Do what we did before the Arrows - a squadron display team.

Have you any idea how busy the squadrons are? Easy in the 50s when there were scores of them.

The guys at Brough had fitted a full-width working F35-style display to the demonstrators but I don't think they had the associated sensors. I wonder if lack of company investment cooled the MoD interest, but they didn't have the will or funds, anyhow.

The great John Farley wrote an interesting critique on here as to why the Hawk (and especially the wing) was not suitable for a 21st Century trainer. The proposed Advanced Hawk for India may have addressed some of those issues, but it’s a dead duck.

The T-7 might be an option, but has its own woes. The fact the M346 has its origins in a joint project with Russia back in the day shouldn’t count against it. It’s in-service and seems to be quite liked by it’s users.

Outsource to the Chinese, put the red in red arrows.

If you are trying to recruit the modern Yoof,
Just make it a VR Flying Display App on your Mobile.

Dont laugh, West Coast I was impressed with seeing the then new UAEAF L-15 Falcon perform at Dubai Air Show 2023 (my pics below)

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....a0bbda0cab.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....ae4e63f993.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....ed0f63c642.jpg

At Dubai Air show 2021, (first proper air show head on the heels of the pandemic), saw the Jl-15 for the first time as China keen to export it.

cheers

I thought we needed 9 aircraft for a display team, like the French or Italians?

It's Italian in origin.; Franco Bonazzi and Ricardo Durione who used to display every Farnborough Airshow must have had a hand developing it; they looped and rolled the PD 808 bizjet.

Top West 50,

.-- or maybe even 22 ? !!

22 in the case of the Black Arrows.

Once, and then with aircraft and pilots from other squadrons.

Firebirds 'Twinkle Roll'
 

I suspect there were all sorts of serviceability issues, but I do remember a Firebirds formation 'twinkle roll' that looked very good to a young Air Cadet at the time.

Mind you the ATC could rise to occasions if required, and did so at a Swanton Morley Aero club display in the 60's.
An unlikely combination of two Cadet MK3 and a Slingsby Swallow.
The Mk3's were aero towed into position by a couple of Tiger Moths and the Swallow was winch launched up between them on the run in.
No practice or briefing other than the winch driver was instructed by a pye radio in the cab.
No one had realised that the radio was inaudible with the winch engine running and therefore the lone staff cadet had to 'wing it' so to speak and give it full chat when it looked right.
The Mk3's/ Tigers hove into sight and then the Swallow was launched through the gap and slightly behind at which point the Tigers broke off and the Swallow slipped into the lead (no doubt with suitable use of the air brakes). This unusual formation then proceeded to do a couple of descending formation turns over the field and then broke with the Swallow giving a fly past. The fretwork fighters were stars of the day, and had included Ladley and King who no doubt wished they still had their Tempests, Hurricanes, and Spitfires to play with. The lone winching staff cadet in true ATC tradition was of course forgotten and had to walk back to the hangar. In fact later in the week he was rewarded by being sent off in the Swallow as a treat, and a wonderful treat it was !!!

One Farnborough, there was a display consisting of a motor glider towing a sailplane. The motor glider had a retractable towline and displayed in synchro.
The sailplane pilot was the late Chis Rollings who started as a staff cadet with 613 (Halton) GS and became a national coach with the BGA.
He and I were on the same ATC Squadron (2204 Chesham) and I was a minor staff cadet alongside him.
He was the second ever instructor to be awarded 'B' Cat wings while still a cadet.

These are days of restricted budgets, Sir. We can't afford nine, prepare to be thrilled by the Inthered Arrow. Singular.

I recall rather a surprising display at an RAF Air Show once - 4 Chipmunks of East Midlands University Air Squadron flew a superb synchronised formation display. It wasn't close formation, but a very cleverly synchronised series of manoeuvres. It was a brilliantly novel display!

Snowbirds, Blue Angels, Thunderbirds, Skyblazers all used 4 aircraft as did the 'original' Linton Blades and the Red Pelicans.(who I saw practicing at Little Rissington in 1962).

Two days ago you wanted 22. Now 4 will suffice?

Surely, in terms of inspiring young people to join the RAF, even just one, doing spectacular things, regularly, across the Country would be enough to generate a "I want to do that"?

I thought both the Blue Angels and Thunderbirds used 6 aircraft in their displays?

And it doesn’t need to be shiny and fast, tbh what I personally thought was the best display I saw at Riat last year was the Italian Spartan.

Of course what is needed are some REAL machines that Cadets can actually get to fly and go solo in.
Oh I forgot we used to do that not so long ago before the 'hands on experience' was replaced by sitting in a plastic bath tub looking at a screen.
Nothing to stop us going back to something that worked assuming those in charge actually knew what they were doing. (may be a problem there)
We need the AIR back into Cadets, and a new fleet of MK3's with the 60 mins to solo provision.
I would accept changing the 'wellies' for a more suitable footwear, and we could up grade the NAAFI pies to make then into a combi adaptation of a Cornish Pasty with meat and potato at one end and jam at the other. There we are all sorted, and could be another World first for the Cadets. An upgrade to winching could be reusable
Jetex packs to bring us up to date. What a combination basic training to spaceflight in one economic system.

……and the MACAWs at Manby, 4 JP 4s

Just saw a programme on Ch 5 about Longleat; it showed a display by a pair of Grob 109b's previously known as 'Vigilants' in the Air Cadets but literally 'given away' or destroyed.

The display pair featured on the show weren't ex-Vigilants. They were imported from the French and Swiss registers.

So what; they were still G109b's and they did quite a good display from what I saw, now add a couple more aircraft or even more......

While the skill and training factors can be replicated in grobs and the like the general public want noise and speed , and that the peoblem with replacing the ageing hawks although the French team must be pretty ancient too.

I also wonder how welcome the USAF/USN teams might be in Europe , hopefully the rudeness and disparaging remarks about fellow NATO allies wont impact them displaying over hear.

Can Uk afford the Reds is a reallytricky question, I for one would be very sad if they were closed down but perhaps Government might be swayed by their advertising appeal to youngsters

Bring back the Grasshopper

Hawk planned out of service dates.

• Hawk T1 – 2030
• Hawk T2 – 2040

full list of types, see

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/raf-...ates-revealed/

Putting the BASIC back into basic training
 

Grasshopper (Primary trainer) plus a jet pack, the ultimate (one stop shop) for ist solo to spaceman,
Grasshopper may need a windscreen, but what a ride, and affordable to boot.

Hm Grasshopper.+ jet pack.
Wooden frame with doped fabric lifting surfaces.
Might there not be a risk of it catching fire?
Needs to be constructed with a different type of material and unlikely to pass MAA requirements.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....79fed9f38b.png
What could possibly go wrong?

modern materials
 

Not a problem with tubular metal construction and flame resistant covering. Come along Chev dont be a spoil sport you know it would be a world beater, and lots of fun. Surely you remember when Cadets had fun.

In a completely unsurprising change of narrative the latest from Aeralis at their industrialisation event demonstrates the desperation:

• New position is all MOD has to do is sign, commit to an order and the terrorist sponsoring Qataris will pay all the development costs and MOD can pay back later. Shades of the 2003-2004 period again.
• Now stating 42 months (from today) to enable a LRIP of 4 aircraft to enable a subsequent 2-year test campaign. Gosh, the BAE playbook and I’m sure it’ll go on rails 🫣
• Vehemently believe they can win in Japan and can develop a carrier capable version with relative ease (good luck with that).
• Looking at an all new small form factor engine for the twin-variant as the F124 fan diameter is too large.

" the terrorist sponsoring Qataris "

Shirley you mean "Britain's long standing ally"? (and major investor)

I refer the honourable gentleman to my earlier post. Nasty little former protectorate…….

Why jets at all ?

Why not purchase 15 x Pilatus PC21's ? (some for use and some for storage/replacements)

and a proper support contract including spare parts..................

Arc

You’ve seen the Roulettes display, right? And im
sure the Patrulla Aguila PC-21 display will be just the same. I’m all for binning them……

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar%...gdom_relations


But beloved by politicians of all parties, the military establishment & UK business it seems................. In March 2013, Prince Charles and his wife the Duchess of Cornwall, arrived in Qatar for a state visit. On 20 September 2019, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson hosted Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani at the Downing Street. Johnson pressed over the fact that the UK’s relation with Qatar is going from “strength to strength”. On 24 May 2022, Sheikh Tamim met with Prime Minister Boris Johnson to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the UK-Qatar bilateral relations in London.

During the state visit of the Amir of Qatar to the United Kingdom in December 2024, the UK and Qatar signed agreements to enhance their defence cooperation. The agreements included expanding collaboration within the joint UK-Qatar Typhoon and Hawk squadrons and knowledge-sharing between the UK Royal Military Police and Qatar’s Amiri Guard Close Protection UnitOn 20 February 2023, the Qatari Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Affairs Minister Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani and the British Foreign Secretary James Cleverly held the first annual Strategic Dialogue in London. On 4 December 2024, the two countries announced a new Climate Technology Partnership during Amir of Qatar, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani, State Visit to the UK where he met King Charles III and Prime Minister Keir Starmer. Qatar confirmed an initial investment of £1 billion.

Just curious.
Why do you hate Aeralis so much...?