ALL NAC pilots threatened with sack!
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Industrial Relation and 'Labour Hire'
For those interested:
There is currently a Industrial Relations test case being conducted in NSW in relation to the use of sub-contractors through 'Labour-Hire' companies.
The arguement in part as I understand it is the blurred line for employees in regards to insurance and liabilities, OH&S responsibilities (i.e who's is it), security of benifits entitlements and superannuation (which I think by law must be safe from business economic failures).
Since IR policy is only at individual state and territory level, this will not have an immediate impact on other areas of australia. However, generally most states and territories tend to follow eachother eventually (yes eventually i.e GA Pilots Award finally being recognised in NT in march 2004!!)
May be relevant down the track for the NT.
LNO
There is currently a Industrial Relations test case being conducted in NSW in relation to the use of sub-contractors through 'Labour-Hire' companies.
The arguement in part as I understand it is the blurred line for employees in regards to insurance and liabilities, OH&S responsibilities (i.e who's is it), security of benifits entitlements and superannuation (which I think by law must be safe from business economic failures).
Since IR policy is only at individual state and territory level, this will not have an immediate impact on other areas of australia. However, generally most states and territories tend to follow eachother eventually (yes eventually i.e GA Pilots Award finally being recognised in NT in march 2004!!)
May be relevant down the track for the NT.
LNO
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I doubt that there is much going on between the current NT (Labor) government and HA. Although he would accept money from anyone, ......... Let's keep politics our of this!!! 
Woomera.
Can anyone from NAC actually post what the proposed EBA was? Love to show it to some lawyer mates for their legal opinion on how protected they are.
I also heard the the old Citation only gets moved to stop the grass under it from dying from too much shade. Does it actually fly much or is just for show?
Woomera. Can anyone from NAC actually post what the proposed EBA was? Love to show it to some lawyer mates for their legal opinion on how protected they are.
I also heard the the old Citation only gets moved to stop the grass under it from dying from too much shade. Does it actually fly much or is just for show?
Last edited by Woomera; 30th Jul 2004 at 07:40.
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This whole caper reeks of the "Water front dispute" several years ago where peoples entitlements were held in a "shelf" company much like BPS. Shelf company colapses and the main company wipes its hands clean of any responsibilities. From memory Patricks was involved and dont they own half of Virgin Blue
. Peter Reith was in it up to his rrse hole. Training ex army blokes off shore to take over from the workers holding the picket line. Howard Gov wiped its hands then and certainly wont do a damn thing this time(nor will appropriate NT body). It will be interesting if any new pilots who do read this thread are actually considering taking jobs of those that hold the line.
LNO - I think you've been a victim of too many Big Cath & CPTOP IR lectures
. Peter Reith was in it up to his rrse hole. Training ex army blokes off shore to take over from the workers holding the picket line. Howard Gov wiped its hands then and certainly wont do a damn thing this time(nor will appropriate NT body). It will be interesting if any new pilots who do read this thread are actually considering taking jobs of those that hold the line.LNO - I think you've been a victim of too many Big Cath & CPTOP IR lectures
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Strangely I have seen HA's new toy twice now at NAC's (so called) new base, but if I remember correctly I saw a plane load of our I.F's getting into it last time........
So much for a VIP machine!!!
So much for a VIP machine!!!
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Some food for thought..
My commiserations to those at NAC during this difficult time.
Skurgler is quite correct. To resign will place you into a difficult position. In the event that push comes to shove and you are 'retrenched' by HA (whoever he is...), you will be in a much better position to take a civil action against the company. By remaining employed by NAC, you are also able to add weight to the assertion that you are loyal staff and just standing up to your rights ect. It may well be that the IRC will then order HA to coply with the award/EBA. IF YOU RESIGN AND JOIN BPS, ALL BETS ARE OFF. Demand some good advice from AFAP.
Put pressure on BPA by deeming that any pilot employed by the labor hire firm that works at NAC is a scab. Due to the events of '89 in particular, there are many companies that will not employ those on a 'scab' list. This is world wide, not just in Australia. Those short sighted enough to take your jobs will find that their future career options are limited. Such individuals will almost certainly never be employed at Virgin Blue, National Jet, Skywest, Eastern, Alliance, Skippers... does'nt leave many future options for such individuals, eh? A short career but merry?
All the best with the fight.
Skurgler is quite correct. To resign will place you into a difficult position. In the event that push comes to shove and you are 'retrenched' by HA (whoever he is...), you will be in a much better position to take a civil action against the company. By remaining employed by NAC, you are also able to add weight to the assertion that you are loyal staff and just standing up to your rights ect. It may well be that the IRC will then order HA to coply with the award/EBA. IF YOU RESIGN AND JOIN BPS, ALL BETS ARE OFF. Demand some good advice from AFAP.
Put pressure on BPA by deeming that any pilot employed by the labor hire firm that works at NAC is a scab. Due to the events of '89 in particular, there are many companies that will not employ those on a 'scab' list. This is world wide, not just in Australia. Those short sighted enough to take your jobs will find that their future career options are limited. Such individuals will almost certainly never be employed at Virgin Blue, National Jet, Skywest, Eastern, Alliance, Skippers... does'nt leave many future options for such individuals, eh? A short career but merry?
All the best with the fight.
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If all of this is true!!
How will this company stand up to the next ATO audit?
I have heard that it is a major offence not to pay superannuation to employees.
..and ATO fines will turn a business to ashes faster than industrial disputes.
U2
How will this company stand up to the next ATO audit?
I have heard that it is a major offence not to pay superannuation to employees.
..and ATO fines will turn a business to ashes faster than industrial disputes.
U2
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I here the boys and girls are not exactly lining up to sign the new agreement. Of all the posters here giving advise on not signing and choosing to resign, how many of those will offer the NAC pilots jobs because they stood by the industry and did the right thing? And if we are going to do a scabs list, why not put every person on there who has flown for free or under the award on it. Not just those stuck in a very public situation? Who has skydived for nothing or close to it, done a few ferry flights for under the award? Plenty of people out there for sure. Whats going on is NOT RIGHT AND I AM NOT SUPPORTING IT but go easy on the drivers. They are in a pretty tight spot. It's easy to give advice when looking from the outside.
good luck to all involved...
good luck to all involved...
Update
On very good advice, the new employment contract at NAC is extremely flawed and viewed as an illegal method of HA dodging his award obligations, which will result in HA being slugged for a huge bill in backpay.
Why he doesn't just bite the bullet and pay what he is supposed to is beyond me. People might actually like him.
Why he doesn't just bite the bullet and pay what he is supposed to is beyond me. People might actually like him.
News just to hand
HA's Chief Pilot has just given his notice. Maybe the pressure got too much with all the action over the past few weeks.
I am sure HA will try to talk him in to staying, so watch this space.
I am sure HA will try to talk him in to staying, so watch this space.
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It's not my intention to hi-jack this thread re issues of salary etc, however ...............
I have been employed in G.A for 30 years and have worked for numerous companies and have never had any problems in regards renumeration in accordance with the award.
Being paid the award is your entitlement and a sensible discussion with management can generally resolve these issues. Likewise I enjoyed 12 years with a low capacity RPT operator as a free lance casual hire pilot. They paid superannuation, pro rate LOL payments, renewals, recency, award wages and all claims for phone, meals etc.
There was a thread on 'Prune' a year or two ago along the lines of what people are paid, and I was NOT surprised to find that there were many many pilots who like me enjoy award + 30% or in that vicinity.
A proper and reasoned approach to management will always be fruitfull. I was in Darwin a few weeks ago and from what I saw of the conduct of a number of pilots, they simply don't deserve to have a job. In fighting and bad mouthing your employer in a 'public house' (hotel/pub) etc does not do your cause any good.
I'm a member of the AFAP simply because of the Loss of Licence insurance fund, I've never had to call on them for support. I live where I choose to live, not where I have to go to obtain work.
Keep it legal, work hard, and have fun! Its really that easy.
I have been employed in G.A for 30 years and have worked for numerous companies and have never had any problems in regards renumeration in accordance with the award.
Being paid the award is your entitlement and a sensible discussion with management can generally resolve these issues. Likewise I enjoyed 12 years with a low capacity RPT operator as a free lance casual hire pilot. They paid superannuation, pro rate LOL payments, renewals, recency, award wages and all claims for phone, meals etc.
There was a thread on 'Prune' a year or two ago along the lines of what people are paid, and I was NOT surprised to find that there were many many pilots who like me enjoy award + 30% or in that vicinity.
A proper and reasoned approach to management will always be fruitfull. I was in Darwin a few weeks ago and from what I saw of the conduct of a number of pilots, they simply don't deserve to have a job. In fighting and bad mouthing your employer in a 'public house' (hotel/pub) etc does not do your cause any good.
I'm a member of the AFAP simply because of the Loss of Licence insurance fund, I've never had to call on them for support. I live where I choose to live, not where I have to go to obtain work.
Keep it legal, work hard, and have fun! Its really that easy.
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Cplane,
Although it's great that you have enjoyed a long career being paid the legal award plus 30 perecent plus all the incidentals, I think the guys at NAC are being offered something less than the award and without the incidentals or the right to negotiate. It's a case of accept the deal, sign and back to work or goodbye.
I'm sure if they were being offered the award plus one percent then this thread would never have appeared.
I do agree however that there are a lot of tossrs up there who don't deserve a job based on their bad attitudes, no argument there.
Although it's great that you have enjoyed a long career being paid the legal award plus 30 perecent plus all the incidentals, I think the guys at NAC are being offered something less than the award and without the incidentals or the right to negotiate. It's a case of accept the deal, sign and back to work or goodbye.
I'm sure if they were being offered the award plus one percent then this thread would never have appeared.
I do agree however that there are a lot of tossrs up there who don't deserve a job based on their bad attitudes, no argument there.
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Cplane
Congratulations on your brilliant 30 year career in “G.A.” It’s obviously been a dream run for you and your award plus 30.
The guys at NAC deserve medials for what they put up with, and for so long.
True, there maybe be a few morons there but you get that with any job but does that mean they deserve less.
The award was made mandatory in the NT for a reason. But, unfortunately one man thinks he is above the law and decided to pull the wool over people’s eyes. What a joke. I guess it will all be solved at the meeting with AFAP.
Cplane, my tip is stay were you are in your world of G.A. dreams life looks peaceful there. Its that easy.
Love Loc.
Congratulations on your brilliant 30 year career in “G.A.” It’s obviously been a dream run for you and your award plus 30.
The guys at NAC deserve medials for what they put up with, and for so long.
True, there maybe be a few morons there but you get that with any job but does that mean they deserve less.
The award was made mandatory in the NT for a reason. But, unfortunately one man thinks he is above the law and decided to pull the wool over people’s eyes. What a joke. I guess it will all be solved at the meeting with AFAP.
Cplane, my tip is stay were you are in your world of G.A. dreams life looks peaceful there. Its that easy.
Love Loc.
