15 years on, have we had some interesting jobs or what????
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HIALS,mjbow2 and Capt Woolbah you couldn't have said it better:
's all of it. 
Which Fokkers you guys on about, I was in the "vanguard group" for the 50 intro into Borneo -------- great memories of our pad in Likas and many Tigers sunk out on Sapi and at Travellers Inn.
the industry in Oz IS "backward, small minded and unfriendly"
's all of it. Which Fokkers you guys on about, I was in the "vanguard group" for the 50 intro into Borneo -------- great memories of our pad in Likas and many Tigers sunk out on Sapi and at Travellers Inn.
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Ahh! Nostalgia ain't what it used to be!
Happy hour at the Tanjung Aru Sunset Bar, followed by dinner at the Diamond Restaurant. A gloriously cold beer at the Tavern in Kuching, while discussing the morning's "longhouse approach" at Sibu.
Those were the days!
Happy hour at the Tanjung Aru Sunset Bar, followed by dinner at the Diamond Restaurant. A gloriously cold beer at the Tavern in Kuching, while discussing the morning's "longhouse approach" at Sibu.
Those were the days!
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The longhouse(wasnt it Uncle Charlies and the mango tree the FAF?) has long gone, Stable , as has the old USS SIBU, and Bay five, if you remember it. The airport is now about 10 miles east, conveniently located on land a govt. minister owned and perfectly located for a met students' study of reasons of the formation of tropical morning fog. It is reached by 25km's of undulating bitumen that was, incidently, laid by a govt. ministers' friends ' company. It also has an ILS now so it really takes the challenge out of those arrivals after a night out "culturally exploring Bintulu" or 90 miles further into in trouble, that house of ill repute , the ranch in Miri, which is really only a bad place because the morning's departure time is earlier. I think..Never the less SBW still has some existing charm, who could forget the Li Hua, an experience no one should miss, or the delightful Kingwood's "haunted room", the waterfront delights..well the list goes on and Gawai is coming( well isnt it?)
Capt Wooblah no need to cook the mooblah, minum tapai lah, bah!!
Capt Wooblah no need to cook the mooblah, minum tapai lah, bah!!
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Memories,
What fun, darts at the Tavern with those Scandahooligans. Those Iban wenches and Tapai and Tuak, Bah!
Remember Bono's batchelor party in KK. His Dad was a BKI based 737 driver.
Who could forget Donnie Osman he is still in KCH making a mess of things and playing politics.
Yes SBW is gone replaced by a new AP and so is BTU the newie is down toward Tatau river and yes 747's can get in and out of BTU. who would have thought eh!
Well guys lets orgamanise a reunion. What do you blokes reckon?
Regards to all,
Wooblah.
What fun, darts at the Tavern with those Scandahooligans. Those Iban wenches and Tapai and Tuak, Bah!
Remember Bono's batchelor party in KK. His Dad was a BKI based 737 driver.
Who could forget Donnie Osman he is still in KCH making a mess of things and playing politics.
Yes SBW is gone replaced by a new AP and so is BTU the newie is down toward Tatau river and yes 747's can get in and out of BTU. who would have thought eh!
Well guys lets orgamanise a reunion. What do you blokes reckon?
Regards to all,
Wooblah.
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HIALS hate to break it to you buddy..
but i work for a major airline in aust.. im neither desperate , angry or bitter.. im having a ball.. paid well with excellent career opportunites, sure we have hiccups but all in all im happy with my lot.The thing is, if I wanted to fly O/S i could, quite easily, in Europe or Asia....
but the fact remains that the majority of Aussie pilots flying offshore dont have a choice.. they either cant get a job in Oz or gave it away....
And those 'experiences' you speak of just confirms what im saying.. coz all aside Australia is still a great place to live..
but i work for a major airline in aust.. im neither desperate , angry or bitter.. im having a ball.. paid well with excellent career opportunites, sure we have hiccups but all in all im happy with my lot.The thing is, if I wanted to fly O/S i could, quite easily, in Europe or Asia....
but the fact remains that the majority of Aussie pilots flying offshore dont have a choice.. they either cant get a job in Oz or gave it away....
And those 'experiences' you speak of just confirms what im saying.. coz all aside Australia is still a great place to live..
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airhag, I loved your post! Cream, indeed.
The only people in the aviation I have ever heard refer to THEMSELVES as cream have been headed for a serious fall, and in most cases I recall, have copped a fall.
Men in white hats?? Cream?? You didn`t mention having yourhand stuck down the front of your pants!
The only people in the aviation I have ever heard refer to THEMSELVES as cream have been headed for a serious fall, and in most cases I recall, have copped a fall.
Men in white hats?? Cream?? You didn`t mention having yourhand stuck down the front of your pants!
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The men in white hats are SILENT on their experiences over the past 15 years!!!
Let there be no doubt they are setting the world on fire with their great expertise in aviation and imparting their vast reserves of knowledge, gained in the country with less than a hundred jet aircraft operating domestically, to the rest of the aviation challenged world.
Last time I saw someone in a white hat it was in Oxford Street Sydney so its no wonder they choose to be silent.
Are the cream afraid of the p***** bashers getting hold of them?
Well the industry might be small minded etc, but it's way ahead of where it was when you lot were in it so imagine how small minded it was then. The collective IQ of the aviation industryin Oz has been raised about ten fold with your departure. Men in white hats! m hahahahaha
airhag let's have some more of your humour. And YS120FZ I reckon you got it right as well.
Let there be no doubt they are setting the world on fire with their great expertise in aviation and imparting their vast reserves of knowledge, gained in the country with less than a hundred jet aircraft operating domestically, to the rest of the aviation challenged world.
Last time I saw someone in a white hat it was in Oxford Street Sydney so its no wonder they choose to be silent.
Are the cream afraid of the p***** bashers getting hold of them?
Well the industry might be small minded etc, but it's way ahead of where it was when you lot were in it so imagine how small minded it was then. The collective IQ of the aviation industryin Oz has been raised about ten fold with your departure. Men in white hats! m hahahahaha
airhag let's have some more of your humour. And YS120FZ I reckon you got it right as well.
Last edited by relax737; 8th Oct 2004 at 02:59.
Blo Moi
The only well paid job left in Australia is QF surely?
If your "major" airline is VB or Jetstar I suspect you like peanuts!
You could fly overseas quite easily at the moment. But the better jobs are still not so easy to get.
The only well paid job left in Australia is QF surely?
If your "major" airline is VB or Jetstar I suspect you like peanuts!
You could fly overseas quite easily at the moment. But the better jobs are still not so easy to get.
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Gnadenburg,
I don't know who BM works for, but even if it's VB, it is still better paid than either major was prior to 89, probably even when projected at CPI for 15 years.
I think VB Capts are on about 160 pa now, and prior to 89 a 737 Capt in QF/AN was about 100-110. The base after the brawl was arrived at by giving the requested/required "no negotiation" pay rise of 29+% but requiring an increase of productivity of a similar amount. The post 89 Capt salary was 129 I think, giving a pre 89 of about 100K.
I know that pre 89i QF FO base was 62.
I agree that the better jobs aren't easy to get, and those are companies like Dragon, CX, Emirates where you must start as an FO. Companies that take direct entry Capts mostly aren;t big payers as they're the LCCs of the world.
There's a new one in the Pacific that is paying about 6.2 A$ before tax, and Atlas Blue in Morocco is 5.1 Euros,about the same. Not a lot of cash, but a lot more than Air Asia, and probably Tiger and Jetstar Asia.
Japan seems to be the exception for direct entry Capts I hear.
You know 308, I don'tr reckon anybody who didn't wear a white hat would have been good enough to make an approach to that airport on the govt ministers' land without an ILS. They'd have diverted or crashed.
I don't know who BM works for, but even if it's VB, it is still better paid than either major was prior to 89, probably even when projected at CPI for 15 years.
I think VB Capts are on about 160 pa now, and prior to 89 a 737 Capt in QF/AN was about 100-110. The base after the brawl was arrived at by giving the requested/required "no negotiation" pay rise of 29+% but requiring an increase of productivity of a similar amount. The post 89 Capt salary was 129 I think, giving a pre 89 of about 100K.
I know that pre 89i QF FO base was 62.
I agree that the better jobs aren't easy to get, and those are companies like Dragon, CX, Emirates where you must start as an FO. Companies that take direct entry Capts mostly aren;t big payers as they're the LCCs of the world.
There's a new one in the Pacific that is paying about 6.2 A$ before tax, and Atlas Blue in Morocco is 5.1 Euros,about the same. Not a lot of cash, but a lot more than Air Asia, and probably Tiger and Jetstar Asia.
Japan seems to be the exception for direct entry Capts I hear.
You know 308, I don'tr reckon anybody who didn't wear a white hat would have been good enough to make an approach to that airport on the govt ministers' land without an ILS. They'd have diverted or crashed.
Last edited by relax737; 8th Oct 2004 at 05:38.
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Ignorance is bliss I guess relax737 it may interest you to know that those of us that chose to go OS for whatever reason in most circumstances are now financially far better off and operating equipment that we could have only dreamed of previously.
If you haven't operated outside of Oz then those of you who are quick to criticise have no credibility and I don't mean a "junket" to Denpassar or the "Shakey Isles".
Oz aviation is a protected environment which is struggling to keep up with worlds best practice both in infrastructure and services. With the exception of maybe BNE Oz does not have an airport which comes within "light years" of many OS destinations, SYD is a mess and MEL is dated, the International Arr/Dep at MEL is a "chicken shed" !
I would far sooner do what I'm doing now than a Domestic sector back home (which I did for 16yrs) at least I get to use the airspace efficiently. Never could work out why Airservices Oz see things as lines on charts and waste all the other usable airspace around them. Something to do with outdated proceedure I believe, but that's another story I guess.
If you haven't operated outside of Oz then those of you who are quick to criticise have no credibility and I don't mean a "junket" to Denpassar or the "Shakey Isles".
Oz aviation is a protected environment which is struggling to keep up with worlds best practice both in infrastructure and services. With the exception of maybe BNE Oz does not have an airport which comes within "light years" of many OS destinations, SYD is a mess and MEL is dated, the International Arr/Dep at MEL is a "chicken shed" !
I would far sooner do what I'm doing now than a Domestic sector back home (which I did for 16yrs) at least I get to use the airspace efficiently. Never could work out why Airservices Oz see things as lines on charts and waste all the other usable airspace around them. Something to do with outdated proceedure I believe, but that's another story I guess.
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Better get over it Old Smokey or get out of it. After AN fell over, they're all round the world and attempts by you guys to stop them from getting into the companies you're with will be futile.
I'm sure there are no scabs holding check positions anywhere in the world; theyjust wouldnt be good enough, or wearing white hats.
Imagine some loser telling an airline manager in Japan or China that he didn;t want somebody coming to the company because of a hiccup in Oz 15 years ago. You'd be show nthe door.
Of course they're not the gun operat orsyou guys were, but they get by using bits of string and mirrors.
Loose Connection, I've also worked overseas for quite a few years and can report that it's not much/any different from home. Few different procedures, wx patterns different, but flying is much the same the world over. You work with what you have and walk through the terminal building to get to the duty free shop. An dI too am infinitely better off financially than if I'd stayed home.
As for judging a place on its terminal???? I've seen some very ordinary international terminals in Africa and South America, but I fly an aircraft not a terminal building.
I'm sure there are no scabs holding check positions anywhere in the world; theyjust wouldnt be good enough, or wearing white hats.
Imagine some loser telling an airline manager in Japan or China that he didn;t want somebody coming to the company because of a hiccup in Oz 15 years ago. You'd be show nthe door.
Of course they're not the gun operat orsyou guys were, but they get by using bits of string and mirrors.
Loose Connection, I've also worked overseas for quite a few years and can report that it's not much/any different from home. Few different procedures, wx patterns different, but flying is much the same the world over. You work with what you have and walk through the terminal building to get to the duty free shop. An dI too am infinitely better off financially than if I'd stayed home.
As for judging a place on its terminal???? I've seen some very ordinary international terminals in Africa and South America, but I fly an aircraft not a terminal building.
Last edited by relax737; 8th Oct 2004 at 07:39.
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Geez Relax, you have a fixation with white hats dont you? Must be something Freudian in there somewhere...
Relax, take a look at your posts, and contemplate a few things you have mentioned. Look DEEP within yourself, and you may notice a trend...
OK, you probably don't understand. You see, you specifically mention China and Japan. Yes, very true that WE couldn't stop YOU lot (assuming you are one of THEM
), but there ain't a whole heck of a lot of 89'ers in China or Japan - we went to THE OTHER airlines - SIA, CX, MAS, Emirates, Gulf, KLM, Lufthansa, Martinair, British Midlands, Royal Brunei.... I'll let you stew over the reason why you don't find many NON-THEM in China, Taiwan, Vietnam, Cambodia, and Japan.
YOU lot generally don't last too long in the airlines mentioned above because of inward pressure, assuming you got into such a mainstream airline in the first place. Good old AS didn't last too long flying Lear Jet's before he DEFECTED yet again to J*.... opportunist to the core!
In a lot of ways it is not we that must "get over it", it is your lot, who go through life petrified of a four letter word.
Relax, take a look at your posts, and contemplate a few things you have mentioned. Look DEEP within yourself, and you may notice a trend...
OK, you probably don't understand. You see, you specifically mention China and Japan. Yes, very true that WE couldn't stop YOU lot (assuming you are one of THEM
), but there ain't a whole heck of a lot of 89'ers in China or Japan - we went to THE OTHER airlines - SIA, CX, MAS, Emirates, Gulf, KLM, Lufthansa, Martinair, British Midlands, Royal Brunei.... I'll let you stew over the reason why you don't find many NON-THEM in China, Taiwan, Vietnam, Cambodia, and Japan.YOU lot generally don't last too long in the airlines mentioned above because of inward pressure, assuming you got into such a mainstream airline in the first place. Good old AS didn't last too long flying Lear Jet's before he DEFECTED yet again to J*.... opportunist to the core!
In a lot of ways it is not we that must "get over it", it is your lot, who go through life petrified of a four letter word.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Interesting jobs? You betcha!
Interesting places? I got to travel the WORLD, many times over, with food and accommodation paid....places that I could never have afforded (the time, nor the $$'s) to have visited, places I hadn't considered before, and places that I NEVER intended going to, but went anyway.
Europe, the Greek Islands, the Taj Mahal, on safari in Kruger National Park, ski-ing at Whistler, surfing in Hawaii, halibut in H Street, Anchorage (followed by a few more cold ones at a pole dancing pub), Universal Studios in L.A., scuba diving in the Maldives and Mauritius....and loads more.
And that was only the first 6 years, based in Singapore.
The next 12 months was a basing in Manila, followed by a few years living in Kuala Lumpur - with the occasional temporary basing in Phnom Penh, and the last 5+ years living in Japan.
Yes, there are the very few "non-cream" around, but they were ALWAYS in the minority anyway, and so remain insignificant.
However, like an oil slick, it only takes a small amount to spoil the existing status quo for everyone else - hence the need to "contain" them.
And they ARE being "contained"
Interesting places? I got to travel the WORLD, many times over, with food and accommodation paid....places that I could never have afforded (the time, nor the $$'s) to have visited, places I hadn't considered before, and places that I NEVER intended going to, but went anyway.
Europe, the Greek Islands, the Taj Mahal, on safari in Kruger National Park, ski-ing at Whistler, surfing in Hawaii, halibut in H Street, Anchorage (followed by a few more cold ones at a pole dancing pub), Universal Studios in L.A., scuba diving in the Maldives and Mauritius....and loads more.
And that was only the first 6 years, based in Singapore.
The next 12 months was a basing in Manila, followed by a few years living in Kuala Lumpur - with the occasional temporary basing in Phnom Penh, and the last 5+ years living in Japan.
Yes, there are the very few "non-cream" around, but they were ALWAYS in the minority anyway, and so remain insignificant.
However, like an oil slick, it only takes a small amount to spoil the existing status quo for everyone else - hence the need to "contain" them.
And they ARE being "contained"
Interesting POV Kap,
Some time ago I accused you of trying to limit peoples job opertunitites if they fell in to the group you don't like. You threatened me with legal action, claiming that what I had accused you of was "The lowest act" someone could perpetrate.
Care to expand of this "containment"???
BTW, Three years on and I'VE done things and been places I would never have dreamed of.. and been "contained" to only getting three airline jobs (and more than one other offer) since AN went down...
Some time ago I accused you of trying to limit peoples job opertunitites if they fell in to the group you don't like. You threatened me with legal action, claiming that what I had accused you of was "The lowest act" someone could perpetrate.
Care to expand of this "containment"???
BTW, Three years on and I'VE done things and been places I would never have dreamed of.. and been "contained" to only getting three airline jobs (and more than one other offer) since AN went down...
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Wizofoz,
Interesting closing remark - one can read a lot into it!
You said, and I quote "BTW, Three years on and I'VE done things and been places I would never have dreamed of.. and been "contained" to only getting three airline jobs (and more than one other offer) since AN went down..."
OK, why have you had 3 jobs??? Couldn't you stick at one???? Did you have inwards and sidewards pressure forcing you out??? Itchy feet??? Tell us more. I personally have stayed in ONE job for 15 years...
Tinpis, hero is what we call Scab's so they don't get all offended and cry to the Woomeri. A four letter word is a four letter word...
Interesting closing remark - one can read a lot into it!
You said, and I quote "BTW, Three years on and I'VE done things and been places I would never have dreamed of.. and been "contained" to only getting three airline jobs (and more than one other offer) since AN went down..."
OK, why have you had 3 jobs??? Couldn't you stick at one???? Did you have inwards and sidewards pressure forcing you out??? Itchy feet??? Tell us more. I personally have stayed in ONE job for 15 years...
Tinpis, hero is what we call Scab's so they don't get all offended and cry to the Woomeri. A four letter word is a four letter word...
RTA,
Both the jobs I left I did so because of a combination of carreer and personal/family consideratios. I both cases I did so In accord with contractual obligations, and left on good terms with offers of future employment should I choose to return.
Now very happily employed in Europe (Amsterdam-Cologne today) with no intentins of going anywhere, though in todays market being in the same job for 15years usually means a lack of imagination or ability to progress...
Both the jobs I left I did so because of a combination of carreer and personal/family consideratios. I both cases I did so In accord with contractual obligations, and left on good terms with offers of future employment should I choose to return.
Now very happily employed in Europe (Amsterdam-Cologne today) with no intentins of going anywhere, though in todays market being in the same job for 15years usually means a lack of imagination or ability to progress...
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being in the same job for 15years usually means a lack of imagination or ability to progress...
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Three different employers in as many years!
Well that's just proves that the job market is wide open, for anyone who tends to think otherwise.
But on the personal side of things, Wiz, you might now understand that a psyche such as that, was probably what PREVENTED you from gaining employment in an airline, prior to "that year" - an "attitude" that would have shone through in the psychological tests, and interviews.
What sort of "imagination" are we talking about??? I imagine the imagination you were imagining when you wrote that is the sort of "imagination" some pilots use in their log books, or to cover a shady past.
And as for
I don't believe I have heard a greater load of bs recently. Almost every pilot who joined an airline, and committed himself to THAT length of time in their sole employ, has found himself upgraded in either status, or type - or both.
It is those who WEREN'T ABLE to cut it, who have HAD to move on, to start over again.
Try pulling the other one, Wiz!!
Well that's just proves that the job market is wide open, for anyone who tends to think otherwise.
But on the personal side of things, Wiz, you might now understand that a psyche such as that, was probably what PREVENTED you from gaining employment in an airline, prior to "that year" - an "attitude" that would have shone through in the psychological tests, and interviews.
15years usually means a lack of imagination or ability to progress...
And as for
being in the same job for 15years usually means a lack of...ability to progress...
It is those who WEREN'T ABLE to cut it, who have HAD to move on, to start over again.
....offers of future employment should I choose to return.