very few overnights planned.
You have to do the QF Psychometric and Skills testing.
If you pass that, then there is an interview and a short sim ride in the QF 767 sim to check your flying skills.
If they are happy with you, then they will offer you a job on the A320.
You need to have an A320 type rating in your logbook on the day you turn up for your induction course.
If you don't have an Airbus type rating, the Alteon course takes around 5 weeks and will cost you $34,000.
You will have to pay for your own travel and accommodation to and from p+s testing, interviews and whilst training at Alteon.
You are paid the full $73k salary when you commence your induction course.
You can opt to salary sacrifice the $34k over three years once you start with J*.
Two of my colleagues were also contacted and quoted the same figures.
So it is a lot more than other colleagues of mine paid for their B737 at VB.
However you do not have to drop a great big wad of cash in one hit.
Salary sacrifice means also that you pay pre-tax.
There may be an issue with Fringe Benefits Tax as such a salary sacrifice arrangement might be seen by the ATO as a company loan.
The other advantage over a B737 is that after doing the A320 course, you can go to other Airbus types via a differences course instead of a whole new type rating for Boeing to Boeing.
I will refrain from giving my opinion on the offer. Just the facts for today!
Last edited by ITCZ; 1st Jun 2005 at 13:24.
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Its all been done before....
The Oz..NZ airline industry is now following the way of europe as it was 4 or 5 years ago. A lot of you guys are now looking at paying for a T/R to secure a job because..
A) You have been unsuccessful to date getting further up the ladder, or...
B) The loco's can see how desperate you are to get onto a jet, and they are taking advantage of it.
Airlines in Europe are now reaping the rewards of this policy, these include.. huge retention problems, increased training costs as crews move on to fund their training debt, not to mention very very low levels of experience in certain operators. Once again the airline bean counters see the cost of everything..and the value of nothing.
A) You have been unsuccessful to date getting further up the ladder, or...
B) The loco's can see how desperate you are to get onto a jet, and they are taking advantage of it.
Airlines in Europe are now reaping the rewards of this policy, these include.. huge retention problems, increased training costs as crews move on to fund their training debt, not to mention very very low levels of experience in certain operators. Once again the airline bean counters see the cost of everything..and the value of nothing.
Very low levels of experience is practically the norm in SE Asia and certainly in Europe. There are first officers (locals) flying A330's with Dragonair with 500 hours total time and a significant number of first officers on 737's with Air Asia went on to the type with just 250 hours total time. It is a fact of life and although we don't hear of the frights and hairy landings that no doubt must occur from time to time, the policy seems to be working.
It should be remembered that in Australia back in the Fifties and Sixties, pilots were being employed by various domestic operators with DC3's and F27's with as low as 200 hours and not even an instrument rating.
It should be remembered that in Australia back in the Fifties and Sixties, pilots were being employed by various domestic operators with DC3's and F27's with as low as 200 hours and not even an instrument rating.
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Cunninglinguist, I think your source of info might be a bit suspect.
A large number of existing NJS 146 pilots in Perth are exercising their option to not bid for the 717. Some think a pilot should be getting more money for a bigger aeroplane, others think that a solid three months away from home to get the endorsement and line training is too hard on the family, others don't like the idea of paying for training, and some are simply quite happy to stay on the 146 and do their out-and-back trips to the mines. Sounds fair enough to me.
WRT the other bases which will see all 146's replaced by the 717, all pilots established in those locations have been allocated a training slot in the 717.
As for the implication that some very junior pilots are being upgraded, how does 8,000 hrs total time, 7 renewals, and just under 3,000 hrs on jets for the most 'junior' FO compare to the Asian carriers discussed above?
2FarCanard,
The implications of salary sacrifice depend on how much you are earning and how much tax you are paying.
I hear way too many excuses from colleagues about how they are 'only' taking a $100 to $250 per week paycut, after tax.
The truth is that the whole of that $34,000 was YOUR money up until this year.
If you are doing nothing with a $73k salary apart from paying a mortgage and pissing the rest into the urinal on overnights, well, good luck to you.
But that $100 per week you gave away without thinking is actually $190 pre tax. That could have you in a nice house overlooking the Reef instead of your neighbour's 600m2 backyard in the 'burbs. It could have you buying one, two or three investment properties, negatively geared, that could see you retiring at 45 and sailing the world in your yacht or flying your T28 to an airshow instead of humping your overnight bag to the same old three star hotel right up to your 60th birthday.
If you don't want YOUR money, don't give it back to the bloody airline, give it to ME!!!
A large number of existing NJS 146 pilots in Perth are exercising their option to not bid for the 717. Some think a pilot should be getting more money for a bigger aeroplane, others think that a solid three months away from home to get the endorsement and line training is too hard on the family, others don't like the idea of paying for training, and some are simply quite happy to stay on the 146 and do their out-and-back trips to the mines. Sounds fair enough to me.
WRT the other bases which will see all 146's replaced by the 717, all pilots established in those locations have been allocated a training slot in the 717.
As for the implication that some very junior pilots are being upgraded, how does 8,000 hrs total time, 7 renewals, and just under 3,000 hrs on jets for the most 'junior' FO compare to the Asian carriers discussed above?
2FarCanard,
The implications of salary sacrifice depend on how much you are earning and how much tax you are paying.
I hear way too many excuses from colleagues about how they are 'only' taking a $100 to $250 per week paycut, after tax.
The truth is that the whole of that $34,000 was YOUR money up until this year.
If you are doing nothing with a $73k salary apart from paying a mortgage and pissing the rest into the urinal on overnights, well, good luck to you.
But that $100 per week you gave away without thinking is actually $190 pre tax. That could have you in a nice house overlooking the Reef instead of your neighbour's 600m2 backyard in the 'burbs. It could have you buying one, two or three investment properties, negatively geared, that could see you retiring at 45 and sailing the world in your yacht or flying your T28 to an airshow instead of humping your overnight bag to the same old three star hotel right up to your 60th birthday.
If you don't want YOUR money, don't give it back to the bloody airline, give it to ME!!!
Last edited by ITCZ; 3rd Jun 2005 at 12:57.
