Because it works, it's available, and it's probably the best of the 3 realistic options available.

Id have thought T-50 was a lot of overkill in performance.
Would not the M-346 be more realistic?

Knowing the UK, we'll probably end up with the M345!

Not sure I'd call it overkill. An actual radar and datalink are ideal in a tactical trainer, but even more so if you were to use the same fleet of aircraft for your frontline support (red air, DACT, ADEX etc). Operating something like the TA-50 would not only provide the UK with a great trainer that has performance to read across to frontline platforms, it would also be capable of providing the UK with credible red air.

Of course, capability costs money...

It should also be capable of being used in an operational front line capability. Although that would probably cost more, so it won't happen.

No it shouldn't . They need an advanced trainer.

I’ll maintain my position that if they want an advanced trainer with representative handling and kinematics then it’s a simple field to choose from. If not it widens a little more perhaps into the ethereal space if time doesn’t matter.


The question should be that of how do they wish to offer something different, what would the unique selling point be that’s the differentiator? The answer by the way isn’t that you get the CFS tick 🙄🙄🙄🙄

KAI appear to have gotten off the perch, it will be interesting to see who gets their elbow right in terms of messaging and narrative.

So, BAe's bid to MOD for Hawk T.2 replacement would be a UK built T-7...?

https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/b...t7-trainer-raf

I thought Ukraine had taught us the folly of buying anything US any more?

So what "folly" would that be?

The Yanks make the best and most prolific kit there is.

Does that include Boeing?

With the advent of AI I wonder who will be the first to have a fully autonomous display team?

Already exists, this company have done it with their 'Red Arrows' drone light show.
https://www.droneswarm.co.uk/

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....c94699e663.jpg

Can't they put the wings on straight?

Lets hope the put a UK seat in it, the US option seems to have had suffered from some qualification ‘issues’.

That's simply an homage to BAe build standards! ;)

BAE to get the trainer contract, Leonardo to get the medium helicopter one and everyone is happy?

Pity the government has declared that we can't defend ourselves due to successive defence cuts.

And Aeralis volley back…….

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/aera...shire-jet-hub/

Aeralis, GMB pact aims to build Ayrshire jet hub

Cracks me up that they can con these journalists with the start of the first sentence in that article.......

"British aircraft manufacturer Aeralis has signed a cooperation agreement with........"

How can you be referred to as a manufacturer, when you have never manufactured anything yet..... :ugh:

T-7 is flying now; how long would it take for Aeralis to even get airborne if they started building it right this minute?

IOC for the USAF has slipped to 2028, mainly due to massive supply chain problems. When they are solved priority will go to trying to catch up on the existing USAF order for 350 which will mx out the supply chain even further.

That’s before you look at any changes required for UK certification and service needs. 7-10 years?

Aeralis
 

I see they’re back to the old jet design again. The wings appear to be halfway between low wing and high wing. It looks like a stubbier combination of Alphajet and M346.

So, basically, they still have absolutely no idea what their final design will be. They are just certain that they want to build an aircraft.

I had expected BAE to buy the concept and come up with a proposal in the next few years. But BAE have thrown their hat in the ring with Boeing and Saab. That for me is basically the final nail in the coffin of the Aeralis concept.

BV

BAe/Boeing/SAAB T-7A RedHawks would appear to be the best option. I can't see whatever Aerolas dream up next being a worthwhile contender.

As I said before, looks more like the SAAB J 29.

What they have now still looks pretty good to me....

Just buy the 346. Its not imaginary or super expensive and gold plated. The 346 is also available now...

And the RAFAT should retire with the Hawk...

NO WAY JOSÉ!!

Seriously consider the UK's finances.
And what effect do they really have on recruitment.
Perhaps if the saved money was given as bonuses it might help retention!

Presumably the RAFAT have a negative impact on female recruitment to the RAF?

Or has their reputation been restored.

Have to sadly agree with that.
The Reds were fantastic for the RAF of the 60's, 70's & 80's, era but seem completely at odds with the massively reduced size (and contractorised) RAF of the 2020's and onwards (even more so as we move into ever more UAV use)

I can't see ANY politician agreeing to close down the Reds - they ARE the RAF to 95% of UK voters

Tho maybe move them to the BBF?

A replacement Red Arrows / AJT aircraft requires first deliveries around 2929. After being ‘forced’ into a political Hawk T2 solution in 2002 there will almost certainly be a competition this time around. This has to be launched next year. The competition will be for a training solution and will specify that contenders must be low risk, in production and certifiable in the UK. This will exclude development and ‘paper’ aircraft.

The only 3 viable contenders are the BAES / Boeing /SAAB T7, the Leonardo 346 and the KAI T50. Realistically looking at UK content and regulations the competition will be between the T7 and the 346 Block20. Either will make an excellent AJT.

2029!

Maybe given rhe comment in post #191 above (re UAVs) that will cease to be the case? - among the young anyway.

L-39 not a viable contender?

Expatrick
 

If the plan was to go down the low performance route then PC21 would probably be a better option than L39.

If we still view ourselves as a nation that wants a first rate trainer aircraft and Air Force then T7 or T50 should be the best options. M346 is already a little legacy and I have doubts about Leonardo’s ability to produce and support a decent sized fleet. I also worry about the fuel load of the M346 having fought them and seen how quickly they run out of fuel.

BV

Following an agreement with the Italian Air Force in August 2025, the U.S. Air Force is now training ten of its student pilots at the International Flight Training School (IFST), Decimomannu Air Base, Italy. The two services have partnered to execute an undergraduate flying training program Small Group Tryout, which will test modernized syllabi and streamlined training timelines with the goal of reducing pilot certification to less than one year.

As part of the “Concept of Operations (CONOPS) for Flight Training of the USAF Military Personnel in Italy,” the IFTS was chosen for its proven excellence and ability to offer an innovative and challenging training program, with the Leonardo T-346A jet trainer defined as a further strength behind this agreement

Interested in your skepticism about Leonardo BV. And if we built it under license would that be a better option?
If we got either of the supersonic options they would ( presumably) be much more expensive to buy/operate. So either a smaller fleet or taking money from elsewhere... It would also be a longer wait to get the T-7.

But its design and developement dates back to 1996; nearly 30 years..

Better not buy F-35, Typhoon, Wedgetail, Poseidon then!