Australian ATC controllers world's worst?
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Chris,
I am not a SY ATC. I was merely suggesting you state a few more facts.
The points I raised were merely from my knowledge of flying in and around SY.
You didn't mention a date - if you did, I am sure someone from SY ATC could provide some input.
I am not a SY ATC. I was merely suggesting you state a few more facts.
The points I raised were merely from my knowledge of flying in and around SY.
You didn't mention a date - if you did, I am sure someone from SY ATC could provide some input.
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Chris Higgins
I cannot explain the BK delay which you reported and suggest that must have been a BK problem. However, I am also unable to find a Sydney controller who can explain to why you would have received a "clearance denied" for the WOL - BK leg. Even if 07 was in use there is a IFR route available, and that is via ODALE. Unfortunately you have not provided enough information to validate your story. I accept your version of the events but there is something missing if we are ever to get to the truth of the matter. Controllers do not simply deny clearances without offering an alternative or an explanation. Next time you are in Sydney try to visit the ATC Centre. Visitors are welcome.
Vampire 91
I cannot explain the BK delay which you reported and suggest that must have been a BK problem. However, I am also unable to find a Sydney controller who can explain to why you would have received a "clearance denied" for the WOL - BK leg. Even if 07 was in use there is a IFR route available, and that is via ODALE. Unfortunately you have not provided enough information to validate your story. I accept your version of the events but there is something missing if we are ever to get to the truth of the matter. Controllers do not simply deny clearances without offering an alternative or an explanation. Next time you are in Sydney try to visit the ATC Centre. Visitors are welcome.
Vampire 91
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Let me tell you something about Australian "Air traffic Controllers" especially at Sydney.
In the late 1980's, when the mass pilot walkout occurred, several Uk operators sent A/C and crews to help out. To cut a long story short, the ATC there made it a crusade, to obstruct, intimate and try set up some of those crews for a violation, both in the air and on the ground. Covering their own a**** at the same time.
The company I used to work for, did several charters to Australia at that time and we were given the same treatment as they thought we were s**** also. I saw a lot of this at first hand.
I got the impression that some of the Australian controller's priorities were the union first and safety second.
They may think they are the best but they most certainly are not. A much more dangerous senerio I have yet to see.
In the late 1980's, when the mass pilot walkout occurred, several Uk operators sent A/C and crews to help out. To cut a long story short, the ATC there made it a crusade, to obstruct, intimate and try set up some of those crews for a violation, both in the air and on the ground. Covering their own a**** at the same time.
The company I used to work for, did several charters to Australia at that time and we were given the same treatment as they thought we were s**** also. I saw a lot of this at first hand.
I got the impression that some of the Australian controller's priorities were the union first and safety second.
They may think they are the best but they most certainly are not. A much more dangerous senerio I have yet to see.
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montys ex teaboy
Such a generalisation does you no credit. My recollection of that period was that some of the foreign operators who arrived to provide temporary services were quite unprofessional and appeared not to give a
about Australian procedures. There was certainly no Union push to nail the visitors. My perception of your generalisation is that you were probaly one of the offenders.
Such a generalisation does you no credit. My recollection of that period was that some of the foreign operators who arrived to provide temporary services were quite unprofessional and appeared not to give a
about Australian procedures. There was certainly no Union push to nail the visitors. My perception of your generalisation is that you were probaly one of the offenders.
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Monty,
I have never heard what you say ever before now.
It sounds to me like you have some personal issue to resolve about 'helping out', as you put it, in 1989, that frankly has little to do with the content of this thread.
BTW are you a member of BALPA?
I have never heard what you say ever before now.
It sounds to me like you have some personal issue to resolve about 'helping out', as you put it, in 1989, that frankly has little to do with the content of this thread.
BTW are you a member of BALPA?
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Montys tea boy
Monty,
Its a long time since 89, I worked Sydney tower at the time. I was absolutely amazed at some of the transgressions that the chartered acft did. I am not pointing the finger at you personally. One that will always spring to mind, is the aircraft landing on Rwy16 then proceeding to taxy to the Ansett terminal without talking to anyone, including crossing an active Rwy 07 . You can let somethings go, but really, this was stretching things. We have something called 'a duty of care', if we don't report safety breaches, we can't work to fix them. These conspiracy theories of ATCs being rabid inflexible unionists are frankly boring.
Its a long time since 89, I worked Sydney tower at the time. I was absolutely amazed at some of the transgressions that the chartered acft did. I am not pointing the finger at you personally. One that will always spring to mind, is the aircraft landing on Rwy16 then proceeding to taxy to the Ansett terminal without talking to anyone, including crossing an active Rwy 07 . You can let somethings go, but really, this was stretching things. We have something called 'a duty of care', if we don't report safety breaches, we can't work to fix them. These conspiracy theories of ATCs being rabid inflexible unionists are frankly boring.
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And now for my second bite at the cherry. Thanks Max 1. And others have also confirmed my recollections. One commented that 'we did not get the pick of the bunch' when referring to some of the pilots who arrived to 'help out'. It would be interesting to review the incident reports from that period. Monty's claim that ATC set up crews for incidents is appalling. ATCs do not do that , nor did they need to since some of the crews demonstrated that they were perfectly capable of doing that for themselves. And there were only some which offended. Perhaps the change from the high density traffic environment and unfriendly weather of Europe created a relaxed attitude and a failure to maintain standards. On the other hand perhaps we did not get the pick of the bunch. Whatever the reason there was no excuse for failing to maintain assigned headings, helping ones self to preferred taxiway routings, and entering or crossing active runways without a clearance. It's difficult to see how ATC could possibly set a pilot up for that type of violation. There seems to be a concensus (from my small sample) that some crews did not display the level of professionalism which Australian ATCs were accustomed, and that there was no Union pressure whatsoever on the way ATCs at the time performed there normal duties.
