Norwegian and bases?
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Hanguren are wrong. Norwegian.se has sacked a number of pilots due to business going extremely bad. There are no offers to keep the job if you bond another 150.000,-.
What is happening is that lately, a large number of pilots from .se have applied the normal way for a position at .no. Among them pilots from the group of 17 that was made redundant last autumn, some from the middle part of the seniority list and some of the pilots at the top of the list that still got their job in .se.
This have the potensial of stirring up the seniority list at .se in a way that will bring opportunities for those who only can see darkness in the tunnel at this stage.
Otherwise, I know for a fact that unofficial talks are going on to find a way of taking care of most se. pilots. Some pilots are pissing in their own drinking well by spreading negative vibs that has a potensial in it to close these negotiations down on a permanent basis.
What is happening is that lately, a large number of pilots from .se have applied the normal way for a position at .no. Among them pilots from the group of 17 that was made redundant last autumn, some from the middle part of the seniority list and some of the pilots at the top of the list that still got their job in .se.
This have the potensial of stirring up the seniority list at .se in a way that will bring opportunities for those who only can see darkness in the tunnel at this stage.
Otherwise, I know for a fact that unofficial talks are going on to find a way of taking care of most se. pilots. Some pilots are pissing in their own drinking well by spreading negative vibs that has a potensial in it to close these negotiations down on a permanent basis.
tractor puller
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hard fact: .no management wants to outmanouver the MD boys. this is due to .se management has done its best to make the ship sink.
Good luck to all of you MD boys...
on the other hand, most people on both sides that actually fly for a living is showing a very professional attitude. Maybe because many of them seen these things before...keep up the good vibes!
Good luck to all of you MD boys...
on the other hand, most people on both sides that actually fly for a living is showing a very professional attitude. Maybe because many of them seen these things before...keep up the good vibes!
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Worth to mention is that many, if not all, of the .se guys joining without MD rating were bonded. They payed it through deductions from their monthly paycheck.
In my book a worthy way of treating them would be to let them go first in line to .no and continue to pay off the md rating according to plan, but recieve a 737 rating.
In my book a worthy way of treating them would be to let them go first in line to .no and continue to pay off the md rating according to plan, but recieve a 737 rating.
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Hanguren:Thanks, for your support! I know that if it was the other way around, I would be angry and make a strong statement via the pilot union. We at .se do not know where the norwegian pilot union stand on this issue. I just wish that the us/they discussion would be over, and instead...WE!
Generally I can say that we all understand that business is business. But, the management confirms that the company is not doing that bad actually. Sales numbers are record high and the MD-80 is flying cheaper than ever. This mainly thanks to a high utility of the fleet, low fuel costs and low leasing costs. The main thing here is that the company on purpose (on mandate from the board in Norway) is planning the fleet on a record low number of pilots. Neither one of us believe that these numbers are realistic. 36 pilots on four (potentially 6) aircraft is quite a low figure in a low-cost carrier, no?
They already know at this stage, that they will need to fill many more seats with contract guys (this instead of keeping us on the permanent pay-roll). On top of that, aviod paying for our type-ratings. So they do everything right according to the lawyers and business executives... But then again, where is the moral aspect!!
Generally I can say that we all understand that business is business. But, the management confirms that the company is not doing that bad actually. Sales numbers are record high and the MD-80 is flying cheaper than ever. This mainly thanks to a high utility of the fleet, low fuel costs and low leasing costs. The main thing here is that the company on purpose (on mandate from the board in Norway) is planning the fleet on a record low number of pilots. Neither one of us believe that these numbers are realistic. 36 pilots on four (potentially 6) aircraft is quite a low figure in a low-cost carrier, no?
They already know at this stage, that they will need to fill many more seats with contract guys (this instead of keeping us on the permanent pay-roll). On top of that, aviod paying for our type-ratings. So they do everything right according to the lawyers and business executives... But then again, where is the moral aspect!!
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But isn`t this pretty much the same as the cabin crew are getting? Most are not directly employed by the company, but are leased in through an agency. Meaning the company does not need to pay for leave of absence, insurances, etc (arbeidsgiveravgift), and the numbers for sick-leave are only reflected through those who are direvtly employed by the company. Perfectly legal, but morally disgusting
. Cutting costs at any cost it seems
.
. Cutting costs at any cost it seems.
Last edited by Guttn; 19th Jan 2009 at 05:21.
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GUTTN: Seriuosly, what are you talking about?! I don't even work for the company so I'm not a big defender of what they do and don't do, but when you start writing things like that on a "professional" forum it pisses me off! Do you really believe that Norwegian puts safety aside in order to keep prices as low as possible?! Norwegian is perfectly aware of the impact that bad publicity caused by lack of safety procedures would render. Dig deeper... Come on, you're better than that! Rubbish!
Have a nice weekend everybody! I'm off to Cuba!
Have a nice weekend everybody! I'm off to Cuba!
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BG, not what I`ve heard. When the CC-case was highlighted by the media, the company was quick to denounce things especially since they were being subsidized by Ullensaker kommune for CCs. From people I know in the company, this hasn`t changed much at all, allthough the subsidies may have halted.
Dissident, no I don`t believe that, but I`m not far from believing it either. What I`m saying is that with everything aviation-related, it always takes an accident/disaster/loss of life etc for procedures to change. Should probably have put that on a few line further down, as it does imply some things. Sorry `bout that. But I really think that people should be aware of how they are able to offer "cheap" tickets - often below what the costs of R2 standby tickets are.
have a nice trip to Cuba
Dissident, no I don`t believe that, but I`m not far from believing it either. What I`m saying is that with everything aviation-related, it always takes an accident/disaster/loss of life etc for procedures to change. Should probably have put that on a few line further down, as it does imply some things. Sorry `bout that. But I really think that people should be aware of how they are able to offer "cheap" tickets - often below what the costs of R2 standby tickets are.
have a nice trip to Cuba
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Guttn,
I have noticed your extremely negative attitude towards Norwegian.You have never worked for the company so you should be very cautious by statements like those in your resent posts. As far as I know you have worked for Benair and WF since you came back from abroad.
When you state it requires an accident before "things" will change I take it that you are fullly aware of the history of your own company
I have noticed your extremely negative attitude towards Norwegian.You have never worked for the company so you should be very cautious by statements like those in your resent posts. As far as I know you have worked for Benair and WF since you came back from abroad.
When you state it requires an accident before "things" will change I take it that you are fullly aware of the history of your own company
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paradropper, that`s 2 times affirmative. And, for the record, the "accident" remark was regarding aviation in general, not necessarily DY. But unfortunately, safety is not a free-be
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As with everything safety related in aviation; it takes an accident... But I sincerely hope they don`t have one. Unfortunately, that`s probably what it takes for the media to dig a bit deeper into the issues behind and find out why they can offer "cheap" tickets to the flying public
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another live one.
Dear ms. Guttern.
You must clearly be an idiot.
I am sure that the empolyees of Norwegian are glad that You did not pass the intervju.
What I do not understand is how on earth You got a job with such a respective company as Wideroe.
idiotsrus...join the club
You must clearly be an idiot.
I am sure that the empolyees of Norwegian are glad that You did not pass the intervju.
What I do not understand is how on earth You got a job with such a respective company as Wideroe.
idiotsrus...join the club
Last edited by idiotsrus; 18th Jan 2009 at 19:56.
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Hey people. Let's not start calling each other names in here. That just doesn't add anything to the discussion.
Different people have different oppinions.
Mr moderator, please give us a break from this idiotsrus character.
BD
Different people have different oppinions.
Mr moderator, please give us a break from this idiotsrus character.
BD
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Jeeeez!!! Once somebody questions what lies behind then everybody feels trampled on
. OK, I`ve edited the post. Happy now? It doesn`t mean I`ve changed my opinion though. Time will tell
idiotsrus, it takes one to know one FYI, I declined the employment offer by said company due to various reasons, though they called me with a "yes" the day after the interview - including "when can you be done with your typerating?"
. OK, I`ve edited the post. Happy now? It doesn`t mean I`ve changed my opinion though. Time will tellidiotsrus, it takes one to know one
FYI, I declined the employment offer by said company due to various reasons, though they called me with a "yes" the day after the interview - including "when can you be done with your typerating?"
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ulykker og annet tjafs litt til sides, norwegian har vel bestilt et 40talls fly som er på vei en etter en, noen allerede levert pluss flere 10talls opsjoner( arrester meg på tallene her men tror ikke det er helt skivebom) hvis vi så trekker fra de leaste flyene som jeg tipper det r planer om å kvitte seg med så uansett ender de vel opp med en flåte mye større enn i dag? og dette vil vel si at de må ansette en del folk, både i cockpit og cabin. vet at flyene skal fordeles litt her og der men virker jo som man ender i pluss( fly altså, nødvendigvis ikke tallene under brøken)
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Hanguruen....
I'll hurry up and conclude the discussion from my side too, then.
What does it matter if you've heard of them or not? Or what point does the +-300 / +-0 have to do with the discussion? The point being WF was purchased by SAS, and maintained two seperate AOCs; much like Norwegian.no purchased what was then FlyNordic and renamed it Norwegian.se. Two seperare AOCs, with pilots having about as much "integrated seniority" between them as pilots do between SAS and Widerøe. Now, back to my point.....those 6 WF pilots would NOT be invited to automatically come over to SAS, even if you were hiring at that point. Why not I might ask?
At that point they would both be at about 600,000K, wouldn't you say? First year WF captain and senior SC First Officer? If you want, we could additionally crunch numbers such as pension contribution, insurance and allowances and the figures just might look right. I agree that today you will never head of a SC copilot earning more than a WF captain.... but times do change.
Fair point. I'll give you that. But you were arguing that Norwegian.no has a moral obligation to hire them, right? Which, I expect, just like you would argue that SAS would have a moral obligation to hire furloughed Spanair, WF or Blue One pilots if SAS was actually hiring?
Yes, Yes, but they're not technically in the same company, are they? Once again we're speaking hypothetically, but if SAS was hiring you'd still be requiring new application from pilots of WF, Spanair and all the other subsidiaries, would you not? And you would maintain whatever minimum hiring requirements SAS has?
Well, I never really said I flew for Norwegian now, did I? But it's time for me to conclude the discussion as well.
These guys are getting shafted, and it sucks. But if you want to defend their right to come across from the one company to the other without formalities, then I expect you to do the same for all the companies in the SAS group, as well as any other consortium of airlines. But you won't.
There really is no difference. That's my point.
CS
I'll hurry up and conclude the discussion from my side too, then.
- I have never heard about those 6 WF pilots, but I do know that SAS have fired +/- 300 pilots, and WF +/- 000 pilots during the past few years.
- I have never ever heard about an SC copilot earning more than a WF captain, simply because they are NOT! This is a plain lie from your side!
- I have never claimed that Spanair pilots should have full seniority in SAS, and neither that .se pilots should have full seniority in n#%€"!.no!
I just say that YOUR threatment of the .se pilots with new application and sek 150.000 second bonding (!!!) to stay in the company etc etc is a way to treat employees that after my opinion should not be legal anywhere in the world, and not be expected in the western sivilisation!
AND: I am still not very proud being a norwegian pilot after this behaviour by your company: NORWEGIAN.NO!
This is a deal so unheard of that it will mark our norwegian pilot community throughout Europe for years to come! Hopefully they will understand that not all of us are like you and your always smiling president Bjørn Kjos!
If you want to continue argueing for your bosses money, please do it without me - the .se pilots do this job much better than me! And they are right - not you!
Best of luck to you norwegian.se pilots - hope to see you on line in a very near future!
This is a deal so unheard of that it will mark our norwegian pilot community throughout Europe for years to come! Hopefully they will understand that not all of us are like you and your always smiling president Bjørn Kjos!
If you want to continue argueing for your bosses money, please do it without me - the .se pilots do this job much better than me! And they are right - not you!
Best of luck to you norwegian.se pilots - hope to see you on line in a very near future!
These guys are getting shafted, and it sucks. But if you want to defend their right to come across from the one company to the other without formalities, then I expect you to do the same for all the companies in the SAS group, as well as any other consortium of airlines. But you won't.
There really is no difference. That's my point.
This conclude this discussion from my side!
Last edited by Cloud surfer; 21st Jan 2009 at 12:07.
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I'm back! If you haven't been to Cuba, you should go! Great place!
Good solid post by surfer! Seems like the forum has been focused on polemic issues since I last visited...
Has any of the LF-crew been offered a contract with Norwegian.no yet? Heard that there is still no news regarding CPH-base for the .no-guys. Seems weird! What are they waiting for? It's been 3 months since mr Kjos announced the CPH-base and still nobody has heard anything about it...
Guttn: apology accepted, by-gones! Still think you're wrong but I agree with the statement that it often takes an accident before the oublic is made aware of circumstances that are dangerous within a company. I honestly think Ryanair has more dangers hiding in the dark... But that's off topic!
How are things at .se? Any news?
Good solid post by surfer! Seems like the forum has been focused on polemic issues since I last visited...
Has any of the LF-crew been offered a contract with Norwegian.no yet? Heard that there is still no news regarding CPH-base for the .no-guys. Seems weird! What are they waiting for? It's been 3 months since mr Kjos announced the CPH-base and still nobody has heard anything about it...
Guttn: apology accepted, by-gones! Still think you're wrong but I agree with the statement that it often takes an accident before the oublic is made aware of circumstances that are dangerous within a company. I honestly think Ryanair has more dangers hiding in the dark... But that's off topic!
How are things at .se? Any news?
