Airline pilot pay
Hmmmm
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Not me.
That doesn't pay for a modest mortgage on a modest 3 br house in a regional centre, a couple of average cars, and a young family that likes to eat something better than baked beans every night.
Problem is that a lot of pilots that would take that sort of money, do so when they still have stars in their eyes about flying jets.
Eventually you may realise that although it is a good job, its just another aeroplane, maybe a little more comfortable to go to work in than a C210, and that a room in a four-five star hotel is never as nice as your own lounge room, and that there are other interests that you want to explore now that you are not changing aircraft types every 12-18 months.
Then you see schoolteachers that have been in their profession for maybe 2 years that earn better than $1500 a week who are on strike because it is NOT ENOUGH FOR A PROFESSIONAL OCCUPATION!
Don't ask the wannabees how much airline pilots should be paid. You may as well ask a ten-year-old.
Ask the veterans, the guys who have tried to run their lives, guide their families and pay their bills from an interstate hotel room, the ones whose professional income is threatened by cancelled medicals when their doctor/lawyer/accountant/teacher equivalents can go to work and earn their professional salaries with heart conditions, overweight, adult-onset diabetes, loss of hearing, etc.
That doesn't pay for a modest mortgage on a modest 3 br house in a regional centre, a couple of average cars, and a young family that likes to eat something better than baked beans every night.
Problem is that a lot of pilots that would take that sort of money, do so when they still have stars in their eyes about flying jets.
Eventually you may realise that although it is a good job, its just another aeroplane, maybe a little more comfortable to go to work in than a C210, and that a room in a four-five star hotel is never as nice as your own lounge room, and that there are other interests that you want to explore now that you are not changing aircraft types every 12-18 months.
Then you see schoolteachers that have been in their profession for maybe 2 years that earn better than $1500 a week who are on strike because it is NOT ENOUGH FOR A PROFESSIONAL OCCUPATION!
Don't ask the wannabees how much airline pilots should be paid. You may as well ask a ten-year-old.
Ask the veterans, the guys who have tried to run their lives, guide their families and pay their bills from an interstate hotel room, the ones whose professional income is threatened by cancelled medicals when their doctor/lawyer/accountant/teacher equivalents can go to work and earn their professional salaries with heart conditions, overweight, adult-onset diabetes, loss of hearing, etc.
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From the wannabees perspective, from memory. Trying to pay bills, guide families and run there lives all from a 1-2 star hotel whilst on a charter to some god foresaken part of the earth aint to flash either. Paying those bills for a rented place that isn't much better than the hotel you're staying in and then returning home to find you only have $50 at most to go shopping with. Character building??? Yes, sometimes. Below the poverty line?? Absolutely. I remember being worse off than most people on the doll and I worked 5 times harder.
I know the question was referred to airline pay but I always have been bewilldered by the massive jump in conditions and pay from the G.A pilot to the Airline pilot. One day I would love to see the G.A pilot get what they deserve. I mean the fulltime guys/gals. RFDS, AIR AMBOS, FULL TIME INSTRUCTORS (dedicated to that career), BANKRUNNERS/ FREIGHTERS, CHARTER, SAR, AIRWORK OPS. The list is huge and the pay is pi..poor in comparison to the Airline salary. How could anybody take G.A seriously in Australia.
I think the conditions of the G.A pilot are a mock to the position and responsibilities involved. Pay bananas get monkeys.
I hope I haven't taken this post down the 'old road' again. Anyway, just out of interest thinking pilot, are you referring to any company/ position in particular that only pays $1,000/wk to be an airline pilot? Perhaps a G.A charter company that has endeavoured to break into the RPT sector?
I know the question was referred to airline pay but I always have been bewilldered by the massive jump in conditions and pay from the G.A pilot to the Airline pilot. One day I would love to see the G.A pilot get what they deserve. I mean the fulltime guys/gals. RFDS, AIR AMBOS, FULL TIME INSTRUCTORS (dedicated to that career), BANKRUNNERS/ FREIGHTERS, CHARTER, SAR, AIRWORK OPS. The list is huge and the pay is pi..poor in comparison to the Airline salary. How could anybody take G.A seriously in Australia.
I think the conditions of the G.A pilot are a mock to the position and responsibilities involved. Pay bananas get monkeys.
I hope I haven't taken this post down the 'old road' again. Anyway, just out of interest thinking pilot, are you referring to any company/ position in particular that only pays $1,000/wk to be an airline pilot? Perhaps a G.A charter company that has endeavoured to break into the RPT sector?
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shaablamm
perhaps the reason for
is that airline pilots, until recent years, have been more or less united and not prone to accept poor or reduced conditions just to do the job.
With the advent of NJS and Virgin and Impulse and market forces, that is changing.
I can only second ITCZs post above. In the end we will earn what the lowest person is prepared to accept.
the massive jump in conditions and pay from the G.A pilot to the Airline pilot.
With the advent of NJS and Virgin and Impulse and market forces, that is changing.
I can only second ITCZs post above. In the end we will earn what the lowest person is prepared to accept.
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Hate to be pessimistic here guys but I think the reality is that award paying GA jobs will in the end pay more than an FO slot on a 737.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the big boys don't have an award rather they have to bargain for it (EBA).
At the last count the score was:
Share Holder +100k vs Pilot -100k (in only 2 years).
I think when an FO slot pays 30k, perhaps in another 2 years, something might give.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the big boys don't have an award rather they have to bargain for it (EBA).
At the last count the score was:
Share Holder +100k vs Pilot -100k (in only 2 years).
I think when an FO slot pays 30k, perhaps in another 2 years, something might give.
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ITCZ you're an ill informed goose
Having a mother and 3 sisters who are all school teachers, they don't make $800 a week let alone $1500 a week. Unless you are the principal of a big high school you don't ever get near that money. My sister has been a high school teacher for 14 years as a year level coordinator and shes on $52,000 a year. So before you guys cry poor for being on $1,000 dollars a week, consider that these people are moulding the countrys future, and in my opinion are grossly underpaid, along with nurses and police.
737 Stats
2-3 years ago F/O Ansett and QF- 100 to 130K
That was then, this is now:
VB-69K minus the cost of the endorsement.
Jetconnect/Freedom- further reductions.
Pacific Blue-around the 40K Australian minus endorsement.
2-3 years gentleman!!!!
Virgin Blue pilots have created a monster and getting a real GA feeling about the 737 in Oceana!
And guys, not a stepping stone to the big paying jobs overseas.
2-3 years ago F/O Ansett and QF- 100 to 130K
That was then, this is now:
VB-69K minus the cost of the endorsement.
Jetconnect/Freedom- further reductions.
Pacific Blue-around the 40K Australian minus endorsement.
2-3 years gentleman!!!!
Virgin Blue pilots have created a monster and getting a real GA feeling about the 737 in Oceana!
And guys, not a stepping stone to the big paying jobs overseas.
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AirNoServices, I have to mention that the stated 1,000AUD/Wk would be the top bracket for the professional pilots in G.A.
Lets look at a figure of around the $300/wk. Would any teacher be getting less than that? I wouldn't think so.
As for them "shaping our counties future" I don't think they are doing a very good job at that either when you look at the way children are schooled these days. I was talking to a 13 yr old who goes to a good Sydney high school that didn't know what U.S.A stood for...... But he could tell me the aboriginal name for Ayers Rock. Great children we seem to be producing these days if that's the standard we shall put on to the world stage. Shaping our future
Lets look at a figure of around the $300/wk. Would any teacher be getting less than that? I wouldn't think so.
As for them "shaping our counties future" I don't think they are doing a very good job at that either when you look at the way children are schooled these days. I was talking to a 13 yr old who goes to a good Sydney high school that didn't know what U.S.A stood for...... But he could tell me the aboriginal name for Ayers Rock. Great children we seem to be producing these days if that's the standard we shall put on to the world stage. Shaping our future
Thread Starter
Mr Shaalbramm
The argument is not cogent, having meet one person who doesn't know the abbreviation of the USA is not an indicator of the overall standard of education.
It sounds like you may have a problem with teachers instead.
The initial question was based on the premise, would people be happy flying for an airline on $1000 dollars a week before tax.
The argument is not cogent, having meet one person who doesn't know the abbreviation of the USA is not an indicator of the overall standard of education.
It sounds like you may have a problem with teachers instead.
The initial question was based on the premise, would people be happy flying for an airline on $1000 dollars a week before tax.
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You guys are more out of touch with reality than I thought if you are targetting teachers as being overpaid. Go after us air traffic controllers if you like but teachers, nurses, police, firemen etc are all underpaid in my opinion.
I just want ITCZ to tell me which teacher he knows makes $1500 a week. Or does he consider the Vice Chancellor of Melbourne University to be a teacher????
You are worth what the market says you are worth. Thats the reality of economics. For a lot of years the market has said airline pilots are worth a lot. Lots of kids have gone out and paid to get there hours under their belt and in conjunction with world aviation collapse, there is a glut of pilots so airlines can pay less and they will, of course.
If there was a shortage of pilots worldwide then you could tell them to jam there offer and look elsewhere but the reality is you can't. Luckily theres a drastic shortage of controllers worldwide and its getting worse
I just want ITCZ to tell me which teacher he knows makes $1500 a week. Or does he consider the Vice Chancellor of Melbourne University to be a teacher????
You are worth what the market says you are worth. Thats the reality of economics. For a lot of years the market has said airline pilots are worth a lot. Lots of kids have gone out and paid to get there hours under their belt and in conjunction with world aviation collapse, there is a glut of pilots so airlines can pay less and they will, of course.
If there was a shortage of pilots worldwide then you could tell them to jam there offer and look elsewhere but the reality is you can't. Luckily theres a drastic shortage of controllers worldwide and its getting worse
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Ok first cab off the rank, PPRUNE Newbie, I have 30 posts less than youand have been a registered contributor since September 2001???
2nd, I work in the Middle East having worked for AirServices for 7 years. So when I joined there was no such thing as a training bond pal.
3rd I trained for 6 months as a teacher before the lure of better pay and better work conditions lured me to ATC.
4th- You were incorrect in your example where you said " in profession for maybe 2 years that earn better than $1,500 a week". You are still to provide evidence of this school teacher making 77,000 and having been teaching for 2 years????
Finally whether you like it or not the market does dictate what we are paid. I went to the middle east where the money is better than here because they have to lure people to go there. There is an oversupply of pilots right now so I say again airlines can offer rubbish money and they still get applicants. Simple really.
One other thing is Work conditions wise, I would prefer to sit in a cockpit in control than spend a day in front of 30 15 year olds who you are struggling to be in control of. Pilots with an airline get reimbursed with allowances for all those nights out of your lounge rooms so the quoted $1,000 a week is a bit decieving isn't it. Also I checked the wage scales in Victoria and a principal of a large city High school makes just above $80,000, and on average takes 15 yrs to reach this level.
By the way, you were having a crack at my comprehension skills, try getting the link to the wagenet website correct fool. Its gov.au not com.au As a final nail in the coffin of your argument I went to the Australian Bureau of Statistics Website and found the following interesting figures:
Over the 15 years to 2000, the average weekly ordinary time earnings of full-time adult non-managerial secondary teachers increased by 76% to $918, while for primary teachers earnings increased by 75% to $875 in 2000. In comparison, the average weekly ordinary time earnings of all full-time adult non-managerial Professionals increased by 86% in this period (to $954).
In the week prior to census night 2001, 35% of Australian teachers had worked between 40 and 49 hours, and 19% had worked more than 50 hours. Male teachers tended to work longer hours than female teachers, with 25% reporting that they worked 50 hours or more in the preceding week, compared with 17% of female teachers.
Now as I was saying, show me your teacher making $1,500 a week 2 years out of Uni, and by the way I'm not your kid, chum or mate.
2nd, I work in the Middle East having worked for AirServices for 7 years. So when I joined there was no such thing as a training bond pal.
3rd I trained for 6 months as a teacher before the lure of better pay and better work conditions lured me to ATC.
4th- You were incorrect in your example where you said " in profession for maybe 2 years that earn better than $1,500 a week". You are still to provide evidence of this school teacher making 77,000 and having been teaching for 2 years????
Finally whether you like it or not the market does dictate what we are paid. I went to the middle east where the money is better than here because they have to lure people to go there. There is an oversupply of pilots right now so I say again airlines can offer rubbish money and they still get applicants. Simple really.
One other thing is Work conditions wise, I would prefer to sit in a cockpit in control than spend a day in front of 30 15 year olds who you are struggling to be in control of. Pilots with an airline get reimbursed with allowances for all those nights out of your lounge rooms so the quoted $1,000 a week is a bit decieving isn't it. Also I checked the wage scales in Victoria and a principal of a large city High school makes just above $80,000, and on average takes 15 yrs to reach this level.
By the way, you were having a crack at my comprehension skills, try getting the link to the wagenet website correct fool. Its gov.au not com.au As a final nail in the coffin of your argument I went to the Australian Bureau of Statistics Website and found the following interesting figures:
Over the 15 years to 2000, the average weekly ordinary time earnings of full-time adult non-managerial secondary teachers increased by 76% to $918, while for primary teachers earnings increased by 75% to $875 in 2000. In comparison, the average weekly ordinary time earnings of all full-time adult non-managerial Professionals increased by 86% in this period (to $954).
In the week prior to census night 2001, 35% of Australian teachers had worked between 40 and 49 hours, and 19% had worked more than 50 hours. Male teachers tended to work longer hours than female teachers, with 25% reporting that they worked 50 hours or more in the preceding week, compared with 17% of female teachers.
Now as I was saying, show me your teacher making $1,500 a week 2 years out of Uni, and by the way I'm not your kid, chum or mate.
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Now all you guys are right in what you say but like always on this forum you all talk in circles! ANoSA fella, you are right but I think you are missing the point from ITCZ in that we are all Proffessionals what is wrong with being paid as one, just because we enjoy our jobs does that mean we should be paid S**t! I reakon teachers nurses and the like in Australia are discustingly underpaid as are GA pilots and the upper level of the Aviation food (pay) chain is is coming toward GA where as it should be the otherway around! As does ATC, engineers etc we all have a seriously big roll in keeping people alive in sometime very demanding situations, and I believe that comes at a cost, like it or not as the flying public . Australia is built on helping people but all we do in this industry is shaft each other, I dont get it! Now you two get off your high horses and debate sensibly instead of all the bullsh*t!
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My dear A-No-sA,
You entered a forum where a pilot asked other pilots what their personal minimum was, pay wise.
You, (an ATCO) dragged the post off topic, by reacting to an incorrect assumption about my regard or lack thereof for the teaching profession.
You did not say "ITCZ, I reckon you need to look at your figures... " Nope. You yanked my chain.
So I gave yours a good yank back.
You missed my point. You were aggressive about it. You hijacked the thread. My reply obviously wound you up, which now pleases me.
You still think you have a point, and I think you don't. We will probably not agree, and as 5hours said, who else gives a rats? Clean up the board and pull the aggressive, off topic posts. Mine's gone to unclog the topic -- i can post it to you if you want it for posterity (does that mean that you can stick it up your ....?)
Now the thread asks: what other PILOTS think is the minimum acceptable for an airline job........?
You entered a forum where a pilot asked other pilots what their personal minimum was, pay wise.
You, (an ATCO) dragged the post off topic, by reacting to an incorrect assumption about my regard or lack thereof for the teaching profession.
You did not say "ITCZ, I reckon you need to look at your figures... " Nope. You yanked my chain.
So I gave yours a good yank back.
You missed my point. You were aggressive about it. You hijacked the thread. My reply obviously wound you up, which now pleases me.
You still think you have a point, and I think you don't. We will probably not agree, and as 5hours said, who else gives a rats? Clean up the board and pull the aggressive, off topic posts. Mine's gone to unclog the topic -- i can post it to you if you want it for posterity (does that mean that you can stick it up your ....?)
Now the thread asks: what other PILOTS think is the minimum acceptable for an airline job........?
Last edited by ITCZ; 24th Sep 2003 at 17:22.