Foreign pilots now allowed to apply for a Green Card?
Hello gents,
i recently have started to see more and more posts on social media such as linkedin, FB, etc..., rumors among colleagues and websites claiming that since the shortage of pilots in the USA, it is now allowed to apply for a Green Card in the US if you are a foreign pilot. http://agimmigration.law/en/aviation/ TO ENCOURAGE THE ARRIVAL OF QUALIFIED PROFESSIONALS TO THE UNITED STATES., WHICH CAN BE EXTENDED TO PILOTS, THE U.S. GOVERNMENT DESIGNED A VISA PROGRAM FOR FOREIGN PROFESSIONALS WHO WISH TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE COUNTRY’S LABOR MARKET BY WORKING IN AREAS OF NATIONAL INTEREST. The EB-2 NIW (National Interest Waiver) visa serves exactly these professionals with outstanding experience and academic background as a pilot. This is a visa that grants the right to legal and permanent residence in the USA through a Green Card. In many cases, a foreign pilot can plead for the EB-2 NIW without even needing a job offer in the U.S., based solely on their qualifications. This is just the first website i found out but there are many others who claim the same. Is it a Scam or legit? Thanks Regards AIM9X |
Possibly…
This application route, for EB2-NIW, has the potential to work. However, it consists of two separate parts. The National Interest Waiver (NIW), for which pilots might successfully petition, and separately the EB2. EB visas typically require a specific job offer (ie a sponsor), and also labour certification. There are two exceptions, certain EB1 individuals (and I don't think many pilots would qualify), and the EB2-NIW. The NIW part allows you to 'self petition', and therefore does not require a job offer or labour certification. However, the petition would probably require a bit more than “here’s my ATP, I hear you are looking…” The requirements for an EB2, are to hold an 'Advanced Degree' or to have ‘Exceptional Ability'. The latter may also be difficult to justify… None of the above constitutes legal advice, but if you have a Masters degree or higher and $10k+ spare, give it a whirl. https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the...reference-eb-1 https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the...reference-eb-2 Good luck |
I'm really looking forward to this. I'm halfway through pilot training in the EU, and would like to move to the US asap. How long do you guys think this opportunity will last? I'll graduate in early 2023, and I already posess an advanced degree in aviation (partially obtained in the US)
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Originally Posted by Chris_767
(Post 11120635)
I'm really looking forward to this. I'm halfway through pilot training in the EU, and would like to move to the US asap. How long do you guys think this opportunity will last? I'll graduate in early 2023, and I already posess an advanced degree in aviation (partially obtained in the US)
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Originally Posted by lee_apromise
(Post 11120781)
A bachelor degree holder from UND couldn't satisfy this requirement with FAA ATP and 1500 hours on jet.
1500 jet hours is a year and a half at European airlines. Anyways, I keep following the updates |
I am sure American pilots who have fought very hard for the last several years (couple of decades really) to get their compensation back to appropriate levels will be thrilled by “invading” European pilots willing to work for peanuts and subpar conditions diluting the US pilot workforce. One can blame the European airlines (or even the EU) for the steady race to the bottom, but in the end it is the pilots themselves who allowed it to happen.
I say this as a European with a Green Card since more than a decade back and who has refused to participate in the lousy European aviation market (Green Card or not I have never actually worked in Europe) due to the above. Too many pilots in euroland willing to sell their mother to stay flying all while just thinking about “me, me, me now” instead of “us and long term” which is the main difference in the mentality between (the majority of) European and US pilots. Any European pilot making the move across the pond better be ready to ditch that attitude real fast or you won’t make any friends in the US pilot group. Ducking for cover… |
Originally Posted by FlyTCI
(Post 11121237)
I am sure American pilots who have fought very hard for the last several years (couple of decades really) to get their compensation back to appropriate levels will be thrilled by “invading” European pilots willing to work for peanuts and subpar conditions diluting the US pilot workforce. One can blame the European airlines (or even the EU) for the steady race to the bottom, but in the end it is the pilots themselves who allowed it to happen.
I say this as a European with a Green Card since more than a decade back and who has refused to participate in the lousy European aviation market (Green Card or not I have never actually worked in Europe) due to the above. Too many pilots in euroland willing to sell their mother to stay flying all while just thinking about “me, me, me now” instead of “us and long term” which is the main difference in the mentality between (the majority of) European and US pilots. Any European pilot making the move across the pond better be ready to ditch that attitude real fast or you won’t make any friends in the US pilot group. Ducking for cover… |
Originally Posted by FlyTCI
(Post 11121237)
I am sure American pilots who have fought very hard for the last several years (couple of decades really) to get their compensation back to appropriate levels will be thrilled by “invading” European pilots willing to work for peanuts and subpar conditions diluting the US pilot workforce.
They don't negotiate for pay on an individual level (outside of some corporate or other job) so therefore don't have an opportunity to greatly influence pay levels one way or another. And there are too few of them in the Big Picture to have much of an effect in any form. Now, should pilots as a profession stand together to influence pay ? Probably but they haven't so they won't. Too many unions, too many companies would require too much coordination. |
Originally Posted by bafanguy
(Post 11121268)
Pilots who come here from anywhere work for existing pay rates. They don't negotiate for pay on an individual level (outside of some corporate or other job) so therefore don't have an opportunity to greatly influence pay levels one way or another. And there are too few of them in the Big Picture to have much of an effect in any form.
I would hope that those who actually do come over (should the above program actually work) are of the go getter type who, just like me, refuse to accept the way pilots have (again, allowed themselves) to be treated on the old continent. |
Originally Posted by FlyTCI
(Post 11121275)
I don’t disagree with the above, but what I am trying to tell those who do end up coming over is that they need to completely change their mindset and get with the program ASAP.
I understand. But all any expat coming to the USA can do is join the union and use their vote to elect reps who are dedicated to improving circumstances and vote against substandard contracts. [Those without a union can only vote with their feet] This is all an academic discussion because there won't be enough expats coming here to sway things one way or the other. I predict there won't be any invasion of EU pilots coming here. But if they do come, they might be the most fierce opponents of management exploitation because of their experience in the EU airline world. Maybe we need a few more of those ? :ok: |
Hey guys, I am also considering this option if it is true. However, I do have a few concerns. Firstly, I have 4000hrs as FO on A320 and an ICAO ATPL. If this info is true, would I have to start my career in the US with a regional and work my way up or do I have any chance with the lowcost or national carriers? And also do I need to convert my ATPL to FAA before I even consider going down this route?
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To add in what I know. I and a few friends have been looking into this EB2-NIW avenue and doing lots of research and homework on the topic. We have made contact with a few law firms and all seem to be on a similar page, or trying to jump onto the bandwagon here. Because the "pilots License" is now being considered a new addition, the answer to the question, How many successful Pilot cases has your firm had approved for NIW? Every firm had the same answer. None!
There are two ways of qualifying, the first one 99% of pilots won't qualify for and that is the Advanced Degree. An advanced degree means a master’s degree or its foreign equivalent or a baccalaureate or foreign equivalent degree plus 5 years of post-baccalaureate, progressive work experience in the field. The second is where "some pilots" MIGHT stand a chance based on how it is written and that is in Exceptional ability individual. An exceptional ability individual is an individual who does not possess an advanced degree and meet three of the following criteria:
Best of Luck to all. |
Thats the problem, I am not able to find any concrete information anywhere online or on the US Immigration/visa pages. Just a few law firms from youtube etc. I did forgot to mention that I do have a masters degree but it is in a non-aviation field and I do have work exp related to that field for 2 years. I dont know if that supports my case/eligibility critera
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Whether you’ll be able to bypass the “joy” of a regional gig, will simply be down to the state of the hiring environment and to a certain degree, luck. Having previous experience of the 121 world and US ops is always going to tick an extra box. For an Airline in the US, it’s one less area you’ll need training on and these days, time is money and no airline wants to spend more than they have to.
Flying a plane is flying a plane, the hardest part is the getting to the runway and then to the gate, after landing. It can, for some be like leaning another language and it can take you well outside the known and your comfort zone. For some, it’s much easier than it is for others. I’ve gone through training with former military guys and whilst outstanding aviators, the ground ops at a civilian US airport like ORD, has been a bit of a headf#ck for them. They’ve risen to the challenge superbly but it just took time to feel comfortable. I’m painting with a broad brush here but I think most would agree. if you’re lucky enough to be granted the right to live and work here, simply apply to everyone and see what happens. |
Originally Posted by Kenny
(Post 11121729)
Flying a plane is flying a plane, the hardest part is the getting to the runway and then to the gate, after landing. It can, for some be like leaning another language and it can take you well outside the known and your comfort zone. For some, it’s much easier than it is for others. I’ve gone through training with former military guys and whilst outstanding aviators, the ground ops at a civilian US airport like ORD, has been a bit of a headf#ck for them. They’ve risen to the challenge superbly but it just took time to feel comfortable. I’m painting with a broad brush here but I think most would agree.
It is crazy. It is wild. Certainly outside of the confort zone, and thought to myself, I can really do without this ... What's the story behind this eventual new development, if it happens to become reality ? The Regionals are getting that desperate that consideration is being given to this possibility ? Not enough Aussies available ? About the FAA ATP. There seems to be several "knowledge areas". ATP (FAR 121) (ATM), ATP (FAR 135) (ATS), ATP (FAR 135) (ARA), etc, etc. There are ATPs for specific activities ? Is not the case the ATP covers everything ? |
For airplane pilots, unless you are transitioning from a Canadian license, there are just two ATP knowledge tests. The ATS for the single engine rating and the ATM for the multi rating. The ATS focuses more on part 135 rules and operations while the ATM is focused on part 121 and transport jets.
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Thanks for that !!!
Probably you meant to write the ATS (instead of the ATM) focuses more on Part 135 rules. During the previous century (in the nineties) I obtained an FAA Aircraft Dispatcher (ADX) licence. Would that be of any help towards an ATP, or it's not the case ? In any case, it would be convenient to go through the whole updated database again, as it has been a while. |
Originally Posted by MarkerInbound
(Post 11122201)
For airplane pilots, unless you are transitioning from a Canadian license, there are just two ATP knowledge tests. The ATS for the single engine rating and the ATM for the multi rating. The ATM focuses more on part 135 rules and operations while the ATM is focused on part 121 and transport jets.
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Originally Posted by furioussphinx
(Post 11121597)
Thats the problem, I am not able to find any concrete information anywhere online or on the US Immigration/visa pages. Just a few law firms from youtube...
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Originally Posted by awair
(Post 11120435)
EB visas typically require a specific job offer (ie a sponsor),
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Originally Posted by zerograv
(Post 11122228)
Thanks for that !!!
Probably you meant to write the ATS (instead of the ATM) focuses more on Part 135 rules. During the previous century (in the nineties) I obtained an FAA Aircraft Dispatcher (ADX) licence. Would that be of any help towards an ATP, or it's not the case ? In any case, it would be convenient to go through the whole updated database again, as it has been a while. |
how does the tax system work in the U.S? Universal federal tax rate or do individual states have their own tax system?
If my employer is based in New York, and I am based in Greenboro Alabama, do I pay New York or Alabama tax? |
Originally Posted by IBE8720
(Post 11123187)
how does the tax system work in the U.S? Universal federal tax rate or do individual states have their own tax system?
If my employer is based in New York, and I am based in Greenboro Alabama, do I pay New York or Alabama tax? It’s been a while, so I forget the specifics but you should get the idea and remember…NEVER take financial or monetary advice from a pilot. |
Thanks for the advice. Any non pilot accountant onhere that would like to answer some questions... PM please.
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Originally Posted by IBE8720
(Post 11124722)
Thanks for the advice. Any non pilot accountant onhere that would like to answer some questions... PM please.
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Bf has just applied for I-140 NIW category as an airline pilot from Canada. We did not use any lawfirm, just did it on our own. It is not that complicated. He has a really good case, so we will see how it goes. We have really nothing to lose, except for 700$ US:(
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Originally Posted by Ana_stasiia
(Post 11126017)
Bf has just applied for I-140 NIW category as an airline pilot from Canada. We did not use any lawfirm, just did it on our own. It is not that complicated. He has a really good case, so we will see how it goes. We have really nothing to lose, except for 700$ US:(
Does the Bf have a master's degree in aviation? Cheers |
Originally Posted by Climb150
(Post 11126096)
Hey Ana,
Does the Bf have a master's degree in aviation? Cheers |
Good luck.
Keep us posted. |
https://geckoaviation.com/atlas-air-...t-information/
Looks like Atlas is now beginning to sponsor foreign pilots… |
Originally Posted by Sunrig
(Post 11131400)
https://geckoaviation.com/atlas-air-...t-information/
Looks like Atlas is now beginning to sponsor foreign pilots… It is said that management wants to take advantage of the situation in Hong Kong and poach out Cathay Crews, so there will be a preference set up already, Australians and British. Also, I read Atlas is a nightmare to work for… But let’s see what happens in 2022… |
Originally Posted by SuperSmart666
(Post 11131414)
It is said that management wants to take advantage of the situation in Hong Kong and poach out Cathay Crews, so there will be a preference set up already, Australians and British.
Also, I read Atlas is a nightmare to work for… But let’s see what happens in 2022… Out of the frying pan and into the fire for CX crew? At least CX crew wouldn't have to put up with the stupid COVID situation and rules in Asia no more. |
I'm interested too but can't find a solid answer anywhere.
Just few websites and videos so if anyone gets some information please share it with us. |
I contacted few lawyers. Some say it's not true, we can't have a green card as pilot, some say yes it's possible. So I don't know if it's true or not.
after for those who say yes the fees change from 11000$us to 17000$us without guarantees of success. I find it's a lot of money and even more when you convert that in Canadian. And you have to add around 5000$us for the conversion of the license. |
Originally Posted by Ana_stasiia
(Post 11126017)
Bf has just applied for I-140 NIW category as an airline pilot from Canada. We did not use any lawfirm, just did it on our own. It is not that complicated. He has a really good case, so we will see how it goes. We have really nothing to lose, except for 700$ US:(
also do you know the exact name of his degree. Because we don't have a bachelor degree in France. Thanks |
Guys, the only ones who succeeded are not the average pilots. They were TRIs/TREs, lecturers, management pilots, test pilots,...not basic captains. 15 years in the industry and more than 10000h. With a good lawyer and most of all with top notch references from high profile indutry experts. And they already had their FAA ATP to help the case. If you go for the visa first and the licence after, you don't understand how things work.
Going without a lawyer is in theory possible, but you don't stand a chance. Again, if you go without a good lawyer, you don't understand how things work in the US. The point of the EB2-NIW is to show that you have extraordinary skills and credentials. |
Originally Posted by Newcomer2
(Post 11134802)
Guys, the only ones who succeeded are not the average pilots. They were TRIs/TREs, lecturers, management pilots, test pilots,...not basic captains. 15 years in the industry and more than 10000h. With a good lawyer and most of all with top notch references from high profile indutry experts. And they already had their FAA ATP to help the case. If you go for the visa first and the licence after, you don't understand how things work.
Going without a lawyer is in theory possible, but you don't stand a chance. Again, if you go without a good lawyer, you don't understand how things work in the US. The point of the EB2-NIW is to show that you have extraordinary skills and credentials. It's seems you know somethings that we don't. Are you working for immigration or for a lawyer? |
Originally Posted by Newcomer2
(Post 11134802)
Guys, the only ones who succeeded are not the average pilots. They were TRIs/TREs, lecturers, management pilots, test pilots,...not basic captains. 15 years in the industry and more than 10000h. With a good lawyer and most of all with top notch references from high profile indutry experts. And they already had their FAA ATP to help the case. If you go for the visa first and the licence after, you don't understand how things work.
Going without a lawyer is in theory possible, but you don't stand a chance. Again, if you go without a good lawyer, you don't understand how things work in the US. The point of the EB2-NIW is to show that you have extraordinary skills and credentials. |
Isn’t this visa originally addressed
at people working in science/research etc…? Thats why it is asking for advanced degree, peer review, outstanding achievements and so on. None of these is usually part of a pilot’s career. Many of us have degrees, but not aviation related. Even an MBA in aviation management has almost nothing to do with piloting. TRI/TRE/Management pilots are also nothing extraordinary in this matter, unless they pulled a Sully or similar. Not many higher rank captains are going to give up their seniority and home to start over as an FO at a regional. If they really want this to happen, they should give pilot specific requirements, which are aimed at younger A320 FOs who are -in my opinion- the most suitable to start a new life there. |
how many joining atlas like this ? Many Australian coming ? Mood of the local may not be good
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