More Eagle Interviews
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Nah... it's a dog. What you get when you try and turn a six-seater into an airliner. Keep stretching and eventually, the laws of physics catch up with you.
I did the course a while back, and the notes are at pains to talk it up as being a wonderful airframe.
Trouble is, it's a dog. A slow, under-equipped, ugly dog...
I did the course a while back, and the notes are at pains to talk it up as being a wonderful airframe.
Trouble is, it's a dog. A slow, under-equipped, ugly dog...
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The 1900's a DOG?!
MOR> Trouble is, it's a dog. A slow, under-equipped, ugly dog...
Slow? Vmo 248 M0.48
Under equipped? We got eveything we need and some. Okay an A/P wud be nice at times, like for reading the Herald.
Ugly? Well okay it is for a mother to love!
Slow? Vmo 248 M0.48
Under equipped? We got eveything we need and some. Okay an A/P wud be nice at times, like for reading the Herald.
Ugly? Well okay it is for a mother to love!
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Hmmm... well the J32 has the largest cabin in its class, and comes complete with an autopilot (and a toilet). It's Vmo is 255kts.
The Metro III has a Vmo of 278 kts apparently.
Not sure why you quote Mach figures, they are irrelevant at low level (where these aircraft fly).
So what aircraft, in the same class, is slower than a B1900D???
Your 1900's are just about the lowest spec that you can legally fly. I can't believe that any new commuter aircraft, in this day and age, can be specified without an autopilot. That is just ridiculous.
As others have said - crap FD, crap GPS, antique systems with little redundancy.
You'll realise how awful it is when you get to fly a better-equipped aircraft.
Until then, enjoy your 1279shp... and all that hand flying (very character-building).
Seriously though, it is an aeroplane with more than one engine and a cabin crew member to make the coffee, so it can't be all that bad...
The Metro III has a Vmo of 278 kts apparently.
Not sure why you quote Mach figures, they are irrelevant at low level (where these aircraft fly).
So what aircraft, in the same class, is slower than a B1900D???
Your 1900's are just about the lowest spec that you can legally fly. I can't believe that any new commuter aircraft, in this day and age, can be specified without an autopilot. That is just ridiculous.
As others have said - crap FD, crap GPS, antique systems with little redundancy.
You'll realise how awful it is when you get to fly a better-equipped aircraft.
Until then, enjoy your 1279shp... and all that hand flying (very character-building).
Seriously though, it is an aeroplane with more than one engine and a cabin crew member to make the coffee, so it can't be all that bad...
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MOR
You have a very strong opion that the J32 is better than than B190!
May I ask how you come to think that a J32 is better in performance than the Beech?
I'm not trying to stroke egos or compares whos is bigger but there is no way that a J32 keeps up with the Beech its a regular thing to pass and out climb them not to mention the fact that they use half of the runway at AKL to get airborne.
Before this all gets out of hand like it normally does perhaps we should all just agree to disagree
splat
You have a very strong opion that the J32 is better than than B190!
May I ask how you come to think that a J32 is better in performance than the Beech?
I'm not trying to stroke egos or compares whos is bigger but there is no way that a J32 keeps up with the Beech its a regular thing to pass and out climb them not to mention the fact that they use half of the runway at AKL to get airborne.
Before this all gets out of hand like it normally does perhaps we should all just agree to disagree
splat
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Not sure why you quote Mach figures, they are irrelevant at low level (where these aircraft fly).
As for the Metro III, could be wrong but I thought Vmo was 246 KIAS.
I agree with just about everything else you say, although not sure if the last bit is a wind up 'cause the only person making coffee on a B190 is the good old co-pilot (with the panel mounted coffee machine of course).
My previouse post re calls for intervies was a bit premature (sorry) calls should go out before the end of the week for interviews in early June.
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splat
No not really I hate them both equally... 
Without delving into both Flight Manuals, the answer is I don't know. The Vmo's are similar, so maybe it comes down to technique/pax loads or whatever. Also, the J32 has different speeds depending on where it is certified (faster under FARs).
I used to operate the J32 out of such tiny strips as Scatsta, the short vector at Humberside, and various others. It gets off the ground very smartly if you apply the correct technique.
My point wasn't really about performance anyway, it was more to do with cabin size and equipment levels. If you want to see how much bigger the cabin of a J32 is than a B1900, I refer you to this.
Cloud Cutter
Sorry, didn't make myself clear. The limitation is an airspeed one - there is no machmeter, so your barber pole is driven by your ASI, and indicates an approximation of mach. You fly to an airspeed. In fact I can't find any mach limitation in my 1900 manual, all the speed limitations are expressed as KIAS. Where is it? Of course I only have the UE-series manual.
Really? You don't have a hostie...?? Fark... 
That's something else the J32 has then... a galley!
You have a very strong opion that the J32 is better than than B190!
Without delving into both Flight Manuals, the answer is I don't know. The Vmo's are similar, so maybe it comes down to technique/pax loads or whatever. Also, the J32 has different speeds depending on where it is certified (faster under FARs).
I used to operate the J32 out of such tiny strips as Scatsta, the short vector at Humberside, and various others. It gets off the ground very smartly if you apply the correct technique.
My point wasn't really about performance anyway, it was more to do with cabin size and equipment levels. If you want to see how much bigger the cabin of a J32 is than a B1900, I refer you to this.
Cloud Cutter
The Mmo of 0.48 is limiting above 13000 ft (DA), at 25000 ft it equates to 198 KIAS so you are most certainly limited by it.
the only person making coffee on a B190 is the good old co-pilot (with the panel mounted coffee machine of course).
That's something else the J32 has then... a galley!
Last edited by MOR; 11th May 2005 at 02:51.
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MOR
Are you talking about a J41 or 31 coz the 31's I've seen are definatley wide but have been squished in a vice not giving much leg room. Also I cant ever recall seeing a galley!
Get your B190 manual have a look at the limitations section and you will find :
Page 2-3
the star * next to Vmo = 248-195*
Bottom of the page Mach 0.48
C u
splat
Are you talking about a J41 or 31 coz the 31's I've seen are definatley wide but have been squished in a vice not giving much leg room. Also I cant ever recall seeing a galley!
Get your B190 manual have a look at the limitations section and you will find :
Page 2-3
the star * next to Vmo = 248-195*
Bottom of the page Mach 0.48
C u
splat
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splat
The J31, J32 and J41 all have identical fuselage cross-sections. The J41 is simply a stretch, with different engines and systems. The difference is probably in the way the interior space is used - the J41 seems roomier, it uses thinner cabin sidewall material and thinner insulation.
As far as mach is concerned, in my manual all that stuff is on 2-10 and there is no star, or mention of mach. Different manuals I guess, mine is an FSI one, dated 1994 (and priced at $250 US...!!! glad I didn't have to pay for it). Comes with the East Wichita traffic pattern and everything - must be a copy of the Beech manual.
All our J32s had galleys, and at least a couple of those aircraft ended up with Origin, so they were either removed for an extra seat, or are still there (we operated them in 17Y configuration). We used to serve hot meals (pre-heated) and hot drinks, as well as hot crew meals.
Bottom line, the pilots ate well, had drinks every 30 mins, and usually some post-flight drinks at the end of the day.
I used to fly the J32 for Sabena in Belgium, and they had some serious catering on them - basically the same as their short-haul jet fleet. We used to load four bar boxes (we provided a full bar service on our flights), plus the hot meals. Tea and coffee came from the galley. We sometimes ran two cabin crew, but mostly just one.
And you guys don't even have a hostie... don't know what you're missing...!!!
Are you talking about a J41 or 31 coz the 31's I've seen are definatley wide but have been squished in a vice not giving much leg room.
As far as mach is concerned, in my manual all that stuff is on 2-10 and there is no star, or mention of mach. Different manuals I guess, mine is an FSI one, dated 1994 (and priced at $250 US...!!! glad I didn't have to pay for it). Comes with the East Wichita traffic pattern and everything - must be a copy of the Beech manual.
All our J32s had galleys, and at least a couple of those aircraft ended up with Origin, so they were either removed for an extra seat, or are still there (we operated them in 17Y configuration). We used to serve hot meals (pre-heated) and hot drinks, as well as hot crew meals.
Bottom line, the pilots ate well, had drinks every 30 mins, and usually some post-flight drinks at the end of the day.
I used to fly the J32 for Sabena in Belgium, and they had some serious catering on them - basically the same as their short-haul jet fleet. We used to load four bar boxes (we provided a full bar service on our flights), plus the hot meals. Tea and coffee came from the galley. We sometimes ran two cabin crew, but mostly just one.
And you guys don't even have a hostie... don't know what you're missing...!!!
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Just to clear up any doubt, the B1900D leaves the J32 for dead on the performance stakes - that was one of the deal brakers when eagle came to choose between the two (operations out of Whangarei).
With aircraft of similar MCTOMs, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to devise that the more powerfull one (in the order of 16%), will accelerate more quickly on takeoff reducing ASDR. This also applies (along with aerodynamic conciderations) to climb performance, which as Splat said, has the B190 winning the race hands down, time after time.
MOR, you are coming from the position of never having flown the Beech. I agree with you that the Jetstream is an airliner while the Beech is an up-sized GA machine, and systems reliability is demonstrating that. The simple fact is the B190 is far more rewarding to fly, (no I haven't flown both, but there are plenty who have).
Good luck to those with up-coming interviews
With aircraft of similar MCTOMs, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to devise that the more powerfull one (in the order of 16%), will accelerate more quickly on takeoff reducing ASDR. This also applies (along with aerodynamic conciderations) to climb performance, which as Splat said, has the B190 winning the race hands down, time after time.
MOR, you are coming from the position of never having flown the Beech. I agree with you that the Jetstream is an airliner while the Beech is an up-sized GA machine, and systems reliability is demonstrating that. The simple fact is the B190 is far more rewarding to fly, (no I haven't flown both, but there are plenty who have).
Good luck to those with up-coming interviews
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MOR
I used to fly the meto and the 1900d, you are right about some things you've said, wrong about more tho. It does have a certain GA feel about it from the front but I always used to forgive it for that when maintaining a 2000fpm climb rate at 200kts.
That low level comment was a bit weird, I don't remember any J32's up at FL 250 enjoying the tail winds when I was flying it......I don't know their ceiling but have a feeling it isn't that high. Not having a hostie sucked but I guess it was good for the economics of the operation.
I think I would rather fly a lower performance a/c with a hostie tho, now that I have worked with them I don't think I would like to go without....it's their help with the crossword I'd miss......yep.
I used to fly the meto and the 1900d, you are right about some things you've said, wrong about more tho. It does have a certain GA feel about it from the front but I always used to forgive it for that when maintaining a 2000fpm climb rate at 200kts.
That low level comment was a bit weird, I don't remember any J32's up at FL 250 enjoying the tail winds when I was flying it......I don't know their ceiling but have a feeling it isn't that high. Not having a hostie sucked but I guess it was good for the economics of the operation.
I think I would rather fly a lower performance a/c with a hostie tho, now that I have worked with them I don't think I would like to go without....it's their help with the crossword I'd miss......yep.
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MOR, you are coming from the position of never having flown the Beech.
cjam
maintaining a 2000fpm climb rate at 200kts.
That low level comment was a bit weird, I don't remember any J32's up at FL 250 enjoying the tail winds when I was flying it......I don't know their ceiling but have a feeling it isn't that high.
Max operating altitude:
1900D - 25,000
J32 - 26,000
We used to operate our J32s at FL230-250 mostly.
(from the flight manuals)
The other point a lot of you don't get is that the J32 was available with a water meth option, which seriously boosts climb performance in the lower levels (5 minute limit from memory).
I am almost keen enough now to get out the performance graphs for both types and see which one is really better and by how much. So much comes down to technique and load that comments like "we always used to outclimb them..." are pretty meaningless. For example, we often used to climb steeply to get up into a tailwind, or cruise-climb to get a better arrival slot into Brussels or Heathrow.
Anyway... flying any aircraft is a joy.
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MOR...yeah that didn't really make sense did it. I meant when I was flying the 1900. I haven't flown the J32.
I didn't know they got up that high. thanks for clearing that up.
I don't know how much fuel or pax we had on with regard the 200kts/2000fpm. It was rare to be under 7000kg's tho and achieving those figures was a regular event. I think you should get out your performance graphs and do a comparison.I predict that the 1900d will out perform the 32 in every respect (apart from galleys and hosties) even with water meth.
PS. We all substitute speed for ROC and vice-versa when required so I don't think that is relavent.
Cheers.
I didn't know they got up that high. thanks for clearing that up.
I don't know how much fuel or pax we had on with regard the 200kts/2000fpm. It was rare to be under 7000kg's tho and achieving those figures was a regular event. I think you should get out your performance graphs and do a comparison.I predict that the 1900d will out perform the 32 in every respect (apart from galleys and hosties) even with water meth.
PS. We all substitute speed for ROC and vice-versa when required so I don't think that is relavent.
Cheers.
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Nah I just use my dry wit and excessive good looks to impress the girls... ahem...
Anyway... performance. Turns out this is hard, because the performance section of my 1900 basically says "yeah she goes real good, eh cuzzy bro". No charts, no tables, nothing.
So here's the plan. One of you 1900 drivers check you book and come up with some figures, and I'll do the same for the J32. Here are the assumptions:
ISA
MTOW
Minimum bleed
Climb prop RPM
Climb to FL240
We want to know:
Fuel used, distance travelled, time
How say you, Beech drivers?
Anyway... performance. Turns out this is hard, because the performance section of my 1900 basically says "yeah she goes real good, eh cuzzy bro". No charts, no tables, nothing.
So here's the plan. One of you 1900 drivers check you book and come up with some figures, and I'll do the same for the J32. Here are the assumptions:
ISA
MTOW
Minimum bleed
Climb prop RPM
Climb to FL240
We want to know:
Fuel used, distance travelled, time
How say you, Beech drivers?