KNX near miss
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KNX near miss
Does anyone have any info on the near miss of between a pn68 and the emb120 at Kununurra.
I only know of one operator out of Kununurra that operate pn68 which old ankle grabz flys
I only know of one operator out of Kununurra that operate pn68 which old ankle grabz flys
YPKU...http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/occu...ail.cfm?ID=653
Once again goes to show that our system relies heavily on big sky theory, a good lookout and lots of luck.
Why broadcast on the MBZ frequency when maintaining 9500' and if this was considered necessary then why not repeat the call on the area frequency which after all is the relevant airspace?
For those that do not know the YPKU MBZ is SFC-5000'.
Once again goes to show that our system relies heavily on big sky theory, a good lookout and lots of luck.
Why broadcast on the MBZ frequency when maintaining 9500' and if this was considered necessary then why not repeat the call on the area frequency which after all is the relevant airspace?
For those that do not know the YPKU MBZ is SFC-5000'.
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sonoface4bars,
Maybe you should get your facts right before you make such suggestions.
“old ankle grabz” – grow up. I have nothing to hide so find some new material.
I challenge you to identify yourself so all can see how immature you are. If your username is reflective of your lineages, I feel sorry for your old man – I am sure you will never follow in his footsteps.
Maybe you should get your facts right before you make such suggestions.
“old ankle grabz” – grow up. I have nothing to hide so find some new material.
I challenge you to identify yourself so all can see how immature you are. If your username is reflective of your lineages, I feel sorry for your old man – I am sure you will never follow in his footsteps.
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And once again the problem arises which I have mentioned on here once before.
VFR pilots are to monitor the "appropriate " frequency. Just what that appropriate frequency is is very much open to debate and depends on so many factors.
My question to the Braz crew would be at what point does there company require that they monitor the MBZ? My company requires us to monitor the MBZ on Com 2 from 50 nm and broadcast at 30 nm.
VFR pilots are to monitor the "appropriate " frequency. Just what that appropriate frequency is is very much open to debate and depends on so many factors.
My question to the Braz crew would be at what point does there company require that they monitor the MBZ? My company requires us to monitor the MBZ on Com 2 from 50 nm and broadcast at 30 nm.
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Just read the absolute cr*p on that known aviation expert's web site. He is totally out of control and should be put down.
Even though this occurence happened in G airspace, one could imagine how many more could have happened by now in the famous E airspace outside of radar.
Call at 30 nm is the norm for most turbine aircraft operators, on the normal descent profile you are approaching A100. Usually things are a bit busy approaching TopD, with company calls, ATC clearances and IFR traffic etc. that the chances of hearing much on the MBZ would be low.
In this case itwouldn't helped much, because the it would have only taken 4 mins from 50 to 30 miles, and the near miss occurred shortly after 30 miles, so the Bras crew wouldnt have heard anything from the PN68, as i beleive the last report the PN68 made was over KNX.
Dare shall I say it, but this wouldn't happen in the days of FS, every one had traffic whether VFR or IFR.
Even though this occurence happened in G airspace, one could imagine how many more could have happened by now in the famous E airspace outside of radar.
Call at 30 nm is the norm for most turbine aircraft operators, on the normal descent profile you are approaching A100. Usually things are a bit busy approaching TopD, with company calls, ATC clearances and IFR traffic etc. that the chances of hearing much on the MBZ would be low.
In this case itwouldn't helped much, because the it would have only taken 4 mins from 50 to 30 miles, and the near miss occurred shortly after 30 miles, so the Bras crew wouldnt have heard anything from the PN68, as i beleive the last report the PN68 made was over KNX.
Dare shall I say it, but this wouldn't happen in the days of FS, every one had traffic whether VFR or IFR.
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Our company SOPS req a 15nm to boundary inbound call. Common sense dictates that I'm going to be listening in from a lot sooner than that. Especially if the destination is a busy one and considering time of day etc.
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Dog one
It did happen in the days of flight service, because there was so much radio chatter that the radio was not effective. I know of a case where a king air taxiing at Ayers rock made the right radio calls, heard replies, and on making the departure call, found he was nose to nose with an inbound boeing. The aircraft then talked direct to one another and arranged separation. It worked much better that way, as there was no time to talk to a third party.
Both the kingair pilot and the FS officer had along discussion afterwards, and replayed the tape many times. The radio channel had been overloaded and was not effective. When you take one party out (the FSO) it works much better.
It did happen in the days of flight service, because there was so much radio chatter that the radio was not effective. I know of a case where a king air taxiing at Ayers rock made the right radio calls, heard replies, and on making the departure call, found he was nose to nose with an inbound boeing. The aircraft then talked direct to one another and arranged separation. It worked much better that way, as there was no time to talk to a third party.
Both the kingair pilot and the FS officer had along discussion afterwards, and replayed the tape many times. The radio channel had been overloaded and was not effective. When you take one party out (the FSO) it works much better.
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bushy:
Wot a load of cobblers!
For every instance where you can highlight how the FS system broke down, I bet you I could name many other instances where the participation of FS actually prevented a potential airborne collision or near miss.
Like all systems, there were occasional failures but, on average, most pilots would probably agree that the old FS system generally worked well and was pretty good value for money in terms of safety investment.
Wot a load of cobblers!
For every instance where you can highlight how the FS system broke down, I bet you I could name many other instances where the participation of FS actually prevented a potential airborne collision or near miss.
Like all systems, there were occasional failures but, on average, most pilots would probably agree that the old FS system generally worked well and was pretty good value for money in terms of safety investment.
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The Voice
This happened before 2003.
QSK
This is not "Cobblers" I know for a fact and in great detail that this happened.
Consider this. In 1944 mustangs were flying around communicating using a thing called SCR522. A VHF radio, about the size of a carton of beer.It had four channels.When you transmitted, you could not recieve.
And you know what? We are still using exactly the same system.We have more channels, but it's still the "one way at a time" system that was used in the forties.There is not room on there for everyone to chatter incessantly.If you are so concerned about unnotified traffic, what about the military aircraft that dont talk? some were not even equipped with VHF.I remeber seeing a Mirage go underneath me one day, and when I queried Flight service they admitted they knew it was there.Or the blackhawks that fly at night with no exterior lighting, and no radio calls? we take precautions and try to keep ourselves aware of traffic, but the system is not infallable. And the antiquated radio system can only handle so much. So we need to heed the first and m0st important law of communication, which is "SHUT UP AND LISTEN"
This happened before 2003.
QSK
This is not "Cobblers" I know for a fact and in great detail that this happened.
Consider this. In 1944 mustangs were flying around communicating using a thing called SCR522. A VHF radio, about the size of a carton of beer.It had four channels.When you transmitted, you could not recieve.
And you know what? We are still using exactly the same system.We have more channels, but it's still the "one way at a time" system that was used in the forties.There is not room on there for everyone to chatter incessantly.If you are so concerned about unnotified traffic, what about the military aircraft that dont talk? some were not even equipped with VHF.I remeber seeing a Mirage go underneath me one day, and when I queried Flight service they admitted they knew it was there.Or the blackhawks that fly at night with no exterior lighting, and no radio calls? we take precautions and try to keep ourselves aware of traffic, but the system is not infallable. And the antiquated radio system can only handle so much. So we need to heed the first and m0st important law of communication, which is "SHUT UP AND LISTEN"
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Dear bjm367-80
It is interesting that you take the high moral ground about this near miss with a Brasilia, fair enough it wasn't you but a little birdie told me that you went head to head with a Brasilia last year when it was on a five mile final and you (in your infinite wisdom) decided it was a great time to roll on reciprocal runway with standard (appalling airmanship) no radio calls. When asked by the Bras crew what you were doing taking off on reciprocal RWY with no radio call, allegedly you said "I thought you had me on TCAS". Solid airmanship mate, head to head with an RPT aircraft on approach and no radio calls (given that if you did make the call it would be a lie so you could take an illegal turn after take off) and then make a call like that, keep up the good work. I hope the young blokes in the company take your flying with a grain of salt and adopt a “do as I say not as I do policy”.
Liking the view from the high moral ground shmoo
It is interesting that you take the high moral ground about this near miss with a Brasilia, fair enough it wasn't you but a little birdie told me that you went head to head with a Brasilia last year when it was on a five mile final and you (in your infinite wisdom) decided it was a great time to roll on reciprocal runway with standard (appalling airmanship) no radio calls. When asked by the Bras crew what you were doing taking off on reciprocal RWY with no radio call, allegedly you said "I thought you had me on TCAS". Solid airmanship mate, head to head with an RPT aircraft on approach and no radio calls (given that if you did make the call it would be a lie so you could take an illegal turn after take off) and then make a call like that, keep up the good work. I hope the young blokes in the company take your flying with a grain of salt and adopt a “do as I say not as I do policy”.
Liking the view from the high moral ground shmoo
Last edited by drshmoo; 10th Mar 2005 at 22:21.
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shmoo,
As discussed before, I was not involved in such an incident. I do vaguely remember it, but don’t feel in necessary to embarrass the person involved.
I agree it is a stupid thing to say "didn't you have me in TCAS" as that is neither an excuse for, nor a solution to, the problem. It shows a complete lack of understanding for what the system is intended for.
Why must you feel that you need to attack me at every opportunity that you get? Contrary to your belief - I have not made any attempts to defame/insult you on this forum under this or any other usernames. I understand that you don't believe me, but please accept my word.
Feel free to call me if you need to vent any grievances that you have.
As discussed before, I was not involved in such an incident. I do vaguely remember it, but don’t feel in necessary to embarrass the person involved.
I agree it is a stupid thing to say "didn't you have me in TCAS" as that is neither an excuse for, nor a solution to, the problem. It shows a complete lack of understanding for what the system is intended for.
Why must you feel that you need to attack me at every opportunity that you get? Contrary to your belief - I have not made any attempts to defame/insult you on this forum under this or any other usernames. I understand that you don't believe me, but please accept my word.
Feel free to call me if you need to vent any grievances that you have.
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WOW! The tropical heat was making us all feel different somehow. shmoo could see bajama's across the verandah, the ceiling fans playing a soothing swish swish to the cicada's singing their sweet song. You bitch he crooned, 'Aip 23, 67 103 you were in breach of them all'!
'Don't be like that baby' purred bajama's, her face flushing with the crimson shmoo knew so well. 'I'm sorry, I misinterpreted, I was having a bad day, I really didn't know what I was doing, I thought, I thought, oh God I don't know what I was thinking. Do you think you can make it all right.
shmoo's tough exterior melted at the sight of bajamas tears and her left tit slipping from the corner of her Jacky Howe. Buy me another beer and we can go up to my room. I'll show you my drawings of the 310 fuel system he said, in a voice husky but full of promise.
'Don't be like that baby' purred bajama's, her face flushing with the crimson shmoo knew so well. 'I'm sorry, I misinterpreted, I was having a bad day, I really didn't know what I was doing, I thought, I thought, oh God I don't know what I was thinking. Do you think you can make it all right.
shmoo's tough exterior melted at the sight of bajamas tears and her left tit slipping from the corner of her Jacky Howe. Buy me another beer and we can go up to my room. I'll show you my drawings of the 310 fuel system he said, in a voice husky but full of promise.
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spot
spotlight shut up.
if you ever have the misfortune of meeting this guy - better hope that its when he's trying to pick you up at the pub and not mid air over knx while hes looking for some farms to buy.
if you ever have the misfortune of meeting this guy - better hope that its when he's trying to pick you up at the pub and not mid air over knx while hes looking for some farms to buy.
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O.Kaaaay why? He seems to have a sense of humour to me.
For fear that he may wish to look out of his aireyplane?
Don't stress mate, sooner than you know you will be lamenting the passing of the days when 'there I was ... Oh hell are you in NW WA! Poor bar steward.
Sorry Mate I am realy really sorry/
For fear that he may wish to look out of his aireyplane?
Don't stress mate, sooner than you know you will be lamenting the passing of the days when 'there I was ... Oh hell are you in NW WA! Poor bar steward.
Sorry Mate I am realy really sorry/
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When you hear him make a rare call with callsign *** is a p68 - bravo victor. followed by a bungles departure of to argyle and diverting out to the west to miss the incomming bungles traffic.
Then you can pick the type of guy he is.
a raging great one.
Then you can pick the type of guy he is.
a raging great one.
