Allegiant fires pilot after ordering an emergency evacuation
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Potomac Heights
Posts: 470
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Allegiant fires pilot after ordering an emergency evacuation
It was June 8. With the smell of acrid smoke filling his cabin, he’d just made an emergency landing at Florida's St. Pete-Clearwater International Airport, where ground fire crews had informed him that his No. 1 engine was smoking. Despite cutting power to the engine, the smell hadn’t dissipated, Kinzer said, and he was worried about his 141 passengers...
He knew an emergency evacuation could be risky. But a smoky plane can be risky, too.
“This is a tough corner to be backed in because you have very little information and you may have a very small amount of time to get it right. ... How long do you wait?” Kinzer said in an exclusive interview with ABC News’ David Kerley. “I felt the best decision was to get them to safety and get them away from an airplane that was smoking.”
So he popped the emergency slides and ordered an evac.
Six weeks later, he was fired...
In a lawsuit filed Thursday, Kinzer’s lawyer claims Allegiant ousted Kinzer “maliciously” because he hadn’t prioritized company assets and negative media exposure above passenger wellbeing...
According to the lawsuit, Allegiant may have disregarded a Federal Aviation Administration regulation that places the responsibility for emergency decision-making with the pilot...
Full story here: https://gma.yahoo.com/ex-pilot-sues-...pstories.html#
He knew an emergency evacuation could be risky. But a smoky plane can be risky, too.
“This is a tough corner to be backed in because you have very little information and you may have a very small amount of time to get it right. ... How long do you wait?” Kinzer said in an exclusive interview with ABC News’ David Kerley. “I felt the best decision was to get them to safety and get them away from an airplane that was smoking.”
So he popped the emergency slides and ordered an evac.
Six weeks later, he was fired...
In a lawsuit filed Thursday, Kinzer’s lawyer claims Allegiant ousted Kinzer “maliciously” because he hadn’t prioritized company assets and negative media exposure above passenger wellbeing...
According to the lawsuit, Allegiant may have disregarded a Federal Aviation Administration regulation that places the responsibility for emergency decision-making with the pilot...
Full story here: https://gma.yahoo.com/ex-pilot-sues-...pstories.html#
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,257
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
An unidentified voice on his radio had advised him to hold off on evacuating the plane, then ceased transmission. But without knowing the source of the directive or what was going on with the jet, Kinzer was wary.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
A few weeks later the guy that fired him made a little news himself:
Pilot Low on Gas Declares Fuel Emergency After Runway Closure - ABC News
Pilot Low on Gas Declares Fuel Emergency After Runway Closure - ABC News
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
For all of you PPRuNe sea lawyers here is a link to the lawsuit as filed:
https://consumermediallc.files.wordp...-complaint.pdf
https://consumermediallc.files.wordp...-complaint.pdf
A few weeks later the guy that fired him made a little news himself:
Pilot Low on Gas Declares Fuel Emergency After Runway Closure - ABC News
Pilot Low on Gas Declares Fuel Emergency After Runway Closure - ABC News
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,257
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks Airbubba.
Here's an excerpt from the radio transcription detailed in Exhibit 1. The "Unknown" voice seems to be RF2 but not identified as such.
(no other related conversation until the transcription end).
Here's an excerpt from the radio transcription detailed in Exhibit 1. The "Unknown" voice seems to be RF2 but not identified as such.
2042:03 864 Yes right here we're going to be evacuating
2042:05 RF 864 roger
2042:07 Unknown 864 hold off on your evacuation please
2042:13 864 Who said to hold off
2042:15 Unknown Yes please hold off on your evacuation
2042:16 864 Yes who is this
2042:22 GC Be advised when you guys are making transmissions identify yourself first so everybody knows who's talking to who
2042:29 864 Yeah Allegiant 864 who's telling us not to evacuate
2042:34 Unknown Airport Command RF 2 I'm telling you not to evacuate yet
2042:37 864 All right
2043:01 864 Allegiant 864 why do you want us to hold
2043:17 864 We need answer please why do you want us to hold on the evacuation
2043:27 GC RF 2 Command safety ground did you copy Allegiant's transmission
2043:36 GC Ops 1 are you on St. Pete ground
2043:44 GC Okay are there any emergency vehicles any of the RF vehicles on ground frequency
2043:51 RF3 Affirmative RF 3 on
2043:53 GC Okay RF 3 on Allegiant 864 is requesting why do you want them to hold on the evacuation they need an answer please
2044:04 RF RF 3 give me one second I'll contact the man on the ground
2042:05 RF 864 roger
2042:07 Unknown 864 hold off on your evacuation please
2042:13 864 Who said to hold off
2042:15 Unknown Yes please hold off on your evacuation
2042:16 864 Yes who is this
2042:22 GC Be advised when you guys are making transmissions identify yourself first so everybody knows who's talking to who
2042:29 864 Yeah Allegiant 864 who's telling us not to evacuate
2042:34 Unknown Airport Command RF 2 I'm telling you not to evacuate yet
2042:37 864 All right
2043:01 864 Allegiant 864 why do you want us to hold
2043:17 864 We need answer please why do you want us to hold on the evacuation
2043:27 GC RF 2 Command safety ground did you copy Allegiant's transmission
2043:36 GC Ops 1 are you on St. Pete ground
2043:44 GC Okay are there any emergency vehicles any of the RF vehicles on ground frequency
2043:51 RF3 Affirmative RF 3 on
2043:53 GC Okay RF 3 on Allegiant 864 is requesting why do you want them to hold on the evacuation they need an answer please
2044:04 RF RF 3 give me one second I'll contact the man on the ground
From the dismissal letter:
'You ordered an evacuation that was entirely
unwarranted and, as a result, your conduct and decision-making on June 8,compromised the safety of
your crew and your passengers and led directly to the injuries.'
I didn't see a reference to any injuries in the rest of the document.
'You ordered an evacuation that was entirely
unwarranted and, as a result, your conduct and decision-making on June 8,compromised the safety of
your crew and your passengers and led directly to the injuries.'
I didn't see a reference to any injuries in the rest of the document.
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,257
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@susier
Allegiant plane leaving St. Pete-Clearwater makes emergency landing | WFLA.com
Four passengers and one flight attendant sustained injuries. News Channel 8 saw two passengers hauled out on stretchers and placed into ambulances
The link in post #3 includes an ATC recording. Doesn't sound fake to me.
He's been fired by either the Chief Pilot, the DO or the Head of HR.
So how do we know the guy telling him to hold off on evac is the same guy low on fuel?
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 1,546
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I hope Captain Kinzer wins his lawsuit, and I wonder why when he claims defamation and loss of employment prospects, he is only asking for $10,000!
This seems far too little for the damage to his career.
According to the writeup from News Channel 8 the same day, the passengers were upset by "screaming flight attendants" and having to clamber out on the wings by themselves. The media intends to provoke shock and horror at the very behavior flight attendants are TRAINED to provide - in event of an evacuation with smoke in the cabin, commands are given at the top of your voice, not in a whisper or as a gentle suggestion. (and forget about taking out your carry on baggage, right?!)
I've flown out of St.Pete Clearwater quite a few times (in a beatup 172). This airline Allegiant carrying 141 pax from St. Pete to Hagerstown Maryland is probably running on fumes anyway! borne out by the second incident appearing in the media. Never thought I would be cheering for the lawyers, but in this case, the sooner this flaky operation is shut down the better.
This seems far too little for the damage to his career.
According to the writeup from News Channel 8 the same day, the passengers were upset by "screaming flight attendants" and having to clamber out on the wings by themselves. The media intends to provoke shock and horror at the very behavior flight attendants are TRAINED to provide - in event of an evacuation with smoke in the cabin, commands are given at the top of your voice, not in a whisper or as a gentle suggestion. (and forget about taking out your carry on baggage, right?!)
I've flown out of St.Pete Clearwater quite a few times (in a beatup 172). This airline Allegiant carrying 141 pax from St. Pete to Hagerstown Maryland is probably running on fumes anyway! borne out by the second incident appearing in the media. Never thought I would be cheering for the lawyers, but in this case, the sooner this flaky operation is shut down the better.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
A few weeks later the guy that fired him made a little news himself:
Pilot Low on Gas Declares Fuel Emergency After Runway Closure - ABC News
Pilot Low on Gas Declares Fuel Emergency After Runway Closure - ABC News
And how do we know this to be true?
Two Allegiant Air executives, the vice president of operations and the director of flight safety, were at the controls of the flight that made an emergency landing last week because it was nearly out of fuel.
Greg Baden, Allegiant's vice president of operations, and Michael Wuerger, director of flight safety, government affairs and quality assurance, were flying Allegiant's Flight 426 from McCarran International Airport to the Fargo, N.D., Hector International Airport on July 23.
A representative of Allegiant confirmed that Baden and Wuerger were flying the plane, adding it is not uncommon for members of operations management to take flights to maintain their pilot status.
Greg Baden, Allegiant's vice president of operations, and Michael Wuerger, director of flight safety, government affairs and quality assurance, were flying Allegiant's Flight 426 from McCarran International Airport to the Fargo, N.D., Hector International Airport on July 23.
A representative of Allegiant confirmed that Baden and Wuerger were flying the plane, adding it is not uncommon for members of operations management to take flights to maintain their pilot status.
But, the good news is that V-P of Ops Captain Baden was found to have 'exercised sound judgment' after he investigated his own incident
:
An in-house investigation of the emergency landing of Allegiant Air Flight 426 in Fargo, N.D., last week has found that the flight crew operated within the bounds of all regulations and "our captain exercised sound judgment in the operation of his aircraft," the airline said Thursday.
The Allegiant line pilots are members of a union with strong historical ties to organized crime (as in the Mafia). The current president is the first in many years not to be indicted on federal felony charges. Most of the union's leaders in the past six decades have gone to prison. Jackie Presser beat the rap by dying of a heart attack in 1988 and Ron Carey was acquitted in 2001 but I believe every other recent past president has done hard time in federal prison. Yo' Vinnie, youse got a problem wit dat?
Last edited by Airbubba; 14th Nov 2015 at 00:11.
Trash du Blanc
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: KBHM
Posts: 1,185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But, the good news is that V-P of Ops Captain Baden was found to have 'exercised sound judgment' after he investigated his own incident
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: North of the beaches
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, it says "in excess of $10,000" and you can bet they will be asking for commensurate damages. That is just boilerplate language to establish that this is not a "small claims" lawsuit and is within the jurisdiction of the relevant civil court.
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: North Korea
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The wording of the termination letter addressed to Cpt Kinder seems very thin to me. I wish Kinzer to win this court case!
Recently, British Airways showed us how quickly an airliner can burn down. This MD80 did not end up burning, but one cannot foresee that as a pilot at that moment.
Anybody know if and when this MD80 was released to service again, and what the cause of the smoke was?
Recently, British Airways showed us how quickly an airliner can burn down. This MD80 did not end up burning, but one cannot foresee that as a pilot at that moment.
Anybody know if and when this MD80 was released to service again, and what the cause of the smoke was?
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Surrounded by aluminum, and the great outdoors
Posts: 3,780
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
this mob is another ValuJet just waiting to happen...the low fuel story with the management pilots flying is very interesting reading...
I was not likely to fly Allegiant before, and certainly not now.
Can't think of any worse safety practice than second-guessing a PIC and attempting to deprive him of his livelihood because he make a call fully within his authority and to the benefit of his passengers and crew.
TWB
Can't think of any worse safety practice than second-guessing a PIC and attempting to deprive him of his livelihood because he make a call fully within his authority and to the benefit of his passengers and crew.
TWB