What is happening with the Twin Market?
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Farnham, Surrey, England
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What is happening with the Twin Market?
I would like to get a feel for the market in the US for twin engined piston aircraft, particularly things like Aerostars and Barons. I can see the prices asked in Trade a plane and Controller.com, but are many sales taking place? Are the asking prices being acheived or is the market flat and looking to get worse due to fuel prices? - Discuss
Look forward to the replies
Flt
Look forward to the replies
Flt
Join Date: Jul 2006
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I believe it is flat and getting worse. The fuel prices here are creeping up quickly now and it is really starting to affect the residual values.
Good late model stuff still sells but there are bargains to be had at this time.
Good late model stuff still sells but there are bargains to be had at this time.
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If anyone has examples of asking prices vs prices sold for, that would be great. I am buying sometime soon and trying to decide how much below asking price to offer.
Flt...
Flt...
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The market is flat and will continue to head downward. Barons and 310s are trading at roughly 1994 prices, while stuff like Apaches and Aztecs can be had for $30K or less. Buyer's market for sure.
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Twins are excessive in terms of their burdenous maintenance. Granted in days gone by a twin allowed a greater all up weight and performance and therefore had a segment of the aviation landscape. However with newer and more innovative technologies being introduced into newer models many singles are growling at the heels of the twins. Why would you want a 60s aircraft that costs alot of buy, feed and keep (heck sounds more expensive than my wife 
)
Just a thought .....
)Just a thought .....
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Fltcom wanted advice on selling prices (not whether to rent or not...) so here is a recent sale I know about.
1980 414A, 'round about 4000 hours airframe, mid-life RAM engines, nice avionics (including a Garmin 530), radar, nice leather interior, very good exterior paint, in a quite pleasing but conservative design..
Asking price, $165,000
Sold for $145,000
I suspect that most buyers were looking at the repair in the logs regarding damage by a windstorm three years previous, however I personally watched the repair progress, and it was done superbly.
Someone got a bargin.
Lots of piston twins on the market now, some good, some not so good.
Sellers many times have an unrealistic expectation of what their airplane is worth, when in actual fact it is worth only what someone else is willing to pay.
) so here is a recent sale I know about.1980 414A, 'round about 4000 hours airframe, mid-life RAM engines, nice avionics (including a Garmin 530), radar, nice leather interior, very good exterior paint, in a quite pleasing but conservative design..
Asking price, $165,000
Sold for $145,000
I suspect that most buyers were looking at the repair in the logs regarding damage by a windstorm three years previous, however I personally watched the repair progress, and it was done superbly.
Someone got a bargin.
Lots of piston twins on the market now, some good, some not so good.
Sellers many times have an unrealistic expectation of what their airplane is worth, when in actual fact it is worth only what someone else is willing to pay.
Twin Prices
I have a single but have watched the twin market, mostly Barons, on and off for the last 4 years. Currently prices are low and demand is very weak.
I can't see the demand increasing. The pilot population is shrinking which is reducuing overall demand, fuel will only go up as will MX.
The buyers with money are going Cirrus, Diamond (single or twin) or Columbia before they head to Turboprops or maybe, big maybe, light jets.
If any one comes out with a new design six seat single with decent perfomance and de ice twins are going to feel it.
End of the day it is worth what someone will pay. The days of selling it for what you paid are long gone.
Good luck
20driver
PS - The hangar next to me purchased a brand new Baron. He got 15+% off list, training, extended warranty etc etc. Says something
I can't see the demand increasing. The pilot population is shrinking which is reducuing overall demand, fuel will only go up as will MX.
The buyers with money are going Cirrus, Diamond (single or twin) or Columbia before they head to Turboprops or maybe, big maybe, light jets.
If any one comes out with a new design six seat single with decent perfomance and de ice twins are going to feel it.
End of the day it is worth what someone will pay. The days of selling it for what you paid are long gone.
Good luck
20driver
PS - The hangar next to me purchased a brand new Baron. He got 15+% off list, training, extended warranty etc etc. Says something
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Light Piston Twin prices are coming down. Problem is alot of owners are not doing proper maintenance doing to the decreasing value of the plane. I have looked at a lot of twins latley and there are some real scary plane flying around. That being said good bargins can be had. The last Twin I bought was in April this year. Was looking for a run around airplane that could carry four full size males and golf clubs 500 nm. Ended up getting a 1956 C310. 5000TT 800SMOH on Both and 92 hours on new propellers ($18,700). Original panel, IFR, King DME, Transponder, with dual KX155's and Britain Auto pilot. Everything works. Why a 1956 C310?
Max Weight: 4600 lbs
Empty Weight: 2900 lbs
Max Fuel: 612 lbs 102 Gal
Useful load max fuel: 1088 lbs
Range: 750NM
Speed: 170KAS 65%
Fuel Burn: 21 GPH Total
VMC with VG's 75 MPH
Can takeoff and land in 2000 ft at max weight if needed.
Owner started off asking $49,500 last fall. Purchased for $33,000 in April.
Plane did need some work, most of it we knew about do to a pre purchase inspection. Paint 6, interior 7. What the plane needed. Some was necessary some was peice of mind issues.
Two Bad Cylinders $1400 Mandatory
New Exhaust Systems $4000 Probably could have repaired
But decided on new.
Vortex Generators $1200 Lowers VMC 20 MPH
New Brake discs $ 400 Discs near min, Clevland Brakes
New Brake Pads $ 120
All new Fuel and oil lines $ 900 Could not determine age
replaced
All new engine Nacelle Wiring $ 200 Wire was brittle
New engine Baffles $ 100
Some loose rivets in 3 spots $ 100
Total Cost for repairs $8420 Plus time.
Total cost under $45,000 including sales tax.
Of course if you can not do the work yourself it adds greatly to the cost.
Max Weight: 4600 lbs
Empty Weight: 2900 lbs
Max Fuel: 612 lbs 102 Gal
Useful load max fuel: 1088 lbs
Range: 750NM
Speed: 170KAS 65%
Fuel Burn: 21 GPH Total
VMC with VG's 75 MPH
Can takeoff and land in 2000 ft at max weight if needed.
Owner started off asking $49,500 last fall. Purchased for $33,000 in April.
Plane did need some work, most of it we knew about do to a pre purchase inspection. Paint 6, interior 7. What the plane needed. Some was necessary some was peice of mind issues.
Two Bad Cylinders $1400 Mandatory
New Exhaust Systems $4000 Probably could have repaired
But decided on new.
Vortex Generators $1200 Lowers VMC 20 MPH
New Brake discs $ 400 Discs near min, Clevland Brakes
New Brake Pads $ 120
All new Fuel and oil lines $ 900 Could not determine age
replaced
All new engine Nacelle Wiring $ 200 Wire was brittle
New engine Baffles $ 100
Some loose rivets in 3 spots $ 100
Total Cost for repairs $8420 Plus time.
Total cost under $45,000 including sales tax.
Of course if you can not do the work yourself it adds greatly to the cost.
