"Fact is niether SAS, QI or DY makes money."

That's bull!!!!, DY makes money.

Thanks Emma

Dovregubben, perhaps the month of June shows plus-figures, but Q1 showed a result of -151MNOK before taxes, albeit better than Q1 for 2008 which showed a result of -293MNOK before taxes. As far as I can recall, they have only showed positive figures once since they went from F50 to B737 low-cost operations. And today BK is threatening to relocate to an EU country (SE) if he doesn`t get his way (somewhat of a trend really). Now it`s not silly to try and save 60MNOK by doing so, but that`s not boing to be much of help if he can`t get his loans sorted out for the 2 new aircraft in August, in addition to the deposits for another 10 at the same time. Me thinks the ice is very very thin right now. Hopefully his plot thickens becuase it is 100 times better having DY than another lowcost carrier operating in Scandinavia.

Is there anything to substantiate rumours of further cutting of SAS´s long-haul flying?

Well, today, nobody in their right mind would want to touch SAS. Gvnment should have let go ages ago. Too late now. The only alternative remaining is letting Co go bust so other owner can step in, take it all over which means all existing SAS agreements with all 40 unions get nullified i.e. unions lose their power and you can start afresh. Whoever got it in their cotton picking minds to accept agreements which lets cabin attendants earn more than flight ofiicers? That's only one example of the stupidities in this Co

737Skyrider, you`ve pretty much nailed it. Stocks at an all-time low. Was trading at around NOK40 last year, today it is trading (if anyone is buying) at NOK2,7. If you want to buy an airline for peanuts then this is the time. Restructuring is ongoing, but at what pace? There has been some misfortune this last year that you really can`t blame SAS for, i.e. the Spanair disaster, the soaring oil prices and the financial crises. These are some of the things that have made the bubble burst, and since the bubble has been fairly large, it takes a bit longer to completely deflate.

Time will tell.

Excuse this post from the western side of the North Sea but I am very saddened to read this, In 1992-94 I was based in Sweden doing a job which took me all around europe and often to the USA .I flew on SAS every week and often two round trips a week ( often 4 sectors if via CPH) and my experience odf SAS was excellent in terms of time keeping and service. I know youcannot see much about the airline from seat 4A (my favourie spot on the lovely confy MDs ) but SAS service made a nightmare job bearable and I am sorry to see them in such dire straights- good wishes to all who depend on them for their livelhood that some solution will be found

pb

Good figures indeed, especially in troubling times. Well done. Of course you need to read between the lines with all these figures, but for once DY is actually showing a profit. And considering that they were about one day away from bust in August of last year, this is a very strong result. Hope SK is able to turn their downward pointing trend as well. Norway has room for both companies, we pick the one we favor, then throw s?!t at each other, but no matter what; we do not need the likes of FR here.

Still awaiting the SK figures (porbably not happy reading) as well as WF figures (which me thinks will be allright considering the entire situation).

Again, congrats to DY for showing good figures in bad times. Hope you get your finances through with the US Congress, thoug I find it funny that no Noggie banks want to finance this, including your own...

I think we all hope the proud Scandinavian Airlines System, the pioneers of the north pole, will survive.



Isn't she beautiful

Aaah....a beauty, indeed!!! Not too fuel efficient, but who cares?!
They've sure stopped making good-looking aircraft...
I'm sure SAS will survive, but in what form? Sure would hate to see Ryan swoop in and phuck it up for everyone.

I read in yesterday's paper that they are thinking of moving the "production" from Denmark and Norway to Sweden because it would reduce the costs.

How sad I fear you might be right.

Tordentalen fra konsernsjefen inneholder ganske mange sannheter. Han sier ting som burde vært sagt for 20 år siden. Det er faktisk vinn eller forsvinn, og for alles del håper jeg det blir vinn. Tenk hvor dårlig pilotmarkedet da blir for de som er up and coming. De 2 selskapene har bevist at det er rom for begge deler, og det virker som de utfyller hverandre ganske bra. Vi må for all del håpe at den spesielle iren ikke får ta for stor andel av markedet.

Be carefull, Guttn.Widerøe's next, whose employees might be expected to match DAT and (ex)KATO. The numbers are black at the moment, but accountants can be very creative.

It's a race to the bottom, and this is just the start.

Quite amazing these days that WF-pilots already is better paid than SK-pilots. I was told that a WF-captain at step 26 equals step 28 in SK. Not in annual pay, but in kr pr work day, as I understand they have more days off.

I was also told that a pilot entering SK will have to work 5 years before reaching starting salary in WF

Insurance and pension is (until further) better i SK I understand...

Cloudius

Cloud surfer, we are aware of our competition, and measures are being taken (and have been for some time now) to both cut expenses as well as making things more efficient. A little bit here and a little bit there, in all areas of operations, goes many miles at the end of the day and it`s all summed up. It`s certainly a race to the bottom (for everyone) and it`s been accelerating the last few years. More and more airlines popping up, having lower operating costs, takes its toll for sure. So the big question I keep asking myself; is this the beginning of the end of the dinosaurs aviationwise?

Cloudius, you must keep in mind that SAS added 5 years to the bottom a few years back, and has had no need to increase it since they haven`t recruited in a long long time. You must also understand that the terms salary and days off/on are 2 of the things that go into the T&C pot in every airline. And if you measure salary by sectors... well, there is more than one way to get to Rome

I understand the different perpectives, but to me personally the number of days off in relation to salary is quite important. Number of sectors (and duration) or hours is less important. Days off=time with my family.

But I didn't really try to be very specific. I just considered it slightly interesting that SK and WF T&C is getting very similar.

But if SAS survives this quite demanding situation, I would be surprised if the new pay-scale turns out to be competitive at all. They could face some degree of recruitment problems. Especially if insurance an pension goes "down the drain".

But then again, we might never get to know for sure....

The press releases today look like SAS will 'go to war' with the unions.

I suspect. SE Pilots, OK, and maybe DK and NO as well.
Cabin will strike in all countries and probably the company has a plan B for that event.

SAS needs to overhaul the whole company and it looks like they will finally do it in 2009. My guess is whatever happens it will be all finished by the end of this year and start to return something back to the owners next year.
I wouldn't buy or selll SAS shares today, but I might but towards end of 2009 provided the Cabin dont kill the company between now and then.

My opinion only, but thats how I see it.

Hej hej....

It bothers me a bit that SAS is the only airline/pilot union where salary and pension is "secret" in the sense it is not available via unions etc. in the same way as from all other operators.

Cloudius, no surprise that you don't want to be specific.

SAS pilots can release "facts" at their own will. Like "step 1-5 is not that great.." What a joke. Invent 5 levels with zero employees, the union has "given" something, bosses probably gets a nice bonus, cheapest pilot is 15 steps up from the bottom, instead of 10....

Matriks: Somewhat aggressive? I failed to see your point I just pointed out that WF-guys have worked up a very good agreement. And I am not envious. I keep by fingers crossed for everybody in the business these days. Any union/company that keeps out of "the race for the bottom" gets my (10? ) thumbs up

Ref. "step 1-5" (actually 7 new steps as I understand). My point was not to give the union a pat on the back. Most people think that move was highly theoretically. That has for long been a major SAS "management" problem. They sort of invent theoretical saving that will never materialize

I will repeat a point that is relevant for this discussion:

"...SAS is the only airline/pilot union where salary and pension is "secret" in the sense it is not available via unions etc. in the same way as from all other operators"