daydreamer89

Hi, i've been a lurker for over a year now. I've learnt quite a bit from reading in this forum. I now have a few questions that i haven't found the answers to.


Work schedules.
I know roster patterns at Wideroe is 7 on 7 off with newcomers based in the north of Norway, then you bid south if you'd like. I'd like to know how the 7 days at work is like. Do you get to go home after each work day? How long are the work days? And how does it all work out with your spouse/social life in general?

I'm asking because i'd like to know what the differences from a "normal" 9-5 job in practice are (would very much appreciate answers from those who had a 9-5 job before entering aviation).

Oh, and is the 7on7off the only pattern? Does it get better with seniority?

Same Q's for NAS and SAS (both 5on4off?)

Thanks beforehand.

Guttn

This is very hard to answer since there are just too many variables involved.
If you live at, or close to, your home base, then you can expect to have a few nights at home during your work period. How many? Don`t know. It depends on what your schedule says (dfferent every month). Otherwise... nightstops. If you`re commuting there is little chance of getting home during your week. But if you manage to do so, you spend a lot of that time flying to/from work, so a lot of people just stay put and relax until the next day
Working days are governed by JAA regultations on duty time, in addition to industrial agreements - as in any airline. Some flight leave early, some leave in the afternoon, and sometimes you`re on standby.
Commuting is a lifestyle, and if you want to do this then make sure your companion knows the real deal (I guess that`s why you`re asking in the first place, right?).
What work is like? Can`t speak for NAS/SAS since I`ve never flown for them, but flying the Dash, mainly shortfield, is a LOT of fun. Look forward to going to work every time

As I mentioned though, this is a very general question, so it`s also very difficult to give an exact answer. But to put it this way; you get your roster (always on time) and read through it. Some months are better than others for commuting.

daydreamer89

Hi Guttn

Thanks for the quick reply. I'm glad to hear you're enjoying yourself, and that Wideroe is a proper airline.

I can see that there really is no one specific answer to my q's. My intention was to find out how life in general is affected by the work schedules of the aforementioned airlines contra that of a "normal" (non-commuting) job.

I'm an engineering student, so it is a bit early for me to ask these questions since I can only simulate in my head how life will be like when i become one and therefore am not qualified to compare these two careers and the lifestyles that come with them. Still, it's interesting to know.

I just thought that the ryan air schedules sounded pretty alright. 5 earlies, 3 days off, 5 lates, 3 days off. You get to be home every day/night. Then again i haven't experienced it, how would i know.

Back to wideroe:
From your reply (Guttn) I gather the norm is 7 days away from home and at work, then 7 days at home. These 7 days are as far as i understand not spread around unevenly, they are 7 day blocks. You get your schedule on time every time, meaning you can plan ahead and have some structure in your life thereby upping life quality in general , awesome.

I was wondering if you could share a "typical" (no such thing i know) monthly schedule. Maybe last month's? It would be very interesting to see.

Crossunder

Here goes... I've worked for WF and am now in DY.
The WF 7-7 roster is nice if you are based where you live. Otherwise, it will mean 7 days away from your family. (FAR away, unless you live in Northern Norway?) That is, plus the commuting one day ahead/after the 7 days. More often than necessary, it was more like 9 on - 5 off... Anyway, I chose the second option for line pilots; fixed start day (for me; Tuesday) with every weedend off. That would be 4 on - 2 off - 3 on - 5 off. For ME, that was much better, as I would always have the weekend with the family, and I think 7 days straight is too much work. 7 days off is also too much - I got bored after 5 days or so... If you have to commute, the 7-7 is probably better, as you get away with less commuting.
Since I absolutely, positively, had had enough of Northern Norway, commuting and flying 7-8 legs every day for 7 days straight - I opted for DY. Bases are more attractive, and the fixed 5 on - 4 off pattern suits me just fine. I still fly relatively short sectors, fly to Northern Norway once in a while, I fly all over Europe (and now Dubai) and enjoy much more variation. Also, the Canary Islands night stops will probably be more enjoyable than Vadsø or Brønnøysund...
WF pilots have fewer days of work per year, but they actually have to work for their money (except TRF crews... ;-) ). My working days are best compared to the TRF crews on the Q400. 2-6 legs of "work", and - so far - no more commuting to Bodø or Tromsø. Although we are seing more layovers on our rosters, I have more time at home with my family now, than what I used to in WF. For me, I'd say not more than 10 night stops during the last 8-9 months.
It is really like comparing apples and pears. It is purely subjective, depends on your family and what you feel would suit your needs the best. I have no idea what would be best for you...

Kystflygar

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Guttn

Crossunder, I disagree with you on one point; when you mention distance from home being a factor, but actually it is all about time away from home. You could just as easily be 7 days at work in let`s say Italy (first place that popped in mind). You`re still going to be 7 days away from home, so the geography shouldn`t really matter. As for rostering, yes indeed we can plan ahead due to fixed start day (and end). You can see in advance how your Christmas, Easter, birthdays and anniversaries are going to fit into your work pattern - and therefore plan ahead just by taking a quick peek at the calendar. No need to start counting days on and off

Daydreamer, 7 days on means 7 consecutive days on, and 7 off means 7 off. Unless, of course, you opt for the pattern that Crossunder mentions. It all depends on what suits you best. A typical roster is that nothing is the same as the month before. We have so many daily flights as a company, that I really can`t expect any certain nightstops, only that I always begin my workperiod from my base, and typically end up there at the end of my week. Nightstops are what you make of it. You can stay in your room, or go out and do something. Its all up to you really.

We cab probably argue pros and cons until 2050 or so, but at the end of the day, it`s really all about what suits you best. Just keep in mind that with any airline job you`re going to spend a lot of time away from home, and often begin very early and/or end very late.

empati

SAS Norway has a 5 on 4 off system. Several vacation systems, including a rotation system that gives you a 13 d off period every other month. (Every month if you bid LOA 83%, which is fantastic! 5-4-5-13-5-4-5-4-5-13 rotation) The combination of domestic and European destinations, network and charter is nice. Fly to Egypt, Canaries, Azores, The Med, the Alps, Iceland, Capitals of Europe! Do all this, and most of the time, be on time.

Jøss! For en reklame!

TheFatMan

Yepp, if SAS were recruiting they most likely would get some applications. but...

Have been some small talk earlier if NAS were to adopt the old BU system with the 13 days off rotation but nothing happened, I for one wouldn´t mind that system. But must say the 5-4-5-4 works pretty nice as well!

Guttn

Fatman, just out of curiosity... With your 5-4-5-4 system; do you have any agreements as to earliest check-in time on the first day and latest on the last? And the same q regarding at the beginning and end of holidays

empati

At SAS you have several bidding options. Afternoon schedules for example, will give you late check-in, late check-out.

Oh yes.. no hireing! Avg age 50, so within 10 years SAS should need approx. 1000 pilots...Don't tell the management..they still does not know!

TheFatMan

@ Guttn - we have late or early workperiods. Check in early first day, check out early on the fifth day. Late check in, late check out.

No different if you have leave/vacation.

@ empati - guess that will be SAS management next tough issue to solve, but they must have a small idea since they at least tried to make 90 of the 60+ pilots leave instead of the young pilots (or not as old... ). But hear rumours the 60+ are opposing the solution? Truth?

TFM

empati

The danish 60+ers apparently agree on retiring if furlough start. Some few of the norwegian 60+ers want to take SAS to the courts. This will take years, and as long as they have an appeal, they can continue. The Swedes..I don't know.

These guys have the best pay, pension and loss of license in Scandinavia thanks to their unions work over the years. And then they choose to go solo and stab fellow members in the back to get an extra 6 million over 7 years, in addition to their pension. In the same time they risk sending an overdue first officer on furlough and personal crisis. This is appalling!!