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America's Pete Hesgeth stated that they "Sank an Iranian warship by torpedo from a US sub in international waters, the first warship sunk by torp since WW2"
Ignoring the fact the WW2 claim is wrong (unless the statement was meant to include `from a US sub`) is that legal? Then again is anything in this war legal? |
Originally Posted by DogTailRed2
(Post 12046735)
America's Pete Hesgeth stated that they "Sank an Iranian warship by torpedo from a US sub in international waters, the first warship sunk by torp since WW2"
Ignoring the fact the WW2 claim is wrong (unless the statement was meant to include `from a US sub`) is that legal? Then again is anything in this war legal? |
Originally Posted by DogTailRed2
(Post 12046735)
America's Pete Hesgeth stated that they "Sank an Iranian warship by torpedo from a US sub in international waters, the first warship sunk by torp since WW2"
Ignoring the fact the WW2 claim is wrong (unless the statement was meant to include `from a US sub`) is that legal? 2. December 9, 1971, the Pakistani submarine PNS Hangor sank the Indian frigate INS Khukri (F149). (Maybe he meant by a US sub?) EDIT: I see that CAEBr and I posted at about the same time... |
Chairman JCS made the correct statement regarding the first sinking by a USN submarine since WWII.
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US DOW Briefing at Pentagon 4 Mar 26 0800 ET
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Salute!
Well, Pontius and others, we now get to see how good the new plane's computed delivery systems work with those rusty old dumb bombs. The last, mostly uncontested air bombing fracas of my generation was Vietnam in the south and most of Laos away from The Trail. The A-7D and USN A-7 E "scored" CEP by the FAC's and grunts was about 15 meters for the MK series of GP bombs (see various Corona Harvest docs). I would bet we see about the same now, depending on thier release altitudes. Problem is aiming with the human eye. If the "system" and fin assemblies on the bombs have about a 6 mil dispersion,then add that to your Mk 1 eyeball. Gums sends... |
BBC reporting that HMS Dragon will not sail for the Eastern Mediterranean until "sometime next week"...
Add on a 7 day transit, and that means it won't be on task for another 11+ days.... By which time numerous assets from various other European countries will have been on scene for days. A case of too little too late. I can't help but wonder, why bother? Just posturing and virtue signalling from Starmer? |
Originally Posted by Biggus
(Post 12046774)
.......... I can't help but wonder, why bother? Just posturing and virtue signalling from Starmer?
And genuine apologies to all those Brits currently serving, or who have served, and particularly those who have done so much on active service over the years - it's just my cynicism re those "in charge" and the general trajectory in the UK since 1990 really after having endured many pointless LTC rounds........... |
Originally Posted by Biggus
(Post 12046774)
BBC reporting that HMS Dragon will not sail for the Eastern Mediterranean until "sometime next week"...
Add on a 7 day transit, and that means it won't be on task for another 11+ days.... By which time numerous assets from various other European countries will have been on scene for days. A case of too little too late. I can't help but wonder, why bother? Just posturing and virtue signalling from Starmer? |
How essential is it? We have other assets in the neighbourhood. We, as in the UK, have nothing capable of intercepting an IRBM if they throw one at Akrotiri. Not sure whether the Cypriot NG BARAK-MX system is the ER version with an IRBM capability. The French and Greek FDI frigates carry Aster 15/30 and can intercept short and medium range IRBM So, until Dragon arrives, we will depend on them. Of course the USS Ford CSG is in the area and could be located to take out any incoming. |
Originally Posted by ORAC
(Post 12046798)
Define we……
We, as in the UK, have nothing capable of intercepting an IRBM if they throw one at Akrotiri. Most of the ones from back then have either gotten improved range or have been superseded by more capable ballistic missiles. In our meetings, any time Cyprus got raised the usual Greek/Turk bun tossing event would occur. I wonder if NATO has gotten past that in the intervening decades. EDIT: I did a quick check, looks like a lot of time/effort/money went into that program. The Lisbon Summit seems to have been a major turning point in upgrading the holistic posture. |
For those with an interest in LNG tanker vessels, and how vulnerable they might be, there are reports that a Russian one is on fire to the east of Malta, with reports of explosions, most curious
https://gcaptain.com/russian-lng-car...craft-circles/ |
From petit plateau's link:
The Arctic Metagaz is among roughly a dozen vessels used to transport sanctioned LNG from Russia’s Arctic LNG 2 facility to buyers at China’s Beihai Terminal. These vessels have drawn increased scrutiny amid Western sanctions targeting Russia’s energy exports. Ukraine has previously demonstrated an ability to strike Russian naval and logistics assets far beyond the Black Sea. Ukrainian intelligence and special operations units have claimed responsibility for sabotage and explosive attacks against Russian-linked vessels and infrastructure in European waters. The first confirmed Ukrainian attacks on a vessel in the Mediterranean occurred just over two months ago when the Qendil, an Omani-flagged “shadow fleet” tanker was struck between Crete and Malta. |
Is there any information circulating on the circumstances of the sinking of the Iranian warship i.e. was it instructed to sail to a particular port & surrender (assuming it was being shadowed by more than the sub)? If not it seems a bit unsporting if the sub just let rip w/o giving them a chance to throw in the towel.
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Originally Posted by RAFEngO74to09
(Post 12046745)
Chairman JCS made the correct statement regarding the first sinking by a USN submarine since WWII.
in fact, yesterday, in the Indian Ocean (and we’ll play it on the screen there), an American submarine sunk an Iranian warship that thought it was safe in international waters. Instead it was sunk by a torpedo. Quiet death. The first sinking of an enemy ship by a torpedo since World War Two. For some additional context, the U.S. has conducted numerous SINKEX operations since WW2, usually sinking old decommissioned warships with submarine-launched torpedos. |
As I understand the details, that Iranian warship was sunk near Sri Lanka.
By Yousef Saba, Jonathan Saul and Anna Hirtenstein March 4 (Reuters) - The U.S.–Iran war widened on Wednesday after a U.S. strike hit an Iranian warship off Sri Lanka, deepening a crisis that has paralysed shipping through the Strait of Hormuz for a fifth day and choked off vital Middle East oil and gas flows. The U.S. submarine strike on the Iranian vessel came as U.S. President Donald Trump pledged to provide insurance and navy escorts to ships exporting oil and gas from the Middle East in a bid to contain soaring energy prices. {Hormuz Issues} At least 200 ships, including oil and liquefied natural gas tankers as well as cargo ships, remained at anchor in open waters off the coast of major Gulf producers including Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Qatar, according to Reuters estimates based on ship-tracking data from the MarineTraffic platform. The Maltese-flagged container ship Safeen Prestige was also damaged by a projectile as it sailed toward the northern end of the Strait of Hormuz earlier, prompting the crew to abandon ship, shipping sources said. Qatar will fully shut down gas liquefaction on Wednesday and won't return to normal production and exports for at least a month, two sources familiar with the matter told Reuters. Gas giant QatarEnergy declared force majeure on shipments of LNG after attacks on its production facilities. Iraq cut its oil production as the country ran out of storage, unable to load it in tankers. Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Kuwait were also struggling to load oil but it was not yet clear if they cut output. (More economic details at the spoiler)
Spoiler
Sri Lanka’s Foreign Minister Vijitha Herath told Parliament that its navy received information that the IRIS Dena, with 180 people on board, was in distress and sinking. The island nation sent ships and planes on a rescue mission, he said. Navy spokesman Commander Buddhika Sampath said by the time navy ships reached the location, there was no sign of the ship in distress and “there were only some oil patches and life rafts. We found people floating on the water.”
Originally Posted by dead_pan
(Post 12046827)
If not it seems a bit unsporting if the sub just let rip w/o giving them a chance to throw in the towel.
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Originally Posted by dead_pan
(Post 12046827)
"it seems a bit unsporting if the sub just let rip w/o giving them a chance to throw in the towel."
Interestingly the ship was hit at the stern. Acoustic torp hit the screws perhaps? Hegseth: U.S. sank Iranian ship with a torpedo |
Originally Posted by BFSGrad
(Post 12046828)
Given Hegseth’s imprecise language that was read from prepared remarks, we are left to decide whether he meant any nation’s torpedo or an American torpedo.
MAGA is the antithesis of this - the single, mind blocking focus on self. "It is not what you think, it is how you think." Philip Tetlock nn |
Did Iran warn before firing missiles at its friendly neighbours?
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While all this is ongoing one has to wonder what is happening in Iran now the head has been cut off.
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Originally Posted by DogTailRed2
(Post 12046845)
And risk the sub and it's crew? I'm all for firing first.
Interestingly the ship was hit at the stern. Acoustic torp hit the screws perhaps? Hegseth: U.S. sank Iranian ship with a torpedo |
Originally Posted by DogTailRed2
(Post 12046852)
While all this is ongoing one has to wonder what is happening in Iran now the head has been cut off.
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Originally Posted by dead_pan
(Post 12046862)
Not only that, with no real prospect of any leadership given Israel's intent to kill any replacements. What is their goal hegoaI wonder - capitulation, a failed state?
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Originally Posted by Falck
(Post 12045381)
The presidential jet B767 of Netanyahu is evacuated to Berlin where it is parked.
Germany is one of the main founders of the ICC in The Hague. Netanyahu has an arrest warrent against him by the ICC. Will there be a risk to put a chain on this Jet? Falck |
Originally Posted by ORAC
(Post 12046558)
B-2s active again over Iran last night.
No sign of any tankers launching from the Azores so I wonder if they are now active out of Diego Garcia after Starmer’s U-turn. |
Being “unsporting” is entirely the point.
Originally Posted by dead_pan
(Post 12046827)
Is there any information circulating on the circumstances of the sinking of the Iranian warship i.e. was it instructed to sail to a particular port & surrender (assuming it was being shadowed by more than the sub)? If not it seems a bit unsporting if the sub just let rip w/o giving them a chance to throw in the towel.
|
Originally Posted by Geriaviator
(Post 12046851)
Did Iran warn before firing missiles at its friendly neighbours?
Originally Posted by DogTailRed2
(Post 12046864)
A void to be filled by the faction with the most guns?
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Iranian Warship sunk by torpedo between Sri Lanka and Diego Garcia.
It could have caused considerable damage to Diego Garcia if that was the intent. |
US sub has sunk an Iranian war ship...
IRIS Dena.(Destroyer type class). Hegseth confirms sinking of Iranian warship | CNN Politics https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....b570d3ce09.jpg Hegseth is saying the ship sunk was the Shaid Soleimani. Well, it looks like a completely different type of ship than above. From the video footage as now going around the world, it does look like Dena. I'll try and post a Soleimani.pic. EDIT: Reports it was hit off Sri Lanka as reports are saying that Sri Lanka rescue services were involved. |
Originally Posted by Geriaviator
(Post 12046851)
Did Iran warn before firing missiles at its friendly neighbours?
|
Originally Posted by DogTailRed2
(Post 12046845)
And risk the sub and it's crew? I'm all for firing first.
Interestingly the ship was hit at the stern. Acoustic torp hit the screws perhaps? Hegseth: U.S. sank Iranian ship with a torpedo For albatross: thanks for that vid. Interesting summary of that class of ship. |
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If you're wondering what ever happened to "Bagdad Bob" - apparently he's now working for Iranian propaganda...
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Originally Posted by Bfah
(Post 12046918)
From the video footage as now going around the world, it does look like Dena.
Shaid Soleimani is a cool looking ship, and notice the lovely helicopter on the flight deck! :ok: |
Slideshow:
U.S. Central Command (CENTCOM) has published stills from today’s targeting of the IRIS Shahid Sayyad Shirazi, a Soleimani-class corvette with Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps Navy (IRGCN), off the coast of Bandar Abbas in the Strait of Hormuz. CENTCOM states that more than 20 ships with the IRGCN and Iranian Navy have been targeted and sunk since the start of Operation Epic Fury. |
Interesting if true...
EXCLUSIVE: Kurdish forces in Iraq have launched a ground military offensive into Iran against the Islamic regime, an Iranian Kurdish official tells @i24NEWS_EN . |
Originally Posted by BFSGrad
(Post 12046828)
This is the transcript from the video I watched:
Given Hegseth’s imprecise language that was read from prepared remarks, we are left to decide whether he meant any nation’s torpedo or an American torpedo. For some additional context, the U.S. has conducted numerous SINKEX operations since WW2, usually sinking old decommissioned warships with submarine-launched torpedos. The Falklands had its shares of horrific moments, and did make a point about the issues of having iron bombs, aluminium superstructure and drivers of sleds with an abundance of testosterone doing some serious harm to the greatest fleet in Portsmouth in 1982. (once upon a time, it was the best fleet north west of Dunkirk... it was once, and it was a long time ago). |
Interesting and ironic in equal measure, the reason behind Dena's presence in the Indian Ocean; and it's got nothing to do with escaping from the Gulf.
In February, the Indian Navy conducted an International Fleet Review, an exercise/meet to foster goodwill and cooperation between international navies. Main participant, obviously, India, but representative ships and aircraft from over a dozen countries. Some examples; USS Pinkney (USA), RFS Marshall Shposhnikov (Russia), ROKS Gang Gamchan (S Korea) and of course IRIS Dena. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intern...t_Review_2026# Checkout the fleet photo; around 40 ships in 7 columns led by INS Vikrant. My 2 cents on the sportsmanship of its sinking? War or SMO, USA and Israel are shooting at anything Iranian. Iran is shooting at Israeli and US assets, and anything else that isn't openly hostile to them. The Dena is armed with SAMS, Anti-Ship Missiles and torpedoes, and it's in the same ocean as Diego Garcia and a USN carrier group. Not to sink it would be criminally irresponsible. |
Originally Posted by tdracer
(Post 12046956)
Interesting if true...
. Thousands of Kurdish fighters based in Iraq have launched a ground offensive into western Iran, opening a new front in the rapidly escalating conflict following the reported killing of Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. According to i24NEWS, an official from the Coalition of Political Forces of Iranian Kurdistan (CPFIK) confirmed that Kurdish armed groups began coordinated military movements shortly after midnight on Monday, March 2. The ground military movements by Kurdish forces against Iran have already started since the midnight on March 2,” the CPFIK official told the outlet. The official said fighters affiliated with the Kurdistan Free Life Party (PJAK) had already moved into combat positions inside Iranian territory. Thousands of Kurdish fighters are reportedly deployed deep within the Zagros mountain range, particularly around the southern mountains of Mariwan in western Iran. According to the CPFIK official, Iranian forces evacuated the border city of Mariwan on March 3 and began establishing defensive positions in and around the area. Mariwan, located near the Iraq-Iran border, has historically been a flashpoint between Iranian security forces and Kurdish insurgent groups. The official said PJAK fighters have now taken up positions around the mountainous terrain south of the city. PJAK operates two-armed wings — the YRK (Protection Units of Eastern Kurdistan) and the HPJ (Women’s Protection Forces). The official described these units as modeled after Kurdish formations operating in Syria. From the same article The unfolding Kurdish offensive comes as the Trump administration has reportedly been engaging with Iranian opposition groups and Kurdish leaders in Iraq. According to CNN, citing multiple people familiar with the plan, the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) is working to provide weapons to Kurdish forces in an effort to foment a popular uprising in Iran. The administration has been in active discussions with Iranian opposition groups and Kurdish leaders in Iraq about providing military support, sources told CNN. Iranian Kurdish armed groups operate primarily in Iraq’s Kurdistan region along the border. Several have issued public statements since the conflict began, urging Iranian military personnel to defect. On Tuesday, Iran’s IRGC said it targeted Kurdish forces with dozens of drones. CNN also reported that President Donald Trump spoke with Mustafa Hijri, president of the Democratic Party of Iranian Kurdistan (KDPI), according to a senior Iranian Kurdish official. The KDPI was among the groups targeted by the IRGC. Iranian Kurdish opposition forces are expected to participate in a broader ground operation in western Iran in the coming days, a senior Kurdish official told CNN. “We believe we have a big chance now,” the source said, adding that militias expect U.S. and Israeli support. Trump also reportedly spoke with Iraqi Kurdish leaders on Sunday regarding U.S. military operations in Iran and coordination moving forward, according to two U.S. officials and another source familiar with the discussions. Any effort to arm Iranian Kurdish groups would require support from Iraqi Kurdish authorities to allow weapons transit and to use Iraqi Kurdistan as a staging ground. |
Originally Posted by DuncanDoenitz
(Post 12046961)
Not to sink it would be criminally irresponsible.
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