Millionaire or bust!
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Australia
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Millionaire or bust!
Just read the Easterns’ stuff on Staff.cv and thought to myself – who can afford this?
Did some quick sums like 50 grand to get a CPL and ATPL Theory. Live in GA hellholes for a few years making sweet f/a on a casual wage (The further you venture into GA the more costly to fly to Sydney for an interview). Pay to apply (staffcv), pay for psych profile, pay for medical, pay for Dash Endorsement, then earn $45 Grand a year in the most expensive city in Australia. Interestingly, I wonder why they aren’t charging some ridiculous figure for the sim? Guess it will come next, along with the cost of taking a pilot off-line to interview you.
Who can afford this, seriously?
Did some quick sums like 50 grand to get a CPL and ATPL Theory. Live in GA hellholes for a few years making sweet f/a on a casual wage (The further you venture into GA the more costly to fly to Sydney for an interview). Pay to apply (staffcv), pay for psych profile, pay for medical, pay for Dash Endorsement, then earn $45 Grand a year in the most expensive city in Australia. Interestingly, I wonder why they aren’t charging some ridiculous figure for the sim? Guess it will come next, along with the cost of taking a pilot off-line to interview you.
Who can afford this, seriously?
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Australia
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Crystal,
No true GA pilot can afford this. They typically drive a busted arse car, make less than 24 grand per annum, have big debts, old clothes failing sense of humour! However, when they age over about 25, they prob want to get married, buy a house, get some superannuation ticking over and fly something that does not resemble a death trap. They have endured a lot of crap over many years.
They are like gamblers that have spent all their money, but hope the next roll of the dice lands in their favour. Although they can’t afford it, they may borrow the cash from a bank/building society with their parents as guarantors, max out numerous credit cards, sell any assests or borrow from a girlfriend/friend/relative. In any case, they will be “poor” until established in the job and can hopefully crawl their way back.
Although the company’s books look better, they don’t win either. These new pilots will carry a massive chip on their shoulder. They know the company is “using” them and they will return the favour. The company will have to expect to deal with things like poor staff morale, max utilisation of sick leave etc.
No one really wins until there is nothing left in it for anyone. It will never really go full cycle again in the pilots favour because a cadet system can provide licensed pilots in a quick space of time that can be bonded from day one with a basic career salary.
For those already in the “system” it’s too late to turn back and too old/unskilled to get out. For those wannabes, it’s a gloomy predictament. Such is Life.
No true GA pilot can afford this. They typically drive a busted arse car, make less than 24 grand per annum, have big debts, old clothes failing sense of humour! However, when they age over about 25, they prob want to get married, buy a house, get some superannuation ticking over and fly something that does not resemble a death trap. They have endured a lot of crap over many years.
They are like gamblers that have spent all their money, but hope the next roll of the dice lands in their favour. Although they can’t afford it, they may borrow the cash from a bank/building society with their parents as guarantors, max out numerous credit cards, sell any assests or borrow from a girlfriend/friend/relative. In any case, they will be “poor” until established in the job and can hopefully crawl their way back.
Although the company’s books look better, they don’t win either. These new pilots will carry a massive chip on their shoulder. They know the company is “using” them and they will return the favour. The company will have to expect to deal with things like poor staff morale, max utilisation of sick leave etc.
No one really wins until there is nothing left in it for anyone. It will never really go full cycle again in the pilots favour because a cadet system can provide licensed pilots in a quick space of time that can be bonded from day one with a basic career salary.
For those already in the “system” it’s too late to turn back and too old/unskilled to get out. For those wannabes, it’s a gloomy predictament. Such is Life.
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Man oh man..this guy has been there.
I agree one hundred and eighty percent.
Don't you love it when your GA boss says "my accountant reckons I am only getting paid $3 an hour running this company, you pilots are lucky on $15"
I want my weekends back.
To all my friends I haven't seen for 2 years..I miss you, don't forget me
I agree one hundred and eighty percent.
Don't you love it when your GA boss says "my accountant reckons I am only getting paid $3 an hour running this company, you pilots are lucky on $15"
I want my weekends back.
To all my friends I haven't seen for 2 years..I miss you, don't forget me
Join Date: Sep 2002
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My personal favourite was in Perth, doing my first paid flying job, a mile high club flight (with me doing ICUS).
Arrive, brief, set up the plane, get the pax briefed, then on the turps (champaigne), put in the flight plan, pre-flight the plane. Laod pax then PIC comes in and says do nothing, touch nothing except the cooler with the booze in it (in order to top up the pax as required) I make two calls on the comms, both on ground thats all the "flying" I do.
Half way through the flight the champaigne flute gets passed across, I fill it, only to find its got a used condom in it. The rest of the trip is in silence but the rocking in the back goes on till late finals.
After the flight, I clean up and tie down the plane and put the seats back in. The sheets/doonas etc are used & disgusting and they've run out of spare gloves. I drive the gear to the laundry.
Total pay for 4 hours work $15.00, oh, and I forgot, that as a sub-contractor!
Paying for endorsements... NFW!
Arrive, brief, set up the plane, get the pax briefed, then on the turps (champaigne), put in the flight plan, pre-flight the plane. Laod pax then PIC comes in and says do nothing, touch nothing except the cooler with the booze in it (in order to top up the pax as required) I make two calls on the comms, both on ground thats all the "flying" I do.
Half way through the flight the champaigne flute gets passed across, I fill it, only to find its got a used condom in it. The rest of the trip is in silence but the rocking in the back goes on till late finals.
After the flight, I clean up and tie down the plane and put the seats back in. The sheets/doonas etc are used & disgusting and they've run out of spare gloves. I drive the gear to the laundry.
Total pay for 4 hours work $15.00, oh, and I forgot, that as a sub-contractor!
Paying for endorsements... NFW!
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Sometimes, I seriously think if we still have a future in this industry if it doesnt send us round the bend first with all the debts we incurred and trying to make ends meet at the same time. To get paid "$15" for 4 hours work. That's almost the same as working in a chinese sweat shop.
I guess all I can say is "hang tough " guys..........for as long as you can
D6
I guess all I can say is "hang tough " guys..........for as long as you can
D6
I rememeber my first "Full-Time" instructing job.
$9,500 for the instructor rating.
$1,000ish for all the type ratings.
$ 600ish to move to where the job was.
8am - 6pm 7 days a week, just to answer the phone and pick up any flying that was left lying around.
Total income for the first three months...
$297.65
Thank-you aunty Helen for making sure all us G.A boys and girls got looked after by WINZ.
YEAH RIGHT!!!
$9,500 for the instructor rating.
$1,000ish for all the type ratings.
$ 600ish to move to where the job was.
8am - 6pm 7 days a week, just to answer the phone and pick up any flying that was left lying around.
Total income for the first three months...
$297.65
Thank-you aunty Helen for making sure all us G.A boys and girls got looked after by WINZ.
YEAH RIGHT!!!
Join Date: Feb 2005
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I couldn't be bothered to post what I originally wrote, waste of my energy to complain on the state of things here......
I got offered $60k and a Car to go back to work as an Electrician yesterday.... I have no experience except an apprenticeship I finished 7 years ago before I started flying
The world is different outside of Aviation
I got offered $60k and a Car to go back to work as an Electrician yesterday.... I have no experience except an apprenticeship I finished 7 years ago before I started flying
The world is different outside of Aviation
Last edited by Otis B Driftwood; 29th Apr 2005 at 07:25.
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Mr G - long time, no post?
Anyone got any news if the resume cabinet is pretty empty these days at EAA? Sunstate will still get a decent amount of applications as Bris and Cairns are not such a rip off as Sydney and therefore you may get a return on your investment 5 years before retirement, rather than the month before you retire!
I think if you are successful with Easterns, G Dixon should just give new drivers a list of say, 20 share holders so fcukwits like us can just send them a cheque - may keep the paperwork down??
Anyone got any news if the resume cabinet is pretty empty these days at EAA? Sunstate will still get a decent amount of applications as Bris and Cairns are not such a rip off as Sydney and therefore you may get a return on your investment 5 years before retirement, rather than the month before you retire!
I think if you are successful with Easterns, G Dixon should just give new drivers a list of say, 20 share holders so fcukwits like us can just send them a cheque - may keep the paperwork down??
Aussie F1 3A. What a sad sad story you tell, and I can only sympathise with your situation that you faced in trying to get a job as a pilot.
And what a reflection on the type of Australian GA operator that has to stoop so low as to set up a virtual knocking shop down the back of the aircraft just to make a lousy dollar. And what a sad reflection on the type of men and women in our society who buy such a service in an aeroplane and who lower themselves (in more ways than one) to such sick depths.
And what a reflection on the type of Australian GA operator that has to stoop so low as to set up a virtual knocking shop down the back of the aircraft just to make a lousy dollar. And what a sad reflection on the type of men and women in our society who buy such a service in an aeroplane and who lower themselves (in more ways than one) to such sick depths.
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Well said Centaurus, I fully agree.
I can not think of another industry where people are required to put so much in, and in a number of cases, get so little out.
Unfortunately there are operators in the industry that think that they are able to subject people to such undesirable conditions for so little pay.
Perhaps things will change, once the supply of pilots is less than the demand. Operators will be forced to pay increased hourly rates so that they may stay in business.
For those of you who need to stay in aviation for one reason or another, do it. But, for those who have a choice, it may be better to take an alternative and keep your flying private - I did.
Regards
Ash
I can not think of another industry where people are required to put so much in, and in a number of cases, get so little out.
Unfortunately there are operators in the industry that think that they are able to subject people to such undesirable conditions for so little pay.
Perhaps things will change, once the supply of pilots is less than the demand. Operators will be forced to pay increased hourly rates so that they may stay in business.
For those of you who need to stay in aviation for one reason or another, do it. But, for those who have a choice, it may be better to take an alternative and keep your flying private - I did.
Regards
Ash
Join Date: May 2003
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Mongolian farmers
Seriously,
Spare a thought for the Mongolian farmers, who work between 12 - 13 hours a day, starting well before first light, finishing well after last light, no breaks in between, they earn about the equivalent of 60 cents Australian for a days work.
Found out about these on Discovery Channel, there are THOUSANDS of these guys up there, battling on just to feed their families. I know they didn't pay $50K + for their education (most of them aren't educated), but picture how their outlook on life must be. Makes our whinges pale into insignificance, a tad.
There's always someone worse off than us.
520.
Spare a thought for the Mongolian farmers, who work between 12 - 13 hours a day, starting well before first light, finishing well after last light, no breaks in between, they earn about the equivalent of 60 cents Australian for a days work.
Found out about these on Discovery Channel, there are THOUSANDS of these guys up there, battling on just to feed their families. I know they didn't pay $50K + for their education (most of them aren't educated), but picture how their outlook on life must be. Makes our whinges pale into insignificance, a tad.
There's always someone worse off than us.
520.
Seasonally Adjusted
Re: the Mongolian Farmers.
Is that 60 cents tax free?
What are their annual leave entitlements?
What crop do they harvest?
Do you need previous experience on mules or donkeys?
Does it look like the industry may pick up in the long term?
Just weighing up my options.
Is that 60 cents tax free?
What are their annual leave entitlements?
What crop do they harvest?
Do you need previous experience on mules or donkeys?
Does it look like the industry may pick up in the long term?
Just weighing up my options.
Join Date: May 2003
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Hahahah...
Glad to see it all transforms to humour in the end. A welcome laugh for me after a long day on GA wages.
I doubt those guys (the Mongolian farmers) look up at the sky each time they hear a plane, exclaiming to each other "Jeez, I'm bloody glad I didn't get into aviation. Command time on Donkeys is much preferable to command time on 30yr old Cessnas"...
520.
I doubt those guys (the Mongolian farmers) look up at the sky each time they hear a plane, exclaiming to each other "Jeez, I'm bloody glad I didn't get into aviation. Command time on Donkeys is much preferable to command time on 30yr old Cessnas"...
520.
A little birdie has just told me that the cost of the DHC-8 Endorsement with EAA is dropping as we speak. Clearly management has their doubts as to the potential for this kind of system to work. Remember that the training is very difficult, although the vast majority do get through, some will fall by the wayside and leave with nothing but a bare endorsement.
I have paid for a turbine endorsment in the past to get ahead when things were slow, it worked well for me although the cost was a lot less than what EAA is talking about now.
All I can say is just remeber that if this scheme falls on its arse due to lack of interest and you went ahead and forked out the money you might well look pretty silly.
Good luck, Willie
I have paid for a turbine endorsment in the past to get ahead when things were slow, it worked well for me although the cost was a lot less than what EAA is talking about now.
All I can say is just remeber that if this scheme falls on its arse due to lack of interest and you went ahead and forked out the money you might well look pretty silly.
Good luck, Willie
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to be a doctor or laywer will cost you approx $100,000 , the gov gives them hex which they have to pay back, luckily they usually earn enough to pay their hex back ha ha !
untill all pilots as a group demand pay and conditions good luck.
untill all pilots as a group demand pay and conditions good luck.
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Get a bigger Donkey!!
CPL-35,000
Ag-16,000
MEIFR-14500
RENEWALS TO DATE-12000
ENDORSEMENTS-9800
who cares?we do it anyway, if you don,t have a lotto ticket you can,t WIN. simple.
Ag-16,000
MEIFR-14500
RENEWALS TO DATE-12000
ENDORSEMENTS-9800
who cares?we do it anyway, if you don,t have a lotto ticket you can,t WIN. simple.
