Useless Aviation Degrees
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We are all acting like a dog chasing its tail, really, nothing new has come up on this thread now for a week or so and if it does that person is knocked straight away.
Come on guys/girls shall we just play friendly on this one and agree to disagree on the topic.
splat
Come on guys/girls shall we just play friendly on this one and agree to disagree on the topic.
splat
Dodgy,
QF will accept the degree instead of HSC maths and physics only if you do maths and physics in first year (or any year). You have to prove the course was sufficiently challenging (not hard)
Czechmate
QF will accept the degree instead of HSC maths and physics only if you do maths and physics in first year (or any year). You have to prove the course was sufficiently challenging (not hard)
Czechmate
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Guys just because you got a degree dosent ness mean you can apply yourself (except maybe in astro physics or some really hard sciencey type stuff that you need to know long division for). I spent four years flatting with uni-students in Palmy and any thought that these guys could apply themselves more than the grunts up the road at the Army camp or the plummer fishing beer cans out of toilet after last nights party is ridiculous. It is worth more to an employerer if you have spent the last 10 years slaving in a crap job to pay foy your CPL, Instructor, IFR, MEIR. Becuase it will mean you know how hard you had to work for a single flying hour. If you did an Av degree it meant that you got suckered into a glossy booklet because it said you were basically at the top of the food chain when it came to gettin g a job. Well guess what happens to your C.V when it goes to the airlines who are supposed to be flocking to give you jobs? It goes right to the bottom of the pile with everybody else, because the guy hiring dose'nt have a degree in Aviation and resents probably that someone would think they are better than he because they do.
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dwnunderblunderer what a narrow minded attitude you have to think that anyone would consider themselves above a hirer in an airline by virtue of that fact they hold a degree. I resent and I am sure most would that you boldly stereotype uni grads as not having done the hard yards.
Take it on a case by case basis and I am sure that you will see otherwise. So what if someone doesn't have a degree, I agree with you on that point. As said previously, having a degree does NOT give you a passage to a left hand seat or make you a better pilot over others. It also does not necessarily make you a worse pilot.
So what if someone has done the hard yards and payed for every single flying hour but also has a degree, are you going to mock them too for a choose they made to complete a degree.
Ang
Take it on a case by case basis and I am sure that you will see otherwise. So what if someone doesn't have a degree, I agree with you on that point. As said previously, having a degree does NOT give you a passage to a left hand seat or make you a better pilot over others. It also does not necessarily make you a worse pilot.
So what if someone has done the hard yards and payed for every single flying hour but also has a degree, are you going to mock them too for a choose they made to complete a degree.
Ang
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Thanks Ang, well said.
Not everyone who has a degree gets the easy life. Yet again, more stereo-types.
Dwnunderblunderer, having a degree does not imply good airmanship or good flying skills, it implies that you have a DEGREE. Your skills will be tested when you apply for a job and it is highly likely that an aviation degree will develop your skills to a higher level, increasing your chances of getting hired and making you a safer pilot. (See the post from 4 Greens earlier)
And Azzurri, I dont know where you get your info from but respectfully you are quite wrong my friend. Maybe your degrees in Italy / the U.S. are 'fluff' but over here they are regarded by those in the know as being highly worthwhile for both pilots and management.
Anyway, as someone previously said (my appologies for not referencing a name) this thread is going nowhere. Why dont we all go and do some research then we'll start up a new thread in a few months. Just jokes.
Not everyone who has a degree gets the easy life. Yet again, more stereo-types.
Dwnunderblunderer, having a degree does not imply good airmanship or good flying skills, it implies that you have a DEGREE. Your skills will be tested when you apply for a job and it is highly likely that an aviation degree will develop your skills to a higher level, increasing your chances of getting hired and making you a safer pilot. (See the post from 4 Greens earlier)
And Azzurri, I dont know where you get your info from but respectfully you are quite wrong my friend. Maybe your degrees in Italy / the U.S. are 'fluff' but over here they are regarded by those in the know as being highly worthwhile for both pilots and management.
Anyway, as someone previously said (my appologies for not referencing a name) this thread is going nowhere. Why dont we all go and do some research then we'll start up a new thread in a few months.
Just jokes.
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Well fair enough then if you think I'm narrow minded, after re-reading my post it would read very narrow minded if I had have never had anything to do with these people who complete degrees. But, I have had a bit to do with them in GA and I have had this discussion with NZ based op's managers. I would never think that a grad would be less of a handler and I am pretty sure I never implied this either. Any pilot who would make an assumption on somebodies flying skills based on there choosing to do a degree would be wrong. What I was trying to say is employers want someone who paid for AT LEAST the bulk of there flying. Lets face it most grads borrowed the lot of the govt. If you want ring and ask the ops man at Ealgle, Origion, Air Nelson, Vincient, etc etc, what they reckon.
The prob with this media (internet forums) is there is no tone to the points made by individuals. Most of us don't really want you to resent our comments but take them with the same gran of salt we take yours. But we all know this. (esp the grads who have completed Bus Comms papers as part of their degrees.)
If you have a degree good on you (I am serious and not cynical). Of course you have something worth while, but it dose not make you more attractive as an FO to an employer over someone who has worked for 5 years to earn 75 thousand dollars to pay for it themselves.
The prob with this media (internet forums) is there is no tone to the points made by individuals. Most of us don't really want you to resent our comments but take them with the same gran of salt we take yours. But we all know this. (esp the grads who have completed Bus Comms papers as part of their degrees.)
If you have a degree good on you (I am serious and not cynical). Of course you have something worth while, but it dose not make you more attractive as an FO to an employer over someone who has worked for 5 years to earn 75 thousand dollars to pay for it themselves.
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In reference to this topic; I think we should all grow up and try to live in the real world of aviation rather than commenting on whether there are 12 eggs or a dozen eggs in the container we buy at the supermarket. Move on folks.
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dwnunderblunderer
With your obvious lack of english skills, particularly spelling, it is probably fair to say that you also lack the ability to complete a degree, and therefore, like most individuals who suffer from insecurity, your only defence is to attack those who do have the skills that you do not.
Are you an employer? I didn't think so. So what gives you the ability to espouse what employers want.
The way you judge others such as plumbers (yes, it has a "b" in it), or those who joined the army is extremely narrow-minded. They obviously have had to apply themselves to achieve success in their chosen professions.
You degrade their choice of occupation, as though they are second-class citizens.
I have done my share of the hard yards, and at the same time, I have earned my degree. I was not born with a silver spoon in my mouth, as you would suggest. I have worked hard for what I have, and I realise that somebody as uneducated as you appear to be should not be allowed to devalue my achievements, or the achievements of other similar individuals.
With your obvious lack of english skills, particularly spelling, it is probably fair to say that you also lack the ability to complete a degree, and therefore, like most individuals who suffer from insecurity, your only defence is to attack those who do have the skills that you do not.
What I was trying to say is employers want someone who paid for AT LEAST the bulk of there flying.
The way you judge others such as plumbers (yes, it has a "b" in it), or those who joined the army is extremely narrow-minded. They obviously have had to apply themselves to achieve success in their chosen professions.
You degrade their choice of occupation, as though they are second-class citizens.
I have done my share of the hard yards, and at the same time, I have earned my degree. I was not born with a silver spoon in my mouth, as you would suggest. I have worked hard for what I have, and I realise that somebody as uneducated as you appear to be should not be allowed to devalue my achievements, or the achievements of other similar individuals.
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Hey Richard head, I spent 10 years in the forces you f-nuckle. Some of my best mates have degrees and I have the better part of one myself. I expect to complete it sometime in my mid thirties, not because i'm thick but because I'm gonna f*ucken pay for it my self the way people used to do. F*ck your spelling too num(no "B")nuts.
Nunc est bibendum
Just goes to show that ten years of being an 'officer and a gentleman' as well as a nearly completed tertiary education has added nothing to the manners and constructing arguments skills! 
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Alright fine. You guys win. I apoligise for being rude. When someone accuses me of trying to belittle soldiers and pum(b)ers I get pissed off. I have nothing but respect for any man/woman who works hard at no matter what they do. Hard work is what should be done to earn the good things in life. I have been there done that and still doing it. There is just too many kids on fully funded student loans getting handouts and then claiming to be better than me cause they have a bit of paper. If you my annoyanceat this disturbing then I would suggest you are in the minority. Sorry once again for hurting anyones feelings. 
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dwnunderblunderer
A nice apology.
By the way I did an Aviation degree at age fifty because I felt that I might learn something…and I did. Surprising the different light such a degree sheds on your chosen craft. You tend to look at management issues from alternative perspectives instead of following the flow. Most of the knockers shoot aviation students down because they themselves don’t have the incentive to study further or fear graduates will move into the better jobs. Line pilots will always be in demand and a degree won’t make a lot of difference if they have the flying skills and take the time to keep up with the ‘nuts and bolts’ theory. A pilot with an aviation degree may reinforce his commitment to the job in the eyes of a hiring manager and secure an advantage. He may also progress from the line to a management role where he will be better able to reinforce the lot for the guys left on the line.
As for the young people ‘bludging on the government’ I would like to put forward another side. My own lad chose a degree course in aerospace engineering. Every dollar I opt to contribute to his education will have already been taxed at around forty-nine cents before payment to the educator. He therefore studied using the HECS system. I would like to have been in a better financial position and able to support him, but on the other hand I think he prefers to be independent. When he graduates next month he will enter the employment arena with a substantial debt to repay to the government. The aviation students you refer to will be in the same boat, repaying a loan for a degree that the knockers call useless.
A nice apology.
By the way I did an Aviation degree at age fifty because I felt that I might learn something…and I did. Surprising the different light such a degree sheds on your chosen craft. You tend to look at management issues from alternative perspectives instead of following the flow. Most of the knockers shoot aviation students down because they themselves don’t have the incentive to study further or fear graduates will move into the better jobs. Line pilots will always be in demand and a degree won’t make a lot of difference if they have the flying skills and take the time to keep up with the ‘nuts and bolts’ theory. A pilot with an aviation degree may reinforce his commitment to the job in the eyes of a hiring manager and secure an advantage. He may also progress from the line to a management role where he will be better able to reinforce the lot for the guys left on the line.
As for the young people ‘bludging on the government’ I would like to put forward another side. My own lad chose a degree course in aerospace engineering. Every dollar I opt to contribute to his education will have already been taxed at around forty-nine cents before payment to the educator. He therefore studied using the HECS system. I would like to have been in a better financial position and able to support him, but on the other hand I think he prefers to be independent. When he graduates next month he will enter the employment arena with a substantial debt to repay to the government. The aviation students you refer to will be in the same boat, repaying a loan for a degree that the knockers call useless.
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I'm sure its agreed that you dont need a degree if all you're going to be doing is ag-spraying etc etc & as mentioned before, stick & rudder skill ain't that hard! (I mean no offence to those who do it well)
However Aviation specific degrees introduce you to areas that are very relevant and useful... i.e CRM, Human Factors & Aviation Business/Economics & Safety Management.
I work in a small seaplane charter company and already use these skills all the time, along with all the other stuff like carting 44gal drums around.... and I havent finished my degree yet!
Sure, a more general degree will be useful too, but to date, engineers dont study Human Factors, and its a fairly vital consideration in their field!
Don't knock it 'til you try it.... and maybe not as much in GA, but an aviation degree will put you ahead of someone who doesnt have one.
However Aviation specific degrees introduce you to areas that are very relevant and useful... i.e CRM, Human Factors & Aviation Business/Economics & Safety Management.
I work in a small seaplane charter company and already use these skills all the time, along with all the other stuff like carting 44gal drums around.... and I havent finished my degree yet!
Sure, a more general degree will be useful too, but to date, engineers dont study Human Factors, and its a fairly vital consideration in their field!
Don't knock it 'til you try it.... and maybe not as much in GA, but an aviation degree will put you ahead of someone who doesnt have one.
Thread Starter
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I agree, an aviation degree will put you ahead of someone who doesnt have one. But take the 3 years and the money and put it towards experience, or ratings and you will be way ahead of somebody who spent their 3 years doing the B.Av.
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Crock
Hi All
I heard on the news this morning that the federal government in their infinant wisdom have given unis the green light to charge an additional 25% for fees and they now have the ability to legally reserve one third of the places to full fee paying students.
If it wasn't expensive and hard enough to get a degree before, it is now. The education system is becoming more and more like the US system where there are those that have and those that don't. If you have a fat pocket then the world your oyster. If not then join the queue with the rest of middle class Oz busting their guts to get ahead (one word)...
Thats my gripe...
Ang
I heard on the news this morning that the federal government in their infinant wisdom have given unis the green light to charge an additional 25% for fees and they now have the ability to legally reserve one third of the places to full fee paying students.
If it wasn't expensive and hard enough to get a degree before, it is now. The education system is becoming more and more like the US system where there are those that have and those that don't. If you have a fat pocket then the world your oyster. If not then join the queue with the rest of middle class Oz busting their guts to get ahead (one word)...
Thats my gripe...
Ang
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I'm in the middle of an aviation degree having made the decision that it's worthwhile. Whether or not remains to be seen.
I expect to complete it sometime in my mid thirties, not because i'm thick but because I'm gonna f*ucken pay for it my self the way people used to do.
There is just too many kids on fully funded student loans getting handouts and then claiming to be better than me cause they have a bit of paper.
To start attacking students' source of funding to complete any tertiary education is ridiculous and has nothing to do with this 'discussion'. Whether you pay for a course with daddy's money, after working in the supermarket for 5 years or with your winning lotto ticket is irrelevant. It's a LOAN not a HANDOUT.
I expect to complete it sometime in my mid thirties, not because i'm thick but because I'm gonna f*ucken pay for it my self the way people used to do.
There is just too many kids on fully funded student loans getting handouts and then claiming to be better than me cause they have a bit of paper.
To start attacking students' source of funding to complete any tertiary education is ridiculous and has nothing to do with this 'discussion'. Whether you pay for a course with daddy's money, after working in the supermarket for 5 years or with your winning lotto ticket is irrelevant. It's a LOAN not a HANDOUT.
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True, 3 years of experience and ratings will put you ahead too, but what about both? It can be done.
And what about if you're in a very small aviation business? All the hours and ratings in the world won't bring you business or necessarily keep it safe. This is where academic education such as marketing or safety management incorporated into an aviation degree is applied.
And what about if you're in a very small aviation business? All the hours and ratings in the world won't bring you business or necessarily keep it safe. This is where academic education such as marketing or safety management incorporated into an aviation degree is applied.
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Right on disco.
Pilots are ultimately in the business of safe aircraft operations, so a degree comprising of flight systems knowledge, aerodynamics, safety management, human factors and other CRM issues and a small amount of airline operations would be ideal.
Hang on........ isn't that what many current degrees offer??
The degrees are relatively new (6 or so years) so I'm sure with a bit of time and industry reccomendation they will become more and more relevant. Like anything it will take time to mature.
Pilots are ultimately in the business of safe aircraft operations, so a degree comprising of flight systems knowledge, aerodynamics, safety management, human factors and other CRM issues and a small amount of airline operations would be ideal.
Hang on........ isn't that what many current degrees offer??
The degrees are relatively new (6 or so years) so I'm sure with a bit of time and industry reccomendation they will become more and more relevant. Like anything it will take time to mature.