AA Crash Jamaica
Join Date: May 2008
Location: DR
Age: 44
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hey guys...... Here are the two metars closest to the time of touchdown.......
MKJP 230228Z 31009KT 5000 TSRA BKN014 FEW016CB SCT030 BKN100 22/19 Q1013
MKJP 230200Z 30012KT 5000 SHRA BKN014 SCT030 BKN100 22/20 Q1013 RERA
Obviously winds where ideal for a RWY30 approach. My guess is they used RWY12 to use the ILS @ KIN.
I have personally seen this same aircraft land on my home airport's ILS with a 6kt tailwind and similar conditions. our runway is 8,595'.
Glad everybody survived..... kudos to the AA flight crew ,Ops and ARFF crews @ Manley....
Regards
RaInZ
MKJP 230228Z 31009KT 5000 TSRA BKN014 FEW016CB SCT030 BKN100 22/19 Q1013
MKJP 230200Z 30012KT 5000 SHRA BKN014 SCT030 BKN100 22/20 Q1013 RERA
Obviously winds where ideal for a RWY30 approach. My guess is they used RWY12 to use the ILS @ KIN.
I have personally seen this same aircraft land on my home airport's ILS with a 6kt tailwind and similar conditions. our runway is 8,595'.
Glad everybody survived..... kudos to the AA flight crew ,Ops and ARFF crews @ Manley....
Regards
RaInZ
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Euroville
Posts: 455
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have personally seen this same aircraft land on my home airport's ILS
with a 6kt tailwind and similar conditions. our runway is 8,595'.
with a 6kt tailwind and similar conditions. our runway is 8,595'.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: DR
Age: 44
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Telstar i agree with you and nobody is getting sidetracked........... it was a simple point i made to show that they used 12 surely because of the ILS... or you think it was for another reason?
regards
RaInZ
regards
RaInZ
Last edited by RaInZ; 23rd Dec 2009 at 11:24. Reason: typo
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North America
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Engines were Removed"
The choice of words of the AA spokesman, as cited in the WSJ, certainly minimizes the violence of the crash (hopefully without fatality):
"Fort Worth-based American spokesman Tim Smith said Wednesday that 'both engines were removed or taken off the wing as it happened,' as designed to do for safety reasons."
"Fort Worth-based American spokesman Tim Smith said Wednesday that 'both engines were removed or taken off the wing as it happened,' as designed to do for safety reasons."
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 451
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well....
Well, anytime you're landing on a wet runway with a tailwind, you're asking for trouble.
Not so bad:
1. Light weight and,
2. Long runway and,
3. Touchdown at proper speed and,
4. Touchdown at proper point on runway and,
5. Immediate and full braking efforts and,
6. Runway not contaminated.
Very bad:
1. One or more of the above not satisfied.....
Fly safe,
PantLoad
Not so bad:
1. Light weight and,
2. Long runway and,
3. Touchdown at proper speed and,
4. Touchdown at proper point on runway and,
5. Immediate and full braking efforts and,
6. Runway not contaminated.
Very bad:
1. One or more of the above not satisfied.....
Fly safe,
PantLoad
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Middle East
Posts: 413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Passengers injured as American Airlines plane misses runway in Jamaica - Times Online
Better pic on the Times website. Port wingtip snapped off, fuselage rutured aft of the wing and the detached starboard engine visible in the background. A mess. There are some injured pax but no lives lost. 5th hull loss of a 737 NG.
Better pic on the Times website. Port wingtip snapped off, fuselage rutured aft of the wing and the detached starboard engine visible in the background. A mess. There are some injured pax but no lives lost. 5th hull loss of a 737 NG.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That's a good photo. Confirms the aircraft's location as being on the grass verge between the Norman Manly highway and the beach (lets hope they don't find a car under there). This makes is approx 80m past the numbers.
Also looks like the aircraft has completed a 180 - presumably before coming off the 2-3m drop at the end of the runway, judging by the fact the tail is still co-located with the rest of the fuselage.
Starting to look like a lucky escape indeed.
Also looks like the aircraft has completed a 180 - presumably before coming off the 2-3m drop at the end of the runway, judging by the fact the tail is still co-located with the rest of the fuselage.
Starting to look like a lucky escape indeed.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: TRINIDAD
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I live and fly privately in Kingston. Norman Manley International is built pretty much on reclaimed land across Kingston Harbour just south of the city. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Manley_International_Airport
There is a link on this page to the Google Earth map of the airport.
The day of the crash was extremely wet in Jamaica with widespread flooding. As seen from the METAR report flight AA331 landed with a tailwind on a wet runway. Aquaplaning and a tailwind landing were possible contributory causes of the run off. The passengers and crew were very lucky that the airplane stopped where it did as 5m more and they would have been in the sea. Interested to see from the news footage that the door slides did not seem to deploy.
There is a link on this page to the Google Earth map of the airport.
The day of the crash was extremely wet in Jamaica with widespread flooding. As seen from the METAR report flight AA331 landed with a tailwind on a wet runway. Aquaplaning and a tailwind landing were possible contributory causes of the run off. The passengers and crew were very lucky that the airplane stopped where it did as 5m more and they would have been in the sea. Interested to see from the news footage that the door slides did not seem to deploy.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Florida
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AP video of damage to be seen here...Jamaica plane crash: American Airlines flight AA331 to Miami overshoots runway (photo, video)
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Euroville
Posts: 455
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, anytime you're landing on a wet runway with a tailwind, you're asking for trouble.
No it ain't bubba. That's what we have performance charts and tables for. I've landed with 15kts tailwind on snow and the -800 is a good performer. That kind of mentality is light aircraft mentality. Fuel in the bowser, runway behind you, only taking off into wind and full power takeoffs don't apply to Performance A aircraft. They land and takeoff with tailwinds, depart from intersections and don't fill up the tanks on every flight.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In a far better place
Posts: 2,480
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, anytime you're landing on a wet runway with a tailwind, you're asking for trouble.
A pilot (be them a simulator/microsoft operator or newbie) is asking for trouble if they continue into conditions beyond their capabilities. That's why crews have the option to hold outside the airport area until conditions improve, provided their egos don't get in the way.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: alameda
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't think that one should rule out tailwinds as part of the equation. I am surprised that anyone would comment about jet vs. light plane mentality... If the plane landed in accordance with known conditions and approved methods/wind speed that is ok...but if the pilots received faulty information as to the exact speed and direction of the wind, this could be an area of concern.
I would hope someone would post the gradient of the runway in question as well (slope).
I would hope P51 guy can look up the max tail wind component that American uses and verify the runway used.
The plane did break in half according to new pictures. Aft of the wing.
Lucky there was NO fire.
I wonder where the initial touchdown was along the runway? One report says the landing was very hard followed by a ''bounce'', according to passengers.
There are many factors in any landing to consider. Speed, correct selection of speed vs weight. Flap setting (hope someone can see it in the pictures), use of spoilers, thrust reverser use, auto brakes or manual brakes.
If the landing was ''firm'' that might be considered a good thing...but one must ask who was flying and their experience on the plane.
Please recall the midway/southwest over run...18 seconds elapsed between touchdown and deployment of thrust reversers. There was a kiss of a tailwaind there too.
I would hope someone would post the gradient of the runway in question as well (slope).
I would hope P51 guy can look up the max tail wind component that American uses and verify the runway used.
The plane did break in half according to new pictures. Aft of the wing.
Lucky there was NO fire.
I wonder where the initial touchdown was along the runway? One report says the landing was very hard followed by a ''bounce'', according to passengers.
There are many factors in any landing to consider. Speed, correct selection of speed vs weight. Flap setting (hope someone can see it in the pictures), use of spoilers, thrust reverser use, auto brakes or manual brakes.
If the landing was ''firm'' that might be considered a good thing...but one must ask who was flying and their experience on the plane.
Please recall the midway/southwest over run...18 seconds elapsed between touchdown and deployment of thrust reversers. There was a kiss of a tailwaind there too.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Euroville
Posts: 455
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I will NEVER do a intersection TO.....
does that make me a light plane hysterical pilot?
WHY TAKE THE RISK?
does that make me a light plane hysterical pilot?
WHY TAKE THE RISK?
Back to the thread.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In a far better place
Posts: 2,480
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Please recall the midway/southwest over run...18 seconds elapsed between touchdown and deployment of thrust reversers. There was a kiss of a tailwaind there too.
I wonder where the initial touchdown was along the runway? One report says the landing was very hard followed by a ''bounce'', according to passengers.
There are many factors in any landing to consider. Speed, correct selection of speed vs weight. Flap setting (hope someone can see it in the pictures), use of spoilers, thrust reverser use, auto brakes or manual brakes.
If the landing was ''firm'' that might be considered a good thing...but one must ask who was flying and their experience on the plane.
There are many factors in any landing to consider. Speed, correct selection of speed vs weight. Flap setting (hope someone can see it in the pictures), use of spoilers, thrust reverser use, auto brakes or manual brakes.
If the landing was ''firm'' that might be considered a good thing...but one must ask who was flying and their experience on the plane.