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fdr 3rd March 2026 17:51


Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 (Post 12046236)
For sure.
My confidence in the competence of the Gulf nations' military is very low, however, that's based on my experiences from a couple of decades ago, so my view may be well out of date.

How is this any different from the 8 year period in the 80's where the Iraq-Iran War impacted oil tanker flow, and (my memory is hazy) about 40 tankers were taken out.
What makes today's risks heavier? (Or is it not a bigger risk, and we too soon forget?)

Yup, its deja vu all over again...

We rigged a VLCC under tow travelling east along the iron highway back in the early 80's, and approaching from the bow, there was a small back hole in the middle of the NO SMOKING "O" (the second one...). On passing behind, there was more or less nothing remaining of the after sections of the superstructure, it was a smOking ruin. The Iraqi's and Iranians certainly changed the opinion of some of that crew, and yet, the highway had no shortage of VLCC's plying their trade.

Our economies rely on energy supplies, but over time, since the early 70's we have become more adept to reacting to the volatility of the supply chain. We have also become more reactive in doing something loud about it, but really, it was ever thus, (ask Stalin about the Caucuses and Hitler's summer vacation, '41).

Disrupting the flow of oil out of the gulf becomes an own goal, Xi will not be happy with choking off his energy source, and as Iran has electronic bits and stuff to support their projected power, and their defence from rowdy stuff inbound, upsetting the customer is probably not a brilliant tactic.

petit plateau 3rd March 2026 18:31


Originally Posted by AR1 (Post 12046207)
The reports I've found regarding this asset come from Feb 2026, just a few weeks prior to the current ops. Assumption that this is not operational or at least not integrated into defences. Might the delivery or proposed delivery of the system hastened action in this case?

Stuff was apparently moving from China to Iran in mid-2025, though differing opinions on how true and what etc

https://raksha-anirveda.com/china-mo...o-iran-reports
https://www.news.com.au/world/middle...ran/news-story
https://www.france24.com/en/middle-e...racking-images

(I seem to remember China also moved some SAM & radar systems to Serbia by air at about the same time so there may have been multiple things going on)

petit plateau 3rd March 2026 18:39


Originally Posted by Mr Mac (Post 12046265)
Lonewolf 50
My cousin served on tankers during that period, and did many transits, and indeed was on one of the ones shot up. They used to have to wait off Muscat to get special insurance clearance, and had a limited time in the Gulf while that cover was in place. He said the missiles were less of an issue than being strafed, though given the clear lack of an Iranian Air Force now that should not be an issue, though missile guidance and indeed Drones have all changed, and improved in the intervening 30 plus years.

I do not think tanker design has basically changed that much, and indeed some of those hulls maybe on their second Rodeo in the straits so to speak. I have emailed him given the ongoing discussion and indeed what is happening again there, and he said there were quite a few damaged and some severely back then, but he did not think the loss rate was as high as 40, he believed it to be in the low teens. He did say that he thinks you will start to see the convoying again of tankers in the not too distant future, as its just too much of an important product and choke point.

Cheers
Mr Mac

Back then the cargoes were mostly crude oil. These days there are also a lot of LNG carriers, i.e. liquified methane - and those ships are definitely not the same thing as a old-style crude tanker. Getting crude oil to burn can take a bit of effort, and the spread of fire is relatively slow. Getting LNG to burn, and the rate of spread of fire, is a dramatically different thing. Quatar gas is about 20% of world shipping LNG supplies. Combine all this that is why the LNG spot prices have gone ballistic, the crude oil prices not so much.

212man 3rd March 2026 19:07

I assume that basically UAE and its neighbours are under siege now, and supplies of food and drink and other vital imports are blockaded, and will start to run short?

Lonewolf_50 3rd March 2026 19:14

From India Today: (picture in the spoiler)

An Iran Air passenger aircraft has been destroyed on the ground during Israeli strikes on southern Iran, Iranian media reported, as the widening conflict begins to disrupt civilian aviation and nuclear construction projects. According to Iranian news sites quoted by Reuters, the aircraft belonging to Iran Air was hit during an attack on Bushehr Airport in the southern port city of Bushehr.

Iranian media reported that a passenger plane was "destroyed on the ground" in the strike on the airport. There was no immediate confirmation of casualties or details about whether the aircraft was in service at the time. The reports come amid ongoing Israeli strikes targeting sites across Iran. Bushehr, located along the Persian Gulf, is also home to Iran's only operational nuclear power plant...

Lonewolf_50 3rd March 2026 19:16


Originally Posted by petit plateau (Post 12046337)
Back then the cargoes were mostly crude oil. These days there are also a lot of LNG carriers, i.e. liquified methane - and those ships are definitely not the same thing as a old-style crude tanker. Getting crude oil to burn can take a bit of effort, and the spread of fire is relatively slow. Getting LNG to burn, and the rate of spread of fire, is a dramatically different thing. Quatar gas is about 20% of world shipping LNG supplies. Combine all this that is why the LNG spot prices have gone ballistic, the crude oil prices not so much.

A few years back we discussed the issue of Syria blocking a gas pipeline from the Gulf into the Med, and Europe, thanks to Russia's self interest being impacted.

I wonder if, now that Syria is no longer run by the Assad family, such a pipeline will get built and mitigate the risk of some of that export product. (Yes, I know that pipeline projects take a while to get underway and completed).

SWBKCB 3rd March 2026 19:32

From the BBC:

Trump says US navy will escort tankers through Strait of Hormuz 'if necessary'published at 19:55

19:55Breaking

Donald Trump says "if necessary, the United States Navy will begin escorting tankers through the Strait of Hormuz, as soon as possible".

The US-Israel war with Iran has almost entirely halted shipping traffic passing through the sea passage, which passes between the Persian Gulf and the Gulf of Oman.

It's one of the most important routes in the world for global oil and gas supplies, with almost 20 million barrels of oil passing through a day.

Trump says he has also instructed a federal agency to provide "political risk insurance and guarantees for ALL Maritime Trade" through the Gulf.

"No matter what, the United States will ensure the FREE FLOW of ENERGY to the World," he says.

dead_pan 3rd March 2026 19:53


Originally Posted by SWBKCB (Post 12046358)
From the BBC:

Trump says US navy will escort tankers through Strait of Hormuz 'if necessary'published at 19:55

19:55Breaking

I wonder if they wargamed this? Quite an obvious move by the Iranians, which has clearly got the US's attention.

Given the importance of the passage its not beyond the realm of possibility the Gulf states take it on themselves to intervene here too.

Lonewolf_50 3rd March 2026 20:10

It's Reagan's re-flagging deal re-furbished.

for dead_pan: I'll bet that they did indeed wargame this in the JCS planning cell, but getting other governmental departments / cabinet offices on board such a plan can be a real bitch. {I am so glad to be out of that business...}

I have heard a rumor that DJT has proclaimed that the US will insure the ships if the insurance companies won't.

EDIT: OK, a citation from Al Jazeera

President Donald Trump has announced that the United States government will offer insurance to ships in the Gulf after Iran largely succeeded in shutting down the Strait of Hormuz, sending oil prices soaring.

The US president added that the US military will accompany ships through Hormuz if necessary.

“Effective IMMEDIATELY, I have ordered the United States Development Finance Corporation (DFC) to provide, at a very reasonable price, political risk insurance and guarantees for the Financial Security of ALL Maritime Trade, especially Energy, traveling through the Gulf,” Trump wrote in a social media post on Tuesday.

DFC is the US government’s development finance agency. Its mission is to “advance US foreign policy and strengthen national security by mobilising private capital” across the world.
Trump added that the discounted risk insurance will be available for all shipping lanes.

“If necessary, the United States Navy will begin escorting tankers through the Strait of Hormuz, as soon as possible,” he wrote.

“No matter what, the United States will ensure the FREE FLOW of ENERGY to the WORLD.”

OK, we'll see if he's just spouting hot air, or if he's going to back that up.

Mr Mac 3rd March 2026 20:12

PP
Totally agree LNG are more volatile and the hulls themselves are expensive due to component parts and build.
However there are still a lot of VLCC chugging around there at around 12knots at best who will require protection which it appears they will get now. It didn’t take long for the penny to drop !
Cheers
Mr Mac

langleybaston 3rd March 2026 20:48


Originally Posted by Mr Mac (Post 12046376)
PP
Totally agree LNG are more volatile and the hulls themselves are expensive due to component parts and build.
However there are still a lot of VLCC chugging around there at around 12knots at best who will require protection which it appears they will get now. It didn’t take long for the penny to drop !
Cheers
Mr Mac

Sheesh! Convoys seem a hugely risky tactic. Big slow ships, not used to convoy dsicipline, big fat Navy assets nursing them. At night perhaps. Smoke screen reinvented. Radar suppression.

What could possibly go wrong? I hope this was wargamed,

visibility3miles 3rd March 2026 21:06


Originally Posted by Mr Mac (Post 12046376)
PP
Totally agree LNG are more volatile and the hulls themselves are expensive due to component parts and build.
However there are still a lot of VLCC chugging around there at around 12knots at best who will require protection which it appears they will get now. It didn’t take long for the penny to drop !
Cheers
Mr Mac

The space between the outer hull and inner hull is typically filled with pure nitrogen (not air, which is 80% nitrogen, 20% oxygen) to reduce the chance of fire if one of the inner LNG containers leaks. Won’t help much if hit by a missile.

GlobalNav 3rd March 2026 21:20


Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 (Post 12046352)
A few years back we discussed the issue of Syria blocking a gas pipeline from the Gulf into the Med, and Europe, thanks to Russia's self interest being impacted.

I wonder if, now that Syria is no longer run by the Assad family, such a pipeline will get built and mitigate the risk of some of that export product. (Yes, I know that pipeline projects take a while to get underway and completed).

The pipeline will probably just multiply the number of targets. It’s not like it’s a peaceful and secure part of the world.

TWT 3rd March 2026 21:35


Originally Posted by MostlyHarmless (Post 12046306)
Not sure I'd be so cavalier rough handling what is essentially a UXB :ooh:

That explains why his mates departed quickly in their vehicle and left that guy there by himself manhandling the UXB :)
The Iranian versions have a 40kg warhead, I guess this one would be similar, that will ruin your day at point blank range.

ORAC 3rd March 2026 22:16

B-52s outbound after completing their first Iran bombing mission. 30 hour round trip.

Audio of Chill 11 a flight of 3 x B-52s outbound joining up up with 4 x KC-46s with Boston ATC yesterday; now audio checking in with Nicosia ATC to join another flight of waiting tankers westbound.

I am presuming direct back home rather than to Fairford.



Asturias56 3rd March 2026 22:20


Originally Posted by 212man (Post 12046348)
I assume that basically UAE and its neighbours are under siege now, and supplies of food and drink and other vital imports are blockaded, and will start to run short?

That's unlikely - all the UAE has a long land border with Saudi Arabia and Oman with some perfectly respectable roads, multilane highways etc linking them together. You can truck in anything that is running short very quickly. Truck drivers will, of course, make a fortune ;)

Friends in Dubai say they're sitting at home and not going out but there's no shortage of anything - other than flights

clareprop 3rd March 2026 22:44

A quick look at FR24 shows a dramatic increase in aircraft movements around UAE/Saudi/Bahrain. No major missile attacks today from Iran. An unofficial ceasefire with 'talks' or Iran licking their wounds and US/Israel just biding their time?

Ninthace 3rd March 2026 23:17

I read Mr Trump wants the US Navy to convoy ships through the Straits. Surely that would create what, in military circles, is referred to as a target rich environment.

RAFEngO74to09 3rd March 2026 23:31

Missile hit on Al Udeid - no casualties


Damage to $1.1 Billion AN/FPS-132 phased array radar claimed by Iran a few days ago now confirmed by Qatar & commercially available satellite imagery.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HChR3-ua...jpg&name=small

Lonewolf_50 3rd March 2026 23:46


Originally Posted by Ninthace (Post 12046476)
I read Mr Trump wants the US Navy to convoy ships through the Straits. Surely that would create what, in military circles, is referred to as a target rich environment.

Yes. The current state of drone tech and the Iranian inventory argue for that being an increased risk over the reflagging that went on during the 80's. The year is 2026. Things are a bit more dangerous, thanks to the advances in technology.

Ninthace 3rd March 2026 23:46


Originally Posted by langleybaston (Post 12046394)
Sheesh! Convoys seem a hugely risky tactic. Big slow ships, not used to convoy dsicipline, big fat Navy assets nursing them. At night perhaps. Smoke screen reinvented. Radar suppression.

What could possibly go wrong? I hope this was wargamed,

A target rich environment with the added bonus of damaging a US vessel?

Lonewolf_50 4th March 2026 00:10


Originally Posted by RAFEngO74to09 (Post 12046481)
Missile hit on Al Udeid - no casualties
Damage to $1.1 Billion AN/FPS-132 phased array radar claimed by Iran a few days ago now confirmed by Qatar & commercially available satellite imagery.

That is what one would call a "High Payoff Target" since disabling it degrades the future TBMD efforts. Someone in the Iranian MoD or IRGC is having a cigar.

RAFEngO74to09 4th March 2026 00:27

WSJ - not usually a reliable source - claims a Kuwaiti F/A-18 shot down the 3 x USAF F-15E.

Source not named and CENTCOM declined to comment while under investigation.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HCh4MxQX...g&name=900x900

West Coast 4th March 2026 00:59

The War Zone online publication is also suggesting it was a Kuwaiti F18.

fdr 4th March 2026 02:04


Originally Posted by RAFEngO74to09 (Post 12046493)
WSJ - not usually a reliable source - claims a Kuwaiti F/A-18 shot down the 3 x USAF F-15E.

Source not named and CENTCOM declined to comment while under investigation.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HCh4MxQX...g&name=900x900

Where is the Kuwaiti proto-ace going to get his cigar from?

artee 4th March 2026 02:10


Originally Posted by fdr (Post 12046504)
Where is the Kuwaiti proto-ace going to get his cigar from?

Is this a record? 3 kills of a friendly force in one go.

West Coast 4th March 2026 02:12


Originally Posted by fdr (Post 12046504)
Where is the Kuwaiti proto-ace going to get his cigar from?

In that stretch of the world, it may be something a little more ominous coming his way if he is found to be at fault. Different time, different country, but the Iraqi pilot who launched on the USS Stark reportedly was honored, others say he was executed.

Lonewolf_50 4th March 2026 02:22


Originally Posted by RAFEngO74to09 (Post 12046493)
WSJ - not usually a reliable source - claims a Kuwaiti F/A-18 shot down the 3 x USAF F-15E.

Source not named and CENTCOM declined to comment while under investigation.

Ok, he got the hat trick. I guess he's buying the drinks at the O'Club.
(Oh, wait, do Kuwaiti pilots drink at home airbase, or do they go over the bridge to Bahrain to do that?)

fdr 4th March 2026 02:44


Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 (Post 12046514)
Ok, he got the hat trick. I guess he's buying the drinks at the O'Club.
(Oh, wait, do Kuwaiti pilots drink at home airbase, or do they go over the bridge to Bahrain to do that?)

Maybe.. in 2000, around Gekkos bar in I-Tae-Won, one of our crews had an F-15 mate in town on an exercise... the talk turned towards the Eagle drivers experience in exercise with the same flock that we were flying jumbo's with post their retirement from defending the blue house. When prompted the Eagle driver commented that he had been shot down 3 times in the exercise so far, which was pretty impressive, he was up against some F-5Es and F-16s... We were surprised given our exposure to the elders of the same group, but it was explainable when the hapless aviator lamented that they had all been on Blue team along with him, which then, didn't seem quite so shocking.

ORAC 4th March 2026 04:08


CENTCOM says that it destroyed Iran’s most operational submarine, which now “has a hole in its side”

Rumours circulated Iranian media yesterday that IRIS Fateh (920), the lead ship of its class, had been attacked near Bandar Abbass.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....684602508.jpeg

Video​​​​​​​

​​​​​​​Adm. Cooper: "We are also sinking the Iranian navy. The entire navy. Thus far, we've destroyed 17 Iranian ships. Including the most operational Iranian submarine, that now has a hole in its side." Unclassified DOW footage released today…

ORAC 4th March 2026 04:56

B-2s active again over Iran last night.

No sign of any tankers launching from the Azores so I wonder if they are now active out of Diego Garcia after Starmer’s U-turn.


​​​​​​​CBS reported B-2 bombers are currently involved in operations over Iran, targeting strategic IRGC command and control bases and other strategic facilities, as fresh explosion footage emerged from Tehran approximately 30 minutes ago.


TWT 4th March 2026 05:34

Iranian frigate sinking near Sri Lanka
 

Sri Lanka sent ships and aircraft to rescue 30 Iranian sailors aboard the Iranian frigate - Iris Dena - which was sinking Wednesday just ouside the island's territorial waters, AFP news agency reported, citing foreign minister Vijitha Herath said
https://www.hindustantimes.com/world...605277885.html

Mr Mac 4th March 2026 06:55


Originally Posted by langleybaston (Post 12046394)
Sheesh! Convoys seem a hugely risky tactic. Big slow ships, not used to convoy dsicipline, big fat Navy assets nursing them. At night perhaps. Smoke screen reinvented. Radar suppression.

What could possibly go wrong? I hope this was wargamed,

LB
My cousin said one of the issues last time with convoys was the Grey Funnel fleet not realising the lack of manoeuvrability of their charges and also the suction effect of such large hulls as they dwarf even the largest aircraft carriers, so there were a couple of close calls when said Grey Funnels got too close. I think the routing as is currently was suspended and they hugged the Omani and UAE coast.

Cheers
Mac

Ninthace 4th March 2026 07:58


Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 (Post 12046514)
Ok, he got the hat trick. I guess he's buying the drinks at the O'Club.
(Oh, wait, do Kuwaiti pilots drink at home airbase, or do they go over the bridge to Bahrain to do that?)

In my brief sojourns with the Kuwaiti forces at their Staff College, they were very TT. Bit of a schlepp to the bridge too!

MissChief 4th March 2026 08:17

Kuwaiti pilots, eh?

ORAC 4th March 2026 09:08

..............

​​​​​​​IRANIAN JET SHOT DOWN: An IAF F-35I “Adir” fighter jet shot down an Iranian Air Force YAK-130 fighter jet. This is the first shootdown in history of a manned fighter aircraft by an F-35 “Adir” fighter jet.

ORAC 4th March 2026 09:10

..............

​​​​​​​Russian drone attacks Dubai.

Iran has attacked the United Arab Emirates with drones of Russian origin: Debris from the "Geran-2" was found in Dubai – media reports.

Following Iran's attack on the United Arab Emirates, fragments of a drone with the Russian designation "Geran-2" were found near the Jebel Ali port in Dubai.


DogTailRed2 4th March 2026 09:55


Originally Posted by artee (Post 12046506)
Is this a record? 3 kills of a friendly force in one go.

I believe in the "Battle of Barking Creek" and also after Pearl Harbour three RAF Hurricanes and three Hellcats were downed by friendly fire in a single incident respectively.
Possibly friendly fire into three figures for "Operation Bodenplatte" although don't quote me on that.

Presumably if the F-15's were attacked with IR and the F-18 was dark they wouldn't have known about it until impact?

JSF-TC 4th March 2026 11:27

Didn't see this get any comments.

Well done the UK Lightning Force:ok:

https://theaviationist.com/2026/03/0...einforcements/

Recc 4th March 2026 11:58

Report of Iranian ballistic missile intercepted by NATO forces over Turkey. Would be interesting to know if Turkey was the target or if it was heading further West. Sigonella would possibly fit with an interception over Hatay province?

https://bsky.app/profile/noelreports.../3mgaaybbeec27


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