Job situation in USAl
Always liked your sence of humor.
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I don`t get it! Why should we "thank" the Italian lad for trying to come to the US to get an entry level turbo-prop job? $30-40K! In your dreams matey. Try $15-18K to start at a regional. If 76`s post was worth 2c then you should get a bill.
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Don't expect to see turbo props for much longer. Most regionals are flying RJs. Most turbo prop companys are either murging or being bought out. This week sees the last day of Allegheny Airlines. Shuttle America are in the process of being bought by Republic Airways (parent company of Chautauqua). Republic are also looking to buy Mid Atlantic (US Airways owned E170 operator).
Most entry level positions are with RJ operators. Look at around 1500 hours and expect around $20k to start. Ten days off sitting reserve for at least six months. Maybe make captain in 2-3 years.
So long as you are a legal resident most airlines will hire you. But you have to have a full FBI check every six or twelve months if you aren't a citizen.
Good luck.
Most entry level positions are with RJ operators. Look at around 1500 hours and expect around $20k to start. Ten days off sitting reserve for at least six months. Maybe make captain in 2-3 years.
So long as you are a legal resident most airlines will hire you. But you have to have a full FBI check every six or twelve months if you aren't a citizen.
Good luck.
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mjbow2
Hey not to throw salt into any soreness you may have toward avaition here in the US but how many pilots worldwide are still furloughed?
According to ALPA there are currently 5620 pilots still furloughed from US operators. This of course does not include non-union or carriers that went out of business after 9-1-1. Estimates run up near 15,000 total pilot jobs lost in just the US alone. How does that compare to what the rest of the world lost since 9-1-1? I am not saying that September11th was the catalyst for all the furloughs or defunct airlines, but it sure didn't help.
As for your comments on wages I'll just ask what the median income is in those countries you mentioned in your post? Also what is the cost of living in those countries?
I welcome our young Italian friend to our shores and hope he becomes a citizen raises a family and lives the American no the World wide dream here in the land of Milk & Honey.
And I believe what 767 was eluding to was pilots at certain US carriers both major and regional accepting precieved or real substadard wages and dragging down the pay in total for all US operators.
Thanks for the chance to voice my .02 cents, is that tax deductable?
Jobear
According to ALPA there are currently 5620 pilots still furloughed from US operators. This of course does not include non-union or carriers that went out of business after 9-1-1. Estimates run up near 15,000 total pilot jobs lost in just the US alone. How does that compare to what the rest of the world lost since 9-1-1? I am not saying that September11th was the catalyst for all the furloughs or defunct airlines, but it sure didn't help.
As for your comments on wages I'll just ask what the median income is in those countries you mentioned in your post? Also what is the cost of living in those countries?
I welcome our young Italian friend to our shores and hope he becomes a citizen raises a family and lives the American no the World wide dream here in the land of Milk & Honey.
And I believe what 767 was eluding to was pilots at certain US carriers both major and regional accepting precieved or real substadard wages and dragging down the pay in total for all US operators.
Thanks for the chance to voice my .02 cents, is that tax deductable?
Jobear
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I'm not Italian, but I'm unemployed, does that count?
Got two interviews this past week, had one scheduled with a regional for mid April and had a phone one on Friday with a 135 jet operator. Will hear on Monday whats the gen....
One flies nice equip,part 121, but pays crap, doesnt pay during training or accomodation.
THe other flies older jets,part 135, but pays better......decisions desicions
I thought I'd never even get an interview from anybody, so hang in there, I am.
Got two interviews this past week, had one scheduled with a regional for mid April and had a phone one on Friday with a 135 jet operator. Will hear on Monday whats the gen....
One flies nice equip,part 121, but pays crap, doesnt pay during training or accomodation.
THe other flies older jets,part 135, but pays better......decisions desicions
I thought I'd never even get an interview from anybody, so hang in there, I am.
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Skaz,
I assume you're South African. I'm thinking of going to an SA flight school (43) as the cost is about 1/2 that of a good one in the States.
I have a couple questions for you. What was involved in coverting your SA licences into FAA licences? Costs involved? Exams?
Check out Great Lakes Airlines in Denver- 750 TT mins with 50 multi.
Thanx.
cujo
I assume you're South African. I'm thinking of going to an SA flight school (43) as the cost is about 1/2 that of a good one in the States.
I have a couple questions for you. What was involved in coverting your SA licences into FAA licences? Costs involved? Exams?
Check out Great Lakes Airlines in Denver- 750 TT mins with 50 multi.
Thanx.
cujo
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The place you can go and still live in the USA. If you have the Quals.... Cathay Pacific..great pay, benifits, new equipment. Culture can be difficult at times but well worth it. After your 3rd year on the freighter, a transfer to the PAX fleet is in order..Then as an F/O, you will be making more money, more time off then most Commanders on a US based carrier, including the, "majors".
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cujo do you have FAA certificates?
if so, dont bother going.
There was a long thread on pprune on the issue of converting licenses etc, do a search, you will get a lotta info.
if you have ICAO (i.e. ZS license), be it CPL or ATP , the FAA will issue you a PPL based on that foreign license, with same ratings, meaning ASEL or AMEL etc, but not IFR.
Also , the PPL is only valid in conjunction with and for as long as foreign license is valid. With this PPL, you can test directly for your FAA ATP, but no aircraft ratings eg. B190 or C500 etc will be transferred to FAA certificate.
If you have FAA certificate, CPL or ATP, you can get a validation in South Africa only. This is valid for one year, or as long as FAA certificate is valid. But it limits you tremendously, you cannot add any rating to this validation. THus if you get a job in RSA with validation of FAA ATP, and you need to do type rating on eg B737, you cant. You have to go back to USA, do type there , add to your FAA certificate, go back to RSA, get new validation etc.....
I lost 4 type ratings going from RSA to USA: C208, F406, B190 and C500...its really hurting me now, cant afford to add them and FAA wont , losing out on jobs beacuse of it.
On a lighter note, I went to 43 Airshool, Its probably the best school in RSA, never mind what people will say. You live eat, breathe and sleep aviation while youre there. My instructor and one class mate are now flying for Cathay, another buddy in Dubai on jets, another on ATR another on B190 etc....good place, but ask for older instructor like Mike Orchard, hes great
" I lika Mika!"
or Mike Bundy if hes still there, or the chief instructor, Steve Goodrich, PM me if you want more info.
Stevie G will remember me....maybe thats not a good thing
oh yeah, you aked about exams, you will need to study and then write ATP (duh) then go and do flight test with FAA DE, I selfstudied with Gleim ATP course, and did a 4 day ATP test-prep course with AL ATP's www.allatps.com
very fast, steep learning curve, but worth it. also plenty bucks....
then come s the sitting around trying to get a job...been told 4 times in the last 10 days since I'm not American, not gonna get hired, one guy didnt even want to talk to me, told his secretary to tell me! BUt there is work out there....somewhere
if so, dont bother going.
There was a long thread on pprune on the issue of converting licenses etc, do a search, you will get a lotta info.
if you have ICAO (i.e. ZS license), be it CPL or ATP , the FAA will issue you a PPL based on that foreign license, with same ratings, meaning ASEL or AMEL etc, but not IFR.
Also , the PPL is only valid in conjunction with and for as long as foreign license is valid. With this PPL, you can test directly for your FAA ATP, but no aircraft ratings eg. B190 or C500 etc will be transferred to FAA certificate.
If you have FAA certificate, CPL or ATP, you can get a validation in South Africa only. This is valid for one year, or as long as FAA certificate is valid. But it limits you tremendously, you cannot add any rating to this validation. THus if you get a job in RSA with validation of FAA ATP, and you need to do type rating on eg B737, you cant. You have to go back to USA, do type there , add to your FAA certificate, go back to RSA, get new validation etc.....
I lost 4 type ratings going from RSA to USA: C208, F406, B190 and C500...its really hurting me now, cant afford to add them and FAA wont , losing out on jobs beacuse of it.
On a lighter note, I went to 43 Airshool, Its probably the best school in RSA, never mind what people will say. You live eat, breathe and sleep aviation while youre there. My instructor and one class mate are now flying for Cathay, another buddy in Dubai on jets, another on ATR another on B190 etc....good place, but ask for older instructor like Mike Orchard, hes great
" I lika Mika!"
or Mike Bundy if hes still there, or the chief instructor, Steve Goodrich, PM me if you want more info.
Stevie G will remember me....maybe thats not a good thing
oh yeah, you aked about exams, you will need to study and then write ATP (duh) then go and do flight test with FAA DE, I selfstudied with Gleim ATP course, and did a 4 day ATP test-prep course with AL ATP's www.allatps.com
very fast, steep learning curve, but worth it. also plenty bucks....
then come s the sitting around trying to get a job...been told 4 times in the last 10 days since I'm not American, not gonna get hired, one guy didnt even want to talk to me, told his secretary to tell me! BUt there is work out there....somewhere
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Hiya Skaz,
I have no FAA licences, in fact, I have no pilot licences right now. I'm just starting into the flying industry.
Maybe I'll just do a PPL in South Africa as ICAO PPL's seem to be easily and readily transferable in most countries and then do the rest in the US. I want to do some travelling as well.
Wow!! That's a lot of headaches just to convert licences. Frustrating.
Target a small prop operator like Great Lakes Airlines and if turned down unleesh a workplace discrimination lawyer or two on them. Might not get you the job but get the money to get those type ratings back. Gotta fight for your rights. 
Good luck. Cujomo
I have no FAA licences, in fact, I have no pilot licences right now. I'm just starting into the flying industry.
Maybe I'll just do a PPL in South Africa as ICAO PPL's seem to be easily and readily transferable in most countries and then do the rest in the US. I want to do some travelling as well.
Wow!! That's a lot of headaches just to convert licences. Frustrating.
Target a small prop operator like Great Lakes Airlines and if turned down unleesh a workplace discrimination lawyer or two on them. Might not get you the job but get the money to get those type ratings back. Gotta fight for your rights.
Good luck. Cujomo
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Just a bit more Skaz,
Since you have the right to legally live and work in the US(greencard), and that you are qualified for the job(ATP), it is HIGHLY illegal for ANY airline employer to deny you a job simply because you don't have US citizenship.
Now that you have a greencard you can be drafted into the US Army(Air Force wouldn't be a bad gig.) Think about that. 30% of the US troops in Iraq are not even citizens, they're greencard holders. Not allowed to fly in the States but you can be sent to war? Hmmmm. Something's wrong with that scenario.
Bring a tape recorder into your next interview, get him to say it on tape, and then nail him with a lawyer.
Hong Kong could be for you. Check out www.crairways.com or it could be www.crairlines.com Fly the CRJ around HKG.
Good luck
CM
Since you have the right to legally live and work in the US(greencard), and that you are qualified for the job(ATP), it is HIGHLY illegal for ANY airline employer to deny you a job simply because you don't have US citizenship.
Now that you have a greencard you can be drafted into the US Army(Air Force wouldn't be a bad gig.
) Think about that. 30% of the US troops in Iraq are not even citizens, they're greencard holders. Not allowed to fly in the States but you can be sent to war? Hmmmm. Something's wrong with that scenario. Bring a tape recorder into your next interview, get him to say it on tape, and then nail him with a lawyer.
Hong Kong could be for you. Check out www.crairways.com or it could be www.crairlines.com Fly the CRJ around HKG.
Good luck
CM
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Skaz....
you know as well as anyone you didnt 'loose' the F406 and C208, type ratings when you did the FAA lic. The FAA doesnt require a 'type rating' for these aircraft.
Unlike South Africa, an EMPLOYER will recognise your forign type ratings regardless if the FAA doesnt. All it will take if for your first check ride to be a 'type ride' and then you have the rating on the US lic....I fail to see how this is hurting you now? In SA they all seem to put the training costs onto the employees, this is not the same in the states.
Before you encourage cujo there to jeopodise the best opportunity he has of employment at Great Lakes, you might want to do your homework and find out how many 'greencard' holders are working there....you might be suprised...
MJB
you know as well as anyone you didnt 'loose' the F406 and C208, type ratings when you did the FAA lic. The FAA doesnt require a 'type rating' for these aircraft.
Unlike South Africa, an EMPLOYER will recognise your forign type ratings regardless if the FAA doesnt. All it will take if for your first check ride to be a 'type ride' and then you have the rating on the US lic....I fail to see how this is hurting you now? In SA they all seem to put the training costs onto the employees, this is not the same in the states.
Before you encourage cujo there to jeopodise the best opportunity he has of employment at Great Lakes, you might want to do your homework and find out how many 'greencard' holders are working there....you might be suprised...
MJB
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Cujomomba, "green card" holders may not become aircrew in the U.S. military, because aircrew need security clearances that non-citizens are ineligible for.
But you are correct, there are many non-citizens in our military, and their U.S. citizenship status is expedited because of their service.
But you are correct, there are many non-citizens in our military, and their U.S. citizenship status is expedited because of their service.
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Hey MjBow2, Speed-Dialing Johnnie Cochrane!! Oops...he's left no forwarding address to where he's been relocated. Hotter than tropical I imagine. Kidding. 
C6...I meant the airlines, not the air force. My wording wasn't very clear and the sentences were just thrown in together like a stew.
However...come to think of it, Presidents also require security clearances that non-US-born citizens are inelible for, but this could all change if Schwarzenegger is successful in having the constitution ammended to make way for his run for Prez/Commander-in-Chief. This is a very slippery slope and the problem this could present is where does it stop? If the CinC can be foreign born then the guys manning the B2 bombers and subs could not only be foreign born citizens but foreign born greencard holders. Interesting. Lawyers...leave em or love em. Kidding. Not looking for a wind-up or a debate. Just took it a bit further for interest's sake.
CM
Oops...he's left no forwarding address to where he's been relocated. Hotter than tropical I imagine. Kidding. C6...I meant the airlines, not the air force. My wording wasn't very clear and the sentences were just thrown in together like a stew.
However...come to think of it, Presidents also require security clearances that non-US-born citizens are inelible for, but this could all change if Schwarzenegger is successful in having the constitution ammended to make way for his run for Prez/Commander-in-Chief. This is a very slippery slope and the problem this could present is where does it stop? If the CinC can be foreign born then the guys manning the B2 bombers and subs could not only be foreign born citizens but foreign born greencard holders. Interesting. Lawyers...leave em or love em.
Kidding. Not looking for a wind-up or a debate. Just took it a bit further for interest's sake.CM
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cujomomba yes the ICAO (ZS) license is 'transferable' to FAA PPL, but if you want to use the FAA PPL, and the foreign license, to test for FAA ATP, then the foreign license needs to be either CPL or ATP. If you only have foreign PPL, then (I think) you only get FAA PPL and have to do CPL and then ATP when you have the hours and exams. All this is said as per my personal experience and under correction. Some details might be wrong, but in general, thats the gen.
As far as Greencard. I dont have one. It takes 25 months for Greencard application to be processed. I have workpermit and advance parole, allowing me to be employed and leave/re-enter the USA multiple times. There is a difference, but for all practical purposes its academic only. Trouble is, I have now been turned down from 5 companies because of this. Not citizen, not greencard holder, even though I am legally authorized to work and can function as any other aircrew member on international routes.
Yeah, dunno what to make of the situation thus far. I can join the National Guard, in fact have spoken to recruiter already. Can be sent off to get shot, maimed, paralyzed or killed leaving my wife a widow at 28, but I cant get a job? That doesnt seem right.
I applied to US Air Force, as check 6 said, you need to be citizen for pilot and also since I have served in a foreign military, they wont take me. Same with Air National Guard. Applied to Coast Guard for position as SAR pilot, but wont take me either. Can be a cook or mechanic...thats about it.
Or join NG as infantry and get blown to bits, but no, you cant get a job.
mjbow2 you fail to see how not having my type ratings transferred to my FAA certificate hurts my employment prospects? There have been numerous positions advertised in Airjobsdaily, planejobs, climbto350, avianation etc that require a B190 or C500series type rating. With hour requirements that I exceed two or three times.
Before you open your mouth next, engage your brain. At no time did I encourage cujomomba NOT TO TAKE UP AVIATION or NOT TO PURSUE A JOB AT GREAT LAKES. I said that if he has the FAA certificates, then dont bother. Its not worth the effort. IF however, he has nothing, like he said, then it might work out a lot cheaper for him to get the ICAO licenses first and convert them to FAA.
Your posts on this thread have been rather negative. How about you lighten up. We are all taking strain as expats.
If you are American, you have a huge advantage on all of us, period.
Also, as far as my knowledge goes about the type rastings at this time, turbine engined a/c do require them, regardless of MAUW. If I am wrong on this point, I shall bow to your superior knowledge.
As far as Greencard. I dont have one. It takes 25 months for Greencard application to be processed. I have workpermit and advance parole, allowing me to be employed and leave/re-enter the USA multiple times. There is a difference, but for all practical purposes its academic only. Trouble is, I have now been turned down from 5 companies because of this. Not citizen, not greencard holder, even though I am legally authorized to work and can function as any other aircrew member on international routes.
Yeah, dunno what to make of the situation thus far. I can join the National Guard, in fact have spoken to recruiter already. Can be sent off to get shot, maimed, paralyzed or killed leaving my wife a widow at 28, but I cant get a job? That doesnt seem right.
I applied to US Air Force, as check 6 said, you need to be citizen for pilot and also since I have served in a foreign military, they wont take me. Same with Air National Guard. Applied to Coast Guard for position as SAR pilot, but wont take me either. Can be a cook or mechanic...thats about it.
Or join NG as infantry and get blown to bits, but no, you cant get a job.
mjbow2 you fail to see how not having my type ratings transferred to my FAA certificate hurts my employment prospects? There have been numerous positions advertised in Airjobsdaily, planejobs, climbto350, avianation etc that require a B190 or C500series type rating. With hour requirements that I exceed two or three times.
Before you open your mouth next, engage your brain. At no time did I encourage cujomomba NOT TO TAKE UP AVIATION or NOT TO PURSUE A JOB AT GREAT LAKES. I said that if he has the FAA certificates, then dont bother. Its not worth the effort. IF however, he has nothing, like he said, then it might work out a lot cheaper for him to get the ICAO licenses first and convert them to FAA.
Your posts on this thread have been rather negative. How about you lighten up. We are all taking strain as expats.
If you are American, you have a huge advantage on all of us, period.
Also, as far as my knowledge goes about the type rastings at this time, turbine engined a/c do require them, regardless of MAUW. If I am wrong on this point, I shall bow to your superior knowledge.
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Skas and Kujo,
I apologise. It was Kujo who made the lawyer comments etc, not you Skaz.
Yes I have been a bit negative. I apologise.
I am not an American, and I was at one time in the same boat as you Skaz....although before 9/11.
It doesnt sound as though you have actually flown over there yet Skaz as just about any employer, including the likes of Ameriflight, American Check transport etc, would simply not care if you have the type on your licence. Your initial training/check ride that all part 135/121 carriers are required to do is virtually identical to that required to take the full type rating. Literally the only thing they would have to do in addition to any normal new hire training/check ride would be to fill out an 8710 form for the type rating and send it off to Ok city. It doesnt cost them any more money for you to stick the type on your ticket.......
I understand its a little different is RSA/other places.....if you have the 737-200 type for example, A company like SAFAIR would stick you in the right seat for a few landings and then set you loose with an LCA for a few more hours...ie mostly on the job training. In the states, this is very different. If you turned up to Colgan for example with your umpteen hundred/thousand hours on the 1900 with the type rating....they would still have to put you through a month of ground school and sim training even for the right seat.
I can see how a part 91 employer may not want to touch you...as they may not want the expense of sending you to FS for the type rating....V expensive!
I am not in the states and dont have a current copy of the Regs....someone correct me who has the regs with them....part 61.23 deals with type ratings (i think). Only aircraft over 12,500lbs OR TURBOJET aircraft (not all turbine) require the PIC only to have the type rating.
Hope this helps.
MJB
I apologise. It was Kujo who made the lawyer comments etc, not you Skaz.
Yes I have been a bit negative. I apologise.
I am not an American, and I was at one time in the same boat as you Skaz....although before 9/11.
It doesnt sound as though you have actually flown over there yet Skaz as just about any employer, including the likes of Ameriflight, American Check transport etc, would simply not care if you have the type on your licence. Your initial training/check ride that all part 135/121 carriers are required to do is virtually identical to that required to take the full type rating. Literally the only thing they would have to do in addition to any normal new hire training/check ride would be to fill out an 8710 form for the type rating and send it off to Ok city. It doesnt cost them any more money for you to stick the type on your ticket.......
I understand its a little different is RSA/other places.....if you have the 737-200 type for example, A company like SAFAIR would stick you in the right seat for a few landings and then set you loose with an LCA for a few more hours...ie mostly on the job training. In the states, this is very different. If you turned up to Colgan for example with your umpteen hundred/thousand hours on the 1900 with the type rating....they would still have to put you through a month of ground school and sim training even for the right seat.
I can see how a part 91 employer may not want to touch you...as they may not want the expense of sending you to FS for the type rating....V expensive!
I am not in the states and dont have a current copy of the Regs....someone correct me who has the regs with them....part 61.23 deals with type ratings (i think). Only aircraft over 12,500lbs OR TURBOJET aircraft (not all turbine) require the PIC only to have the type rating.
Hope this helps.
MJB
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mjbow2 what a pleasant surprise, someone who actually apologises.
Your apology accepted, thank you sir. Not to worry, we are all a little wound up about jobs etc sometimes.
I'll check in the FAR/AIM about the type rating thing, just to be sure.
Are you in Dubai?
Your apology accepted, thank you sir. Not to worry, we are all a little wound up about jobs etc sometimes.
I'll check in the FAR/AIM about the type rating thing, just to be sure.
Are you in Dubai?
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To get back to the beginning of this thread, the US airline industry seems to be on very, very thin ice....kind of like a dog sled slowly inching forward on the ice hoping to make it to land without mishap. Murphy strikes and one of the dogs goes through the ice. I wonder how many of the other dogs (regionals) would go under. I do wonder how it would play out if say United and/or US Airways went into liquidation.?
I'm an optimist but do like to consider the what-if's. Any thoughts?
I'm an optimist but do like to consider the what-if's. Any thoughts?
