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FAA license transfer- Is it possible to do TR/CPL as one?

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FAA license transfer- Is it possible to do TR/CPL as one?

Old 10th Nov 2020, 13:02
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Canada
Age: 34
Posts: 632
FAA license transfer- Is it possible to do TR/CPL as one?

Hello all,

I've posted this over in the pilots training forum as well. Not sure if it's the right place to get an answer as it seems to be more European pilots than American.
Mod's, feel free to delete whichever of the two that is in the wrong place!

A slight variation to the typical "how to" licence transfer question. And it's a 2 part question. As I don't currently have an ATPL (Thanks Greek HCAA 🙄🙄🙄🙄 ), it means I will have to convert a CPL to FAA CPL.
After completing the initial transfer that gives me a FAA PPL, I will then conduct the required flight training for the CPL.

Crawling through Part 61, it looks like I will need 20hrs flight training. Is it possible to do the required flight time as part of the type rating? (excluding the 5hrs in a SE as I have pointed out in the following text)

Part 61 states:
3) 20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in §61.127(b)(1) of this part that includes at least—(i) Ten hours of instrument training using a view-limiting device including attitude instrument flying, partial panel skills, recovery from unusual flight attitudes, and intercepting and tracking navigational systems. ****Five hours of the 10 hours required on instrument training must be in a single engine airplane;****

(ii) 10 hours of training in a complex airplane, a turbine-powered airplane, or a technically advanced airplane (TAA) that meets the requirements of paragraph (j) of this section, or any combination thereof. The airplane must be appropriate to land or sea for the rating sought;

To me, all of these manoeuvres are carried out during the type rating, and, would cover the flight time requirements.

Part 2 of the question.Can the CPL and TR flight test be carried out at the same time?

Trying to save a bit of time as well as a few dollars.

Thanks in advance!
lilflyboy262...2 is offline  
Old 10th Nov 2020, 17:30
  #2 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Augusta, Georgia, USA (back from Germany again)
Posts: 200
You are missing a very important piece of information. The FAR 61.129 section you quoted is on the test for a commercial pilot certificate, it's the minimum aeronautical experience required to get one.

Look for the FAA's Airman Certification Standards for Commercial Pilot. You will see what is required on the checkride. If you were to do chandelles, eights on pylons, steep spirals, power of 180s, and so on in the airplane you were using for the type rating then you could likely combine the two. So, from a practical perspective, the answer is 'no.'

Experience gained in foreign aircraft with foreign instructors "counts" in the FAA's world. Here's what I see you need:

1. An FAA private pilot certificate (certificate, not license) under FAR 61.75 based on your EASA license.
A current EASA or FAA medical.
A flight review under FAR 61.56 - now you can fly solo/PIC

2. If you are EASA instrument rated, you can use the above to get IFR privileges with the 61.75 certificate, but this is not good enough for an FAA commercial certificate. So:
Take the FAA written test for the instrument rating
Train for and pass the FAA instrument checkride

3. The 61.75 private certificate can be used for advanced certificates
Take the FAA written test for commercial pilot
Train for and pass the FAA commercial pilot checkride
This is now independent of your EASA license and requires an FAA medical

4. Before taking the Multi Engine ATP written you must complete the ATP CTP course.
How much total time do you have? What do you want to do the type rating in?
The ATP CTP course includes 10 hours in 737 or Airbus simulators. If you plan carefully, this can be coordinated with type rating training.
Assuming 1,500 hours, you could take the ATP CTP course, take the written, then do the type rating in the same model as the ATP CTP training.

5. Type rating checkrides are to ATP standards. If you have the written passed and 1,500 hours, you can get the ATP and the type rating in the same checkride.

Assuming you have at least 10 hours of complex training, everything can be done in a Cessna 172 or similar. (Except the type rating and ATP). You can get a SE commercial or ME commercial certificate. Are you multi-engine rated in EASA land?

If you work with an instructor with a plan from the beginning, you can do all of this in relatively little time. There is room to combine things in the Flight Review, the IFR training, and commercial training.

The FAA commercial requires 250 hours total time, 50 hours cross country (greater than 50NM apart) - including a flight to an airport at least 250nm away,

Hmm. A thought as a proofread the above.

If you do ME commercial as the initial FAA commercial certificate, the maneuvers I mentioned above are not required. ME commercial has its own requirements. Are you a current ME pilot? If you are instrument and ME proficient you could probably do both checkrides in the same day.

Take a look at 61.159 to see what the ATP requirements are. They have to be met too.

Good luck! PM me your experience and I can give you some thoughts. Look at 61.159 first.
LTCTerry is offline  
Old 10th Nov 2020, 20:35
  #3 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,853
Are you going for a SE commercial or ME? The 5 hours SE instrument time you reference is in 61.129(a) which lists the experience requirements for a SE rating. 61.129(b) lists the requirements for a ME rating which include 5 hours instrument training in a ME airplane. The other 5 hours could be in an airship as far the FAA is concerned.
If you have the time you can go straight to the ATP as the holder of an ICAO commercial license. The ATP CTP course has its own syllabus for the simulator training. While some of the maneuvers overlap the checkride maneuvers, most of the training is different from what is required for the checkride. You could contact the training center and see how much they can count.
Even if you’re not going for an ATP level type you could complete the CTP as it does not expire. Just be sure to keep the course completion certificate as a record for when you do get ready for the ATP MEL checkride. And if you do a type ride as your commercial checkride the type will upgrade to an ATP type when you get your ATP MEL since the checkride is conducted to ATP no matter what level of certificate you are applying for.
MarkerInbound is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2020, 06:46
  #4 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NA
Posts: 108
I was looking at this last year (to avoid ATP-CTP cost).

The problem is that the T/R is typically completed at a 142 school. These can only offer specific approved courses. I was advised that they could conduct a PP with Type Rating, or an ATP, but not Commercial. The check-ride itself is to ATP standards anyway.

There may be schools that could do this, might be best to check with the FAA for what approvals are granted?

Otherwise, as stated above, ICAO commercial can go straight to ATP. It will cost more, but the simplicity and reliability of the route (for an experienced pilot) to train on current type for ATP-CTP then ATP with Type Rating is definitely recommended.
awair is offline  

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