SAS, career or stepping stone?
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The latest is that SAS may not be flying longhaul for more than another 10 years.
Also SAS has a huge debt that will maybe not make it possible to buy new aircraft to replace the aging fleet of MD80's..
Also SAS has a huge debt that will maybe not make it possible to buy new aircraft to replace the aging fleet of MD80's..
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Scandinavia
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iceshark...
Allow me to inform you that in the latest union agreement 7 new steps were added BELOW the old first step in the payscale. All new hires will be placed in the regional (turboprop) segment of SAS, and at the bottom of this new scale. This is also applicable for the 350-something guys (and girls) who were fired; their years of earlier employment with SAS is recognized, but on the new scale. I.o.w., they will, when (if) rehired be placed 7 steps below the step they were forced to leave on the payscale. Add to this 4 years+ of constant mismanagement, mergers/takeovers pissing everybody off, miserable rostering, etc...
Do you still think it's one the best bets in Europe? Oh well, it matters not. The company is more likely to fold than to hire new pilots sometime soon, anyway.
I think SAS is still one of the best bets for employment in Europe. Too bad they aren´t hiring...
Do you still think it's one the best bets in Europe? Oh well, it matters not. The company is more likely to fold than to hire new pilots sometime soon, anyway.
Join Date: May 2004
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Originally Posted by PropsAreForBoats
iceshark...
Allow me to inform you that in the latest union agreement 7 new steps were added BELOW the old first step in the payscale. All new hires will be placed in the regional (turboprop) segment of SAS, and at the bottom of this new scale. This is also applicable for the 350-something guys (and girls) who were fired; their years of earlier employment with SAS is recognized, but on the new scale. I.o.w., they will, when (if) rehired be placed 7 steps below the step they were forced to leave on the payscale.
Allow me to inform you that in the latest union agreement 7 new steps were added BELOW the old first step in the payscale. All new hires will be placed in the regional (turboprop) segment of SAS, and at the bottom of this new scale. This is also applicable for the 350-something guys (and girls) who were fired; their years of earlier employment with SAS is recognized, but on the new scale. I.o.w., they will, when (if) rehired be placed 7 steps below the step they were forced to leave on the payscale.
Thanks
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Until recently I had NO understanding what so ever for the SAS-guys...
But after flying with some of your old collegues, MO, (in FR) I very much understand your frustration.
BUT; as long as the scandinavian CAA's don't turn "liberal" on the 60-rule, the various SAS-companies will need to hire sometime in the next years-
with this in mind and looking towards WF; reducing the entry salaries in SAS is NOT a good solution of the company.
I personally would love to get a job back in Norway, flying turboprops instead of a big jet is not a problem, neither is paying the taxes there.
Starting at the bottom of a seniotiy list is not a problem.
What is a problem is taking a 40% paycut to come back. AND WF is being hard struck by this prolbem now. Finding a scandinavian pilot with more
than 800 hrs is NOT very difficult in todays world!! Or it should not be. But WF can't find anyone wanting to work for their T&C's, and that's bad for business!! SAS will be stuck in the same mud very soon.
Cut-backs were needed, and re organizing is still needed, but now it seems, mr Lindegaard is doing it in all the wrong places. And that is going to cost the company a lot in the future.
But then he will be gone from the company.
But after flying with some of your old collegues, MO, (in FR) I very much understand your frustration.
BUT; as long as the scandinavian CAA's don't turn "liberal" on the 60-rule, the various SAS-companies will need to hire sometime in the next years-
with this in mind and looking towards WF; reducing the entry salaries in SAS is NOT a good solution of the company.
I personally would love to get a job back in Norway, flying turboprops instead of a big jet is not a problem, neither is paying the taxes there.
Starting at the bottom of a seniotiy list is not a problem.
What is a problem is taking a 40% paycut to come back. AND WF is being hard struck by this prolbem now. Finding a scandinavian pilot with more
than 800 hrs is NOT very difficult in todays world!! Or it should not be. But WF can't find anyone wanting to work for their T&C's, and that's bad for business!! SAS will be stuck in the same mud very soon.
Cut-backs were needed, and re organizing is still needed, but now it seems, mr Lindegaard is doing it in all the wrong places. And that is going to cost the company a lot in the future.
But then he will be gone from the company.
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what's the point.....
Wow, that was a polite reply..... 
Ok, the UNIONS and the companies have agreed on 60 as the "end", and there are probaly guys above that age flying around in NAS and other companies. My position in this thread is NOT to argue wether or not a pilot can fly/should fly to a certain age.
My point of view was only that in SAS, pilots retire at latest 60 years of age, and that there most likely is more than ONE pilot approaching this age.
A pilot leaving a position in any company means one of two things; either replace him with a new guy, or downsize the company.
Captaink, I didn't think you could miss the point in this argument by such a big margin.
If I make "poo-poo's" in my thread, sure, let me know! But don't start bashing with silly language.
Uansett hva ditt ordforråd er, jeg misliker å få slengt en "hva FAEN mener du med det" etter meg.
Is that clear for people??
Ok, the UNIONS and the companies have agreed on 60 as the "end", and there are probaly guys above that age flying around in NAS and other companies. My position in this thread is NOT to argue wether or not a pilot can fly/should fly to a certain age.
My point of view was only that in SAS, pilots retire at latest 60 years of age, and that there most likely is more than ONE pilot approaching this age.
A pilot leaving a position in any company means one of two things; either replace him with a new guy, or downsize the company.
Captaink, I didn't think you could miss the point in this argument by such a big margin.
If I make "poo-poo's" in my thread, sure, let me know! But don't start bashing with silly language.
Uansett hva ditt ordforråd er, jeg misliker å få slengt en "hva FAEN mener du med det" etter meg.
Is that clear for people??
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Hello BA poor
You make valid points about SAS and future recruitment, at the moment the T&C SAS can offer newhires (and rehires) are simply hopelessly unattractive. So if they plan a future for this airline, this must be adressed soon. However, you have missed that pilots are unfortunately allowed to fly until age 65 in SAS, at least until further.
You make valid points about SAS and future recruitment, at the moment the T&C SAS can offer newhires (and rehires) are simply hopelessly unattractive. So if they plan a future for this airline, this must be adressed soon. However, you have missed that pilots are unfortunately allowed to fly until age 65 in SAS, at least until further.
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Totally agree with you BAP that the T&C in Scandi are low if you look at what we make down in Europe, but still would like to hear a figure!
ppjn.com is quite correct with regards to the most carriers, but I assume for SAS it mentions the old terms. Is it such a secret what the new salary is?
ppjn.com is quite correct with regards to the most carriers, but I assume for SAS it mentions the old terms. Is it such a secret what the new salary is?
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Missing the piont...
Fair deal: I din't know SAS had guys flying till 65, the x-sas guys I fly with left at 60, and said nothing about people flying till 65.
But increasing the cut-of age only delays the problem for SAS, and any other operator doing the same thing. The guys born 1945-50 will sooner or later have to stop flying commercially, and as I undestand, they are many!
My original point stands the same; SAS WILL stuggle to find the pilots they want/need.
But increasing the cut-of age only delays the problem for SAS, and any other operator doing the same thing. The guys born 1945-50 will sooner or later have to stop flying commercially, and as I undestand, they are many!
My original point stands the same; SAS WILL stuggle to find the pilots they want/need.
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Someone mentioned that SAS is slow to react, but listening to other comments it may be said for the pilots as well. There IS a career in aviation but just like any other career today you got to be prepare to risk a bit. Those who left SAS for asia carriers in 2000 were probably considered mad, and they could have lost a lot. In this business it's "who dares wins" (yes not that SAS I know 
. There are always options, they are very rarely easy choices but that's what life is made of....isn't it.
As for the reduction in entry level pay.....well is it effecting anyone? And what relevance does it have. It still comes down to market forces, if you offer crap T&C you won't get the pilots you want. So wait until SAS is actually recruiting before discussing entry salary.
Having said that, I do feel for all you guys beeing trapped in the spiral of negative motivation. Hold your heads high!
Ok that's my to cents
. There are always options, they are very rarely easy choices but that's what life is made of....isn't it.As for the reduction in entry level pay.....well is it effecting anyone? And what relevance does it have. It still comes down to market forces, if you offer crap T&C you won't get the pilots you want. So wait until SAS is actually recruiting before discussing entry salary.
Having said that, I do feel for all you guys beeing trapped in the spiral of negative motivation. Hold your heads high!
Ok that's my to cents
