SAS pilot strike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: On the sunny side of the street
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SAS pilot strike
The so called "pilotforbundet" representing about 100 SAS pilots has called a strike for sunday the 18. The purpose of the strike is to obtain a separate collective agreement with which to capitalize their current positions on long haul through improvements in their own benefits.
Their egotistical attempt is beyond contempt as are their threats to other SAS pilots regarding letters to IFALPA - an organisation which has never even heard of them.
Help SAS break pilotforbundets strike by flying extra flights on long haul.
brgds Kingsnake
Their egotistical attempt is beyond contempt as are their threats to other SAS pilots regarding letters to IFALPA - an organisation which has never even heard of them.
Help SAS break pilotforbundets strike by flying extra flights on long haul.
brgds Kingsnake
Hmm, er en "kingsnake" giftig?Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: On the sunny side of the street
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pilotforbundet is threatening to report those who fly to IFALPA as scabs. However as far as I know IFALPA has written to PFOR endorsing their plan to break pilotforbundets strike as it is a hostile act against IFALPA members by a free rider union.
So support SAS and PFOR and break pilotforbundet once and for all.
I will.
brgds Kingsnake (yes very dangerous
)
So support SAS and PFOR and break pilotforbundet once and for all.
I will.
brgds Kingsnake (yes very dangerous
)
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Camp X-Ray
Posts: 2,135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You said that about the BA strike too. You've certainly got your fingers crossed that airline management teams around the world are going to suddenly want otherwise unemployable individuals in their operations. As captains of course.
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Europe
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Careful....
Yes,
pilotforbundet tried to turn this issue upside down. They attempted to intimidate other SAS pilots so that they would not report for work when their strike breaks out.
However, as SPF is the official IFALPA affiliate in Sweden(and there can be only one), the actions taken by pilotforbundet will be looked upon as hostile. They are not in a position to report anybody to somebody.
So, if this really happens the members of pilotforbundet are the ones who will be in bad standing with IFALPA. Just the way it should be.
The rather amusing thing is that they seem to think that the actions of ca. 110-120 pilots will accomplish anything. Especially after SAS came out and stated that they WILL NOT enter into any other collective bargaining agreement.
Seriously, dont do this, you will be sorry. Initially it will hurt all of us, then only those who go down this path.
Ramrise
pilotforbundet tried to turn this issue upside down. They attempted to intimidate other SAS pilots so that they would not report for work when their strike breaks out.
However, as SPF is the official IFALPA affiliate in Sweden(and there can be only one), the actions taken by pilotforbundet will be looked upon as hostile. They are not in a position to report anybody to somebody.
So, if this really happens the members of pilotforbundet are the ones who will be in bad standing with IFALPA. Just the way it should be.
The rather amusing thing is that they seem to think that the actions of ca. 110-120 pilots will accomplish anything. Especially after SAS came out and stated that they WILL NOT enter into any other collective bargaining agreement.
Seriously, dont do this, you will be sorry. Initially it will hurt all of us, then only those who go down this path.
Ramrise
Last edited by Ramrise; 13th May 2008 at 06:15.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Norway
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whatever will happen, and regardless of how pissed some of you are at pilotförbundet; This is a very bad situation for all pilots in SAS! 15 years after the takeover of LIN, there are still a big conflict between the groups!
Will we in 10-15 years time see the same with ex BU and ex SC pilots...?
2 pilot unions in SAS Sweden, 3 pilot unions in Norway, but still (so far...) only one union in Denmark...!!!
Something goes wrong every time SAS take over an other airline. The deal may look OK for SAS pilots at the time of the agreement, but this is a killer for the pilot community in the company in the long term!!
Will we in 10-15 years time see the same with ex BU and ex SC pilots...?
2 pilot unions in SAS Sweden, 3 pilot unions in Norway, but still (so far...) only one union in Denmark...!!!
Something goes wrong every time SAS take over an other airline. The deal may look OK for SAS pilots at the time of the agreement, but this is a killer for the pilot community in the company in the long term!!
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Europe
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Heads up!
Hanguren,
Something goes wrong everytime somebody buys somebody else!!! The industry is overflowing with examples of mergers, integrations and takeovers. And I have NEVER heard of any Seniority List Integration that went well. Some just go badly, others become disasters during the course of time.
Why??
Among other things: unrealistic expectations from employees, bad management and the environment in which the process takes place.
Ramrise
Something goes wrong everytime somebody buys somebody else!!! The industry is overflowing with examples of mergers, integrations and takeovers. And I have NEVER heard of any Seniority List Integration that went well. Some just go badly, others become disasters during the course of time.
Why??
Among other things: unrealistic expectations from employees, bad management and the environment in which the process takes place.
Ramrise
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 59Nord
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its legal..
Contrary to allmoust all other strikes at SAS, including those applauded by many here, in the past few years, this is actually a legal and legitamate work-action according to Swedish and international law.
With due negotiations and warnings to the company and public several weeks in advance.
Something SAS could only dream of when it comes to the many yearly, illegal strikes in Denmark
.
Mind also that SPF (Swedish ALPA) contrary to most other national unions, has refused "pilotförbundet", the second largest pilotunion, a representative in IFALPA. This is quite remarkable cosidering their "smooth talk" about unity and how strong we would be together..
With due negotiations and warnings to the company and public several weeks in advance.
Something SAS could only dream of when it comes to the many yearly, illegal strikes in Denmark
.Mind also that SPF (Swedish ALPA) contrary to most other national unions, has refused "pilotförbundet", the second largest pilotunion, a representative in IFALPA. This is quite remarkable cosidering their "smooth talk" about unity and how strong we would be together..
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 59Nord
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Blindfolded?
"only one union in Denmark"..
Is that because the Danish pilots prey on others, earn 30% more than the others and go on illegal strikes every 6 months to get what they want?!
So watever you guys do, dont ever let yourselves be bought by a Danish-run carrier, they will take youre job and salary with no hesitation at all.
As a group they simply seem to completely lack moral and empathy. (Sorry, does off course not apply to the few great Danish colleagues I do know exist.)
Is that because the Danish pilots prey on others, earn 30% more than the others and go on illegal strikes every 6 months to get what they want?!
So watever you guys do, dont ever let yourselves be bought by a Danish-run carrier, they will take youre job and salary with no hesitation at all.
As a group they simply seem to completely lack moral and empathy. (Sorry, does off course not apply to the few great Danish colleagues I do know exist.)
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Scandi
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you are not with us - you are....?
Captain S Pehrsson
President
Pilotförbundet
Box 170
195 24 Märsta
Dear Captain Pehrsson
We are aware that Pilotförbundet has been using the name of the Federation in press releases
and letters without any authority and must insist that this ceases immediately. As far as the
broader issue is concerned, I attach a letter that we have sent to the President of SPF that I
trust makes our position clear.
Yours sincerely
Captain Carlos Limón
President
Captain Kenneth Jensen 09IND008
President 9th May 2008
Svensk Pilot Förening
PO Box 1139
S111 81 Stockholm
Sweden
Dear Captain Jensen
Thank you for the information regarding the actions of Pilotforbundet against SPF.
It is not acceptable to the Federation that this group is seeking to undermine SPF as the sole
negotiator for SAS pilots with the company, and your position as the IFALPA Member
Association in Sweden. I can assure you that DPF, NSF and SPF have our full support in
resisting any action to divide the SAS pilots in Sweden, and the IFALPA Industrial Manual
makes clear in Chapter 1.2.2 that the actions of Pilotforbundet are considered as an act of
hostility and a direct attack on IFALPA itself and will be dealt with accordingly.
Please keep us informed of further developments.
Yours sincerely
Captain Carlos Limón
President
Captain Georg Fongern
Principal Vice-President
Professional Affairs
President
Pilotförbundet
Box 170
195 24 Märsta
Dear Captain Pehrsson
We are aware that Pilotförbundet has been using the name of the Federation in press releases
and letters without any authority and must insist that this ceases immediately. As far as the
broader issue is concerned, I attach a letter that we have sent to the President of SPF that I
trust makes our position clear.
Yours sincerely
Captain Carlos Limón
President
Captain Kenneth Jensen 09IND008
President 9th May 2008
Svensk Pilot Förening
PO Box 1139
S111 81 Stockholm
Sweden
Dear Captain Jensen
Thank you for the information regarding the actions of Pilotforbundet against SPF.
It is not acceptable to the Federation that this group is seeking to undermine SPF as the sole
negotiator for SAS pilots with the company, and your position as the IFALPA Member
Association in Sweden. I can assure you that DPF, NSF and SPF have our full support in
resisting any action to divide the SAS pilots in Sweden, and the IFALPA Industrial Manual
makes clear in Chapter 1.2.2 that the actions of Pilotforbundet are considered as an act of
hostility and a direct attack on IFALPA itself and will be dealt with accordingly.
Please keep us informed of further developments.
Yours sincerely
Captain Carlos Limón
President
Captain Georg Fongern
Principal Vice-President
Professional Affairs
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: On the sunny side of the street
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seems like President Carlos really spelled it out.
"Pilotforbundet is commiting a hostile act against IFALPA".
And I just love his letter to pilotforbundet: Don´t use our name and don´t write again - love Carlos!
I guess we will now hear that IFALPA is under some kind of svengali influence of the danish pilot union!
OR maybe the rest of the world is right and pilotforbundet is wrong.
Flying on monday and looking forward to it.
Kingsnake
"Pilotforbundet is commiting a hostile act against IFALPA".
And I just love his letter to pilotforbundet: Don´t use our name and don´t write again - love Carlos!
I guess we will now hear that IFALPA is under some kind of svengali influence of the danish pilot union!
OR maybe the rest of the world is right and pilotforbundet is wrong.
Flying on monday and looking forward to it.
Kingsnake
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Norway
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, I am not swedish, and nor a member in SPF og Pilotförbundet, but I have been quite active in union work some years ago, and the situation is not new. IFALPA have some quite strange and hard rules regarding who is a part of the accosiation, and this have led to a lot of disputes in many contries:
In Finland, the union of Finnair had a sole right to be a part of IFALPA, which led to a situation where Blue1 pilots could not join the international community. Was that fair...? I think not...!
In Canada, the situation was opposite; A dispute between Air Canada pilots and pilots from regional carriers (surprise; regarding seniority...!) led to a situation where pilots in all carriers in Canada except Air Canada pilots are a part of IFALPA. This was like 15 years ago, and Air Canada pilots are still not a part of IFALPA. A good situation...? I think not...!
I neither salute or get angry about the actions by "Pilotförbundet". I can understand their opinions, I do not agree with all of them, but as I have written before; Even though SAS is not alone: They way they have incorporated other pilot groups tend to lead to separation and not unity. If all mergers were done the same way it would probably have been easier to accept, but when they even cant descide in ONE way to handle mergers, SAS and the pilot unions are asking for trouble!
And by the way; Danish pilots are as nice guys as us Norwegians.... - and actually also those Swedes...!
In Finland, the union of Finnair had a sole right to be a part of IFALPA, which led to a situation where Blue1 pilots could not join the international community. Was that fair...? I think not...!
In Canada, the situation was opposite; A dispute between Air Canada pilots and pilots from regional carriers (surprise; regarding seniority...!) led to a situation where pilots in all carriers in Canada except Air Canada pilots are a part of IFALPA. This was like 15 years ago, and Air Canada pilots are still not a part of IFALPA. A good situation...? I think not...!
I neither salute or get angry about the actions by "Pilotförbundet". I can understand their opinions, I do not agree with all of them, but as I have written before; Even though SAS is not alone: They way they have incorporated other pilot groups tend to lead to separation and not unity. If all mergers were done the same way it would probably have been easier to accept, but when they even cant descide in ONE way to handle mergers, SAS and the pilot unions are asking for trouble!
And by the way; Danish pilots are as nice guys as us Norwegians.... - and actually also those Swedes...!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: On the sunny side of the street
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good points!
However, any agreement must be binding to all parties as long as no substitute agreement is reached.
Pilotforbundet has for several years tried to advocate a new agreement to replace the one on which the merger is based. Neither SAS, nor the SAS pilots are interested. So now Pilotforbundet will try to strike their way to getting what they want.
Guess what, they´re going to get hammered, first in the strike, and if they keep moaning they can expect more pain in the next collective agreement.
brgds Kingsnake
However, any agreement must be binding to all parties as long as no substitute agreement is reached.
Pilotforbundet has for several years tried to advocate a new agreement to replace the one on which the merger is based. Neither SAS, nor the SAS pilots are interested. So now Pilotforbundet will try to strike their way to getting what they want.
Guess what, they´re going to get hammered, first in the strike, and if they keep moaning they can expect more pain in the next collective agreement.
brgds Kingsnake
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Norway
Posts: 286
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kingsnake:
So what is that supposed to mean Einstein? Hope you´re not raising any children! We have enough psychos running around as it is. 
and if they keep moaning they can expect more pain in the next collective agreement.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 59Nord
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Greed
IFALPA is a "political" organization, not a legal one!
And the question right now seem to be if they are able and willing to cope with todays rapidly changing airline world?
If only "founding members" (Read old flag-carriers..) are allowed as members, while ignoring and refusing other groups to participate i their work, they will probably not be able to represent us as one group in the future. And that is a great loss for all of us!
Still in 2008, seniority lists are used by greedy unions as a way to gain money and command on behalf of less fortunate colleagues, it is simply discousting!
I also recieved this today..
Hello cap10lobo!
This is a special announcement from PPRuNe Forums Admin. Further to our previous message about keeping your email address up to date and your password secure, we have found the cause of the repeated hack attempts into members accounts is a script (HackBot) that has been written with malicious and nuisance intent. As members profiles do not contain any information that should be of any value to hackers and studying the way the hack attempts have been carried out, it has been determined that the HackBot is intended as a Denial of Service (DoS) attack.
As the computer running the HackBot is using an AOL IP address, after it has randomly tried to access an account, the account is locked out and the IP address blocked for 15 minutes. If another AOL user with the same IP address tries to log-in within the 15 minutes of lock-out, they will get the locked out message too.
In order to stifle the HackBot, we have had to block the IP address being used which has caused more inconvenience to some AOL users. For this we apologise but it is the only way we can prevent the HackBot from running. We have also introduced a 'Captcha' image code section to the log-in which is designed to make sure that it is a human rather than a Bot trying to access PPRuNe. The Captcha image code is turned on and off randomly and you may or may not encounter it.
Overall, the recent attack has not breached our security and is intended only to be a nuisance to the Admin of the site and to our members. It has only partially succeeded and the appropriate authorities have been notified.
Once again, we apologise for any inconvenience that may have been caused by the extra security we have had to implement. Please click here to contact us for if you need any assistance.
Is this what happens if you say tru but inconvenient things?
And the question right now seem to be if they are able and willing to cope with todays rapidly changing airline world?
If only "founding members" (Read old flag-carriers..) are allowed as members, while ignoring and refusing other groups to participate i their work, they will probably not be able to represent us as one group in the future. And that is a great loss for all of us!
Still in 2008, seniority lists are used by greedy unions as a way to gain money and command on behalf of less fortunate colleagues, it is simply discousting!
I also recieved this today..
Hello cap10lobo!
This is a special announcement from PPRuNe Forums Admin. Further to our previous message about keeping your email address up to date and your password secure, we have found the cause of the repeated hack attempts into members accounts is a script (HackBot) that has been written with malicious and nuisance intent. As members profiles do not contain any information that should be of any value to hackers and studying the way the hack attempts have been carried out, it has been determined that the HackBot is intended as a Denial of Service (DoS) attack.
As the computer running the HackBot is using an AOL IP address, after it has randomly tried to access an account, the account is locked out and the IP address blocked for 15 minutes. If another AOL user with the same IP address tries to log-in within the 15 minutes of lock-out, they will get the locked out message too.
In order to stifle the HackBot, we have had to block the IP address being used which has caused more inconvenience to some AOL users. For this we apologise but it is the only way we can prevent the HackBot from running. We have also introduced a 'Captcha' image code section to the log-in which is designed to make sure that it is a human rather than a Bot trying to access PPRuNe. The Captcha image code is turned on and off randomly and you may or may not encounter it.
Overall, the recent attack has not breached our security and is intended only to be a nuisance to the Admin of the site and to our members. It has only partially succeeded and the appropriate authorities have been notified.
Once again, we apologise for any inconvenience that may have been caused by the extra security we have had to implement. Please click here to contact us for if you need any assistance.
Is this what happens if you say tru but inconvenient things?
Last edited by cap10lobo; 17th May 2008 at 11:28.
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Europe
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Facts
cap10lobo,
I sense that you are at least somewhat sympathetic to the goals of Pilotforbundet. Let me just say that I am not.
But, you must acknowledge that Pilotforbundet, in this case, is the aggressive party. Regardless of what you or I think, they are trying to muscle their way into a bargaining position that always has been, and always will be the domain of SPF/Pfor. Why? Because we will fight for it to the end and also because SAS has publicly stated that they WILL NOT enter into any other collective bargaining agreement.
I urge all Pilotforbundet members to drop this strike. You will end up losing more than you could ever gain. Everybody else seems to realize this.
Regards,
Ramrise
PS The discusting thing is how a small group of pilots want to enrich themselves and have everybody else pay for it. They acccepted the deal in 1993, now they have to live with it. This situation has less to do with seniority lists than it does with subversiveness and greed.
I sense that you are at least somewhat sympathetic to the goals of Pilotforbundet. Let me just say that I am not.
But, you must acknowledge that Pilotforbundet, in this case, is the aggressive party. Regardless of what you or I think, they are trying to muscle their way into a bargaining position that always has been, and always will be the domain of SPF/Pfor. Why? Because we will fight for it to the end and also because SAS has publicly stated that they WILL NOT enter into any other collective bargaining agreement.
I urge all Pilotforbundet members to drop this strike. You will end up losing more than you could ever gain. Everybody else seems to realize this.
Regards,
Ramrise
PS The discusting thing is how a small group of pilots want to enrich themselves and have everybody else pay for it. They acccepted the deal in 1993, now they have to live with it. This situation has less to do with seniority lists than it does with subversiveness and greed.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 59Nord
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ramrise.
You must be joking!
They are asking for nothing else than fair treatment, equal pay, and the same chance for promotion.
-Is it not true that they have lower salary for 15 years now?
-Is it not true that several of them has been retired as FO´s with about half
the retirement pay?
-Is it not true that they get lower payment when sick then other SAS pilots?
-Is it not true that insurance and Loss of license give them far worse cover?
-Is it not true that BU pilots allready has a separate agreement with SAS?
-Is it not true that all SAS pilots hired before 1993 are promoted despite the need for it?
-Is it not true that the next one in line for promotion is the first Lin guy (1315)? (And taht will take years..)
-Is it not true that they are deprived the right to be FC on the CRJ´s?
-Is it true that Pfor choosed to raise the pay 750 for just captains?
How much do you need before you see what unfair treatment is?
Wake up!
The strike is perfectly legal. And it is for once in SAS for a juste cause. It is not even unique in SAS with a pilot group with a sepaarte agreement, even though it is not the way it should ba in a perfect world.
You on the other hand seems to be both ignorant and unfair in just every aspect here.
They are asking for nothing else than fair treatment, equal pay, and the same chance for promotion.
-Is it not true that they have lower salary for 15 years now?
-Is it not true that several of them has been retired as FO´s with about half
the retirement pay?
-Is it not true that they get lower payment when sick then other SAS pilots?
-Is it not true that insurance and Loss of license give them far worse cover?
-Is it not true that BU pilots allready has a separate agreement with SAS?
-Is it not true that all SAS pilots hired before 1993 are promoted despite the need for it?
-Is it not true that the next one in line for promotion is the first Lin guy (1315)? (And taht will take years..)
-Is it not true that they are deprived the right to be FC on the CRJ´s?
-Is it true that Pfor choosed to raise the pay 750 for just captains?
How much do you need before you see what unfair treatment is?
Wake up!
The strike is perfectly legal. And it is for once in SAS for a juste cause. It is not even unique in SAS with a pilot group with a sepaarte agreement, even though it is not the way it should ba in a perfect world.
You on the other hand seems to be both ignorant and unfair in just every aspect here.