125K per annum gross for CPT means, as you will have to pay taxes and put aside 30% of that for retirement 60000 net ergo 5000 per month to fly a 787 based in Bankgok and still you have to pay for your expenses both in BKK and during layovers..For FOs we are in the range 2000 euro net minus expenses ...enjoy.. but may be for you this is just a pastime...

Anyway to get round he tax issue?

125.000 per annum means slightly over 10k gross per month so take social security and taxes away from it and best case scenario you are left with slightly more than half of it.
It would be ok for some regional turbo prop operation in your own backyard but long haul for a wannabe trans Atlantic new entry that has you based on a commuting contract in BKK me thinks its almost disgusting.
Scabs isn't an offense but a state of mind, one of those I hope I will never be in.

As the fleet expands (probably rapidly ) in the future, the lack of suitable applicants may self-regulate the situation (as may a Stateside base)

Then again, it is an open secret that a significant part of the expansion will/may be in Spain . . . how many pilots with LH experience from failed Spanish carriers (including Iberia if WW has his way ) will be happy to work for 125K gross ? I would hazard, quite a few.

How many years we waited for the golden goose of "pilot shortage" that would force Ryanair to up the bar, only to see yet another company go under & save the day for MOL.

Waiting for NLH to run out of applicants could (if you wish to participate) be a similarly unrewarding pastime. If you dont want to accept the same money flying the Plastic Fantastic on longhaul as Contractors gross on the 738 . . easy, don't apply, I didn't /won't. . nobody is forcing you :rolleyes:

I still don't think that all 184 pilots (crewing eight aircraft) will be on contracts, and even less I think so in three years time from now when they are free from their bonds.

The question for everyone at this stage is therefore how much one wants to gamble. Do one think NLH will offer employment, and if so where (what base) and when, and under what t&c? If so, who will be offered employment since there is no seniority list in NLH (it can be seen as an up to three year trail period)?

You can note the difference in 737 Norwegian ops where pilots employed ("core") have very good conditions (I would say much better than for example SAS) compared to them on contract. As I understand, pilots are offered employment in the order they started on a contract, correct?

However, unfortunately none of us know about the future. We just have to make our bets.

What a dumb post is this? What is your point? What is the point in bouncing first class aviator ( sorry..not all pilot are the same) with such ridiculous t&cs to later offer permanent contracts. Probation is normally three months not 3 years. And for three years they'll keep you from the balls.It seems they have doubts themselves about this project. I tested the ground thoroughly and at the end it really seems they are only looking to crew the plane with cheapest human material,desperate, retired, p2f kids...

BTW, all burgerflippers in Norway gets a pension plan (no such thing for contractors flying for norwegian:) )

Cucuotto, you probably bring a great working environment into whatever cockpit you lay your hat. Good luck to you.

Anyone been to the interview yet that can share some experiences?

Get round the tax issue, risky business these days.

Three former colleges of mine got letters from their national tax office a while ago. They where accused of not reporting correct amount taxable income. Two of the guys were given the option to pay each a fine of € 200.000,- or face criminal prosecution. Their lawyer adviced them to take the 200 K fine since the documentation provided by the tax office was massive. The documentation was released by the end user low cost airline well known across Europe.

The last college brought his case in for the court. He is fighting his case all at his own expense. He was never given the option of paying off his problem since he was supposed to pay his tax to a different country.

It is interesting to see that the airlines, when approached by the tax offices, release all info and cover their own back.

So the circle is becoming complete... A high cost for an fATPL with all the trimmings, less experience, then bend over because it's time for a good old P2F scheme/scam, maybe there's a 6 month contract with or without a renewal at the end? You can't afford peanuts because you get paid less than a varte of bananas each month. Staff travel benefits? HAHAHAHA!!! Sorry mate, you're not really employed by us:ugh: BTW, the taxman called and we gave him whatever he asked for without questioning nor looking after your interests, because you're considered selfemployed. The taxman gets what he wants, because, again, bananas isn't what a lawyer wants for his services. So, again, bend over, you're on your own:yuk: But hey, at least the tickets keep getting cheaper so that all the unemployed by choice (i.e. the Norwegian social system - not talking about the airline here) get their sun n fun down in the Med twice yearly, paid by....wait for it.... YOU! :{
So, how about competing about who has the best T&Cs? Here's a thought; somebody has to offer the best - who can't/shouldn't it be YOUR airline?

Thanks Cucuotto, once again you throw the insults.

I am neither retired, P2F, desperate, a kid, bottom of the heap, etc, etc, etc.

I am simply looking to do something different.

Thanks. :)

I concur. Something different. If it doesn't work, move on. There will be enough 787 contract jobs by then.

While on the subject does anyone know when the upcoming courses are planned? Any new year starts?

Pin head.. yeah the will be waiting for you to screw you even more..ah ah ah!! Cannot believe how many short sighted individuals around in this business..

cucuotto

Can't let it go can you? remember you have to be in it to win it, i remember when airlines first started charging for type ratings, a guy i know who was very principled refused point blank to play that game, so spent four years flying a C152, fours years later i met him again, he was then my F/o, we did the maths (he ended up paying for a rating) and over that four years he had earned just 28K as a FI, meanwhile I had 3 years F/o money at £29k & 1 year Cpt money £54k or £141k-v-£28k, principals don't pay bills.

You've got to be in it to win

Principals always pay off in the long run and a man without any is just scum...
To pay your bills you could also sell your arse.. probably you would make even more money. Beside your FI friend had four years of instructing experience much more valuable to build airmanship than any 737 SIC time. FAA now 1500 hours before right seat of an airliner , no P2F , no bonds or **** like that. Beside..fyi I'm in it since 19 years..

Cucuotto
 

You are a c@ck, clogging up this forum with useless, unhelpful nonsense.

Hurry up and retire, get over yourself. :ugh:

Hey Nice you are not nice. I might be a c@ck but there is no doubt you are an arse hole. And what may seem nonsense to your hardly working neurons in you ant size brain ( not to worry..that is enough to follow f@king magenta line) make sense to me and to people with a little of self respect...left. Buzz off.

How about you guys grow up and focus on providing useful information?

Can we get back to the topic at hand (NLH)? :ok:

I think the deal is ok after all, if we talk about the pay.

Who says that pilots should earn so much more money than others?

If I as FO could cash (living in Sweden) about SEK 30,000 after all social taxes and income tax is paid, that equals a salary of 45,000 on a "normal" payslip. That is a very good salary in Sweden. I am very happy with that.

That's much more than the starting salary at SAS even if you pay a few thousand to your own pension. Also, do 5 years at university in Sweden and you'll end up with much less.

I just hope to get to the screening soon. :sad:

Who tells that pilot should make more money than others? You must be joking you cannot be real. But you are right for sure you don't deserve more.

Deduct holiday (10-20%), commuting to BKK, hotel, taxi, LOL and then take into consideration that a first hand renting contract of an apartment takes 10-15 years of waiting or buying a black market one for €35k and things will not be as attractive.

Forget about getting an apartment mortgage on a dodgy contract.

If you are going to deduct expenses you have to be either employed there or set up your own business in Sweden. In either case you can forget about around 65-75% of what norwegian will pay you. Also watch out for tax evasion in Thailand. I do not recommend getting in trouble there as an expat. The prisons are not of a Scandi-standard :E

Don't be blue eyed and be very careful with what you sign.

To answer the question asked earlier re the screening.

Just back from the screening in Oslo on Thursday myself. :eek:

People very friendly and appear very competent. The interview is very straightforward as is the sim. There are no tricks or catches. You are well looked after and briefed. Time in the sim is a bit tight. You have to get on and work through things quickly. They are watching everything and a lot of writing goes on in the sim. Don't do what I did and treat it like an LPC, you/they don't have that sort of time.

It has been stated on here that they are looking to fill seats and the implication is that they will take anyone. I do not believe that to be the case. They have turned down a large number of people, and many have been rejected at the interview stage for having the "wrong attitude". Some of the other candidates on my screening had quite experienced friends who had been rejected by NLH. :=
I did well in all areas including the online testing, but fluffed the sim (bad day, ran out of time) so I do not expect to be offered a place. However...... The selection team treated me fairly and did nothing to trip me up or catch me out. I can honestly say that this was one of the most pleasant selection sessions I have attended. An extremely competent Long haul skipper friend of mine attended the screening the day before me. He aced the sim and his interview went very well. He is a well balanced and friendly guy. He also did very well at the online testing. He was offered a place within 48 hrs. :D
I have been told that I will know by Monday. That's pretty damn quick. None of this keeping people hanging on for weeks on end for NLH.
My experience has been that this is a very well organised selection setup.
Others may speak differently.

To sum it up best I would say that the Norwegian staff want you to pass and will fail you reluctantly. In stark contrast, other selection procedures I have seen have selection teams that want you to fail but will pass you reluctantly. :ugh:

I cannot/will not knock NLH. The T's & C's are quite clear. If you don't like them then don't apply. If you do apply they will treat you fairly at the selection.

That's all I can say. If anybody wants more detailed info then just PM me.

Kind regards. G. :)

Cucuotto, I believe that it is a good net salary. I compare that to many other jobs in Scandinavia, including starting salary at SAS. There aren't that many airlines in Scandinavia, and very few of them offer a good starting salary. This is one of the better ones. That's how simple it is. And, as I mentioned, it is a far better salary than one you get after five years at university with the same loans as after a pilot training. Yes, you'll get better paid outside Scandinavia.

However, the setup overall is a different story. I don't support how it is presented today. But I believe there will be a change, that's why I'm interested to join this early (aircraft 3 or 4 of perhaps 20-25 in total). If you don't believe in the company, doesn't like the contract and know for sure that you won't apply, go somewhere else. I started this thread to find out about the selection and terms, not to constantly be offended by some idiot with no respect for others. I can take others opinion about the contract, but not when the criticism gets personal. How do you manage to be a part of a crew? Did you ever attend the CRM-courses? Get lost.

Jetjockey, hope for you you'll get the offer!

They want to hire you. Otherwise they have wasted their time, and time is money.
"The wrong attitude" has nothing to do with your flying skills. It´s all about wether you will put up and shut up. BK has said as much at staff meetings. Having had any kind of leadership position with a union is definitely "the wrong attitude".
BK has publicly stated that there will be no permanently employed air crew in the future, only contracted.
The T´s & C´s you see now are it. They will not improve, on the contrary management will do everything they can to lower them with time.
There are several pilot groups, all on different terms, but not necessarily speaking. Divide and conquer. Work goes to the lowest bidder.
Seniority lists are for show only, do not expect an upgrade based on one.

BK does not make a secret of this. Anybody who follows the financial news in his neck of the woods can tell you as much. If you want to know what this job is going to be like, you are wasting your time reading pprune. You should be reading back copies of Dagens Næringsliv and Finansavisen.
It´s all there, black on white, straight from the horse´s mouth.

And B.o., comparing the salary to the one at SAS (or any other legacy carrier) is ludicrous. For one your salary will increase significantly with time at SAS, and in addition you have all the regular benefits and then some.

Don't do what I did and treat it like an LPC, you/they don't have that sort of time.

Please explain more???

Yours confused.

Hi Pin head.

All I meant is they don't have time for 20 times round the hold while you plan and cross check to the nth degree before making your approach. They have the sim for a limited period of time and have to get through everybody in the time allotted. Decisions need to be made fairly quickly. Briefs need to be given somewhat quicker than you might on a normal non normal day.

A quick example would be landing distance required for the single engine landing. Do not sit with a pencil adding every increment for slope, runway elevation, temp, Vref at threshold etc.
Obviously, get out the table, but do the math quickly in your head and decide can it be done or not and put the book away.

As I said earlier, there are no catches. They are pressed for time and just want to see if you have the right idea. Calculating landing distance required to 3 decimal places will not impress them (well it might). All they need to know is that the runway is twice the length required for a single eng landing and then move on.

I attempted to be too clever and cover every last detail in the briefs for example and you simply don't have that sort of time. I hope this explanation helps.

Thanks B/O. I still have my fingers crossed but they have plenty of Applicants
I had my chance and didn't stay focused in the sim. :{

Regards all. :)

Anyone know if NLH has taken any non-widebody experienced pilots (i.e., pilots who hadn't flown for Korean, EK, QR, EVA or other similar operator)? Anyone taken with only shorthaul experience (perhaps Norwegian shorthaul or SAS)? The blinking Rishworth Aviation banner ad on PPrune focuses on "Boeing-experienced" pilots, but have they actually hired pilots with only shorthaul (i.e., 737NG only) experience?

I believe you need previous wide body experience for DEC. Otherwise you will be offered Relief Captain position initially. For FO, they have been assessing FR 737 guys with 2,000 hrs.

People I know who have passed selection couldn't get together the 30/40,000 euro cash bond, or got offered relief capt positions (I assume pay is lower for this role).

Hi Iver.

Yes they have taken non wide body B737 people for F/O position.

Hi STEXUP

Yes you are correct regarding the lifestyle on the NLH T's&C's from the point of view of commuting etc. By their own admission, it is going to be a bun fight initially. Nobody knows yet how the rosters will look, or how much time you will spend in Bangkok or Oslo etc. But in fairness, they tell you that in the interview!

I am fully aware of the setup and am prepared to live that life. I am single and my daughter has now married. I don't need a stable home life or roster. My mortgage is paid and I have money in the bank. For me the setup is acceptable. For a younger married guy or somebody with kids then things would no doubt be different. :* You want assurances about your future. I am at the stage where I don't need them. Horses for courses. You pay your money and you take your chance. If the T's & C's don't suit, then don't apply. Harsh but fair I think.
I was told about the bank guarantee and have the money sitting ready in an account. I am sure that many cannot or will not raise the cash or get a bank guarantee. :sad:

In the last 24 hrs I have been inundated with private messages from guys going to the screening. When I was at the screening plenty of the candidates had friends who were waiting to attend. Quite a few of the people I know that have attended are very experienced people with nice jobs already. For obvious reasons I cannot name names! My initial sim partner was a very senior management pilot from a very large company. Again I cannot give details for obvious reasons, but I was amazed to see him at the screening!

There is no doubt that NLH have plenty of interest in these positions. The only thing I have noticed is that a significant number of those offered positions then have second thoughts and cry off. Personally I don't understand this. There is plenty of information floating about re this job so why do people bother to apply if they are unhappy with the T's & C's? I don't get it! I would be taking the job offer and expecting the worst, if things turn out better then that would be a bonus! :D

Before anybody asks, no I don't work for NLH or Rishworth. I also don't think I will be offered a position so I have no bias or axe to grind.

Regards, :)

Agree with Jetjockey, I just don't understand the energy people are wasting here complaining about the T&C. If the grass is not greener on the other side, don't apply and stay where you are. That's how simple it is.

But for sure it is great to hear facts about the T&C. And yes, they are not the best. But for some out there, including myself, it is better than what they have. And the T&C are better than other opportunities in Scandinavia (if one wants a connection to Scandinavia). Check out any of the airlines except the major.

No matter what CEO Kjos says, I think there will be bases in Europe in the future, and I believe that people will be employed directly with NLH. It won't happen this year. Perhaps not even next year. But within three years I think that will happen.

If I am proven wrong by then, perhaps I just change my job again. Or perhaps not. If I get hired of course ;)

How do you mean connected to Scandinavia? they will base you in BKK afaik

Correct, operational base is BKK.

For one, you won't have the legal right to live in Thailand, but will enter on GENDEC.

Two, it is a commuting contract, you travel for free on NLH.

Three, you also have the opportunity to have your off-days at an outstation (i.e. for example Oslo).

In effect, you will to some extent start and finish your duty in Scandinavia.

This is even more so when the airline is to expand to the west rather than to the east, out of Scandinavia.

This is one of several reasons that I think there will be a Scandinavian base in the near future (near = within three years).

Rumoured very likely long-haul bases include LGW + BCN & MAD.

The Spanish bases are apparently not dependant on whether or not IAG pull the plug on Iberia, but of course that would speed things up.

Yeah right.. and I'm Napoleon. Guys no need to pump.. no single B777 rated pilot will apply at this conditions There are plenty of opportunities at twice the money, real commuting contract benefits, real rosters. Bases...ah ah ah!! They have already got a bad reputation after two flights to JFK...and the 787 hasn't crossed the Atlantic once I would wait a bit for that.. Happy commuting with what ? Two flights a week..from Thailand ? And enjoy your days off in Oslo..at Norwegian prices ..Mc Donalds is right on the other side of the Motel. The engineering of the deal is plain wrong. Jetjockey..Boeng Operator..it is evident you are involved either with NLH or Rishworth.. so please.. do you really think all pilots are idiots ?

Cucuotto, not everyone has such a great job as you do. Can you even for a brief moment imagine that NLH might be a better job than another?

It's so strange that you hang around here and discuss the T&C for something you don't want. Sounds to me that you are a very sad person. But of course, I'm sure you contribute to a great working environment wherever you are on duty...

I cannot. This is scraping the bottom of the barrel. What exactly are you doing now that makes this offer so attractive?
And more importantly, accepting these T&C´s is perpetuating these low standards, and forcing the rest of the industry to follow suit in the long run.

Cucuotto.

Wrong again. As stated earlier, I do not work for NLH or Rishworth. I work for a UK LoCo.

It is very strange that you appear to hang around here continually banging on about how bad this job is and giving a bad time to anyone who has even the slightest praise for NLH.

Personally I don't understand it as the thread is actually about the screening process etc. :confused: it appears you have a very nice job but lots maybe don't or just want to move on. Why can't you just leave people do what they want to do?

Hmmmm :)

Hi folks,

I am wondering, what kind of interview can one expect with NHL? Is it a lot of technical questions, how much you know about Norwegian etc., or is it more personal based?

And how was the simulator? :O

PM me if you want.

Kind reg, / K

The obvious difference between Cucuotto and me is that I live in one of the Scandinavian capitals. And between the three cities, you may travel for free with NAS. Therefore I don't have to sit around at McDonald's. NLH have flights from BKK to Scandinavia basically every day. But as mentioned earlier, the contract will let you have your offdays in Scandinavia.

If one is Scandinavian, and want to have a connection to home (as discussed previously), and want to fly long haul, there aren't that many options. You could join SAS (Smaller And Smaller) and do long haul in ten years from now. Or you could join one of the charter companies (like TUI) and do long haul in ten years from now. Or you join NLH and do long haul now. You join in a company with three destinations announced already, but with many more to come. For Scandinavia this is unique.

But no matter what arguments I bring forward that this contract suits me (please note that), I am actually looking forward to Cucuotto's next arrogant post.

Any indication on start dates?

New destinations?

Planned fleet growth.

Thanks