despegue

the legal employer is determined by 3 questions:

1) Who schedules your roster/ holidays
2) Who's uniform are you wearing
3 Who is the company ID issuer.

If all three questions are answered with Norwegian, the contract is with Norwegian and NOT with the Estonian "company".

sprite1

Does anybody know if the planned 3rd aircraft is flying out of Helsinki yet? I believe it was due to start in early May.

I was up in Helsinki about 2 weeks ago at around 10pm and their first 2 737's were all closed up for the night. Just appeared they were more on the ground for crewing issues rather than their days work been done.

Also, are the pilots being rostered 5-4 as mentioned in the interviews or are they being rostered closer to 5-2 like the contract allows?

Cheers.

dieselsix

DY pilots, I hope you take this threat seriously. This is a classic "divide and conquer" strategy. If you let this go on you will see management demanding concessions by threatening to transfer planes and routs from one base to another and you'll be unable to do anything about it because of the animosity between the two pilot groups.
Don't believe for a second they need to do this for your job security.

captplaystation

Exactly, I have seen this done very sucessfully (for them, not you !) in several companies, & indeed it is the standard "modus operandi" in Ryanair, so look where their T's &C's have gone this last 10 years if you need further evidence.

JetSyndrome

...which is why negotiations are still running hot. The problem lies mainly with the pilots themselves:

A lot of DYs pilots have done most of their flying for low-life crap airlines. They don't know how airlines (and unions) are supposed to be run. They are easily scared, and are happy to escape from Hell Airlines. Then you have those who have been around the world for decades and are fed up of living like gypsies. They do not want to start commuting to Korea or China, have another divorce and start all over again for the umpteenth time. Then let's not forget the, rather frighteningly, large proportion of "pilots", (i.e. persons who happen to have a pilot's license) who are simply, uh, not very good at what they do. DY has no real form of selection/testing, so anything goes. Quality meets its ugly twin Quantity on the way out. These "pilots" know that they will never, ever land another half-decent airline job outside Africa if DY goes belly-up.
Left standing to fight are a few good men who have the wherewithal to see there's a storm coming in. Problem is, as long as the majority of the pilots are scared s//itless and will do anything to keep their jobs, how are the union reps gonna prep their members for a strike? Because we ARE talking about a strike if a scope clause is to be signed. If DY had only been a NF/IFALPA member, the collective agreement from 2006 would already have had a scope clause in it. Parat is clueless when it comes to these kinds of negotiations. Personally, I think that DY will slowly but surely drift towards Ryanair standards and past! Poorly paid contract pilots bullied around by a crazy boss who surrounds himself with incompetent @zz-kissing gold diggers.

ENSA

Get the popcorn and beer. This IS going to be good.

I've yet to meet the fool who couldn't get in once he forked over the cash.

berserker

Any DY pilots who would like to share some info about the whole situation with Helsinki-base and so on?
I hope Parat are taking care of things?

ENSA

That was that.

- Vi ansetter ingen i Norge.

- Vi ansetter ingen i Norge - DN.no

blusky75

the contract showed is for CPT of FO?
can someone post the average salary for a FO?

thx

low n' slow

I spoke recently to a colleague who had a friend that was just offered a position in HEL. According to him, the offer was to fly 100 sectors linetraining with no salary as some sort of probation period. After these 100 sectors, a yes or no would be given for continued employment. If yes, a salary would be paid from this date onwards. Please note: this is a rumour, I'm not saying the information is correct.

Is there anyone in the know, is this what is really going on? Sounds a lot like a cheeky way to have pilots for free (much like the AAI thing going on).

/LnS

Moonwalker

If you look at the financial statements amongst majors and low costs in Europe you will soon discover that the cost structure at DY is more similar to a major. If DY wants to be successful as a low cost operator then I think they have to sort the expenses and what has started is just a desperate way of lowering the administration costs which is way too high for being called a low cost operator. Their gross profit is lower than SAS and that is most likely because they desperately sell their tickets with loss to get the numbers up. At the same time they eat up their profit with an administration and salary structure (% of Gross Profit) which is at the same level as British Airways and KLM/Air France.


If everything stays as it is at the moment then SAS will eventually start to make money and DY will still loose money or they have to increase their revenue by increasing their ticket price. If they do, they won't be seen as a low cost carrier anymore and DY really have to choose which side they want to be at and how they want to be seen by the public in the future. That is their biggest challenge at the moment. The other way to sort out the problem is to lower the administration and salary costs and this is what DY seem to be doing.

I would be very very surprised if DY offered the old good contract to the new pilots that eventually will be hired next year. I'm one of many pilots who would like to return to Scandiland, so it's not that I'm just trying to spread negative rumors about DY. Just do the calculation yourself, its a public company with public documentations, and see that with the current model it won't work in the long run, something has to be changed unfortunately

captplaystation

The old adage "if it seems too good to be true, then it probably is" very much applies here.

There is a happy hunting ground between 1 extreme (SAS) & the other (Ryanair) the task of the union is to convince both the pilots & the company that this is the best solution for everyone.

Based on previous failures on the part of both employers & employees ( to see reason & reality ) I am not too optimistic, but Hey, who knows, everyone might wake up in time.

falconetti

Noen fått invitasjon til sim enda. (Skulle være ca aug 8)
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