Inappropriate relationships and drinking within the UAS
 

It has come to my attention that a number of instructors seem to think it acceptable to have relationships with students who are under their guidance....Not only that, but it also seems crazy that in an organisation that prides itself on standards we are encouraging these UAS students to drink themselves into oblivion. Surely this is something that really must be adressed.

Can't comment on the relationship aspect, but the drinking one, I feel, is being blown out of proportions somewhat.

Whilst I don't deny that there are some heavy drinkers, it is by no means encouraged and it is always stressed that at no time is anybody obliged to drink, participation is always totally voluntary. The vast majority are sensible in their intake and know of the implications of any stupid behaviour. Of course, there's a minority who will take it too far, there always is.

A cursory glance around any student town around the country would show many, many more young people getting themselves into far worse conditions than would be evident at certain Mess' around the RAF.

Not a bad troll for a probationer. What started that thought?

Bugger, did I feed the troll?
Apologies

Whilst I get what you're saying about there being a lot of drinking wherever there are students, don't you find it just a little worying that this drinking culture is being encouraged (I've seen it with my own eyes on numerous occasions) by various drinking games and actively encouraged by instructors. The relationship bit worries me, when you see Instructors placed in positions of authority, and they think liasons with 18 and 19 year old students are "a bit of fun". It's only going to take one "mistake" for there to be utter outrage.

BU66ER!

I thought the thread title was an offer.... maybe a Forces' discount on some nubile, yet naive, 18-19 yr old student (female).

Are there any out there to send my way?

Or should I join a UAS as an instructor to get some?

As several instructors have married students in the past, and drinking has been part of military culture since Roman times, I doubt you'll get much of a rise here.

I agree on the relationship side, it is an abuse of a position of responsibility, but not in the same way as a teacher and pupil, we are all adults here [though we may act otherwise!].
The most I have ever heard of are holding officers 'interracting' with students, and as the last holding officer we had was younger than me, and got involved more as a student than anything else, I dont see that being such a problem.

Again, I don't believe the drinking is a realistic issue. I have been to countless events, and never witnessed anything like the number of incidents that I do when going out in town.

And also, after seeing first hand what goes on in some Officer's Mess' around the country [proper ones now, not our pretend ones] we are rank amatuers.

Bet even the the QFIs don't have as much fun as Midshipman **** of 88 course on RN EFTS at Leeming. Despite "relations" between orficers and ORs being verboten in the Cr@bs, the sneaky youngster managed a threes-up in his cabin/room with two WAAF mess stewards after the 87 course leaving bash :}

I think you'll find there are a number of QFI's who've had more than just "a quick grope behind the bike shed" with students...... Including the married ones. "Detachment rules"

Picture the scene .... young 19 year old girl and instructor (not much older probably) in UNIFORM, ... need I go on?

Who's taking advantage of whom!!!

Cheers

Whirls

PS - who spotted the operative word there!!

I don't object to the youngsters, but when it's the over 30's who are taking advantage I think that's a different story.

So, it's just an age thing eh? Not jealous are we?

I can assure you (really!!), that some 19 year old girls find older men very attractive especially if they scrub up well in uniform. Why on earth should age and age gap make it any different?

It's either a matter of principle or it isn't!

Cheers

Whirls

as the man said, they are all adults, so i don't see what age has to do with it. my memory is that the female studes were just as keen to pull a 'proper pilot' as the officers were to tuck into a bit of young totty. and agreed it was far more from the holding kevs than full time instructors, who in my experience limited themselves to banter and leching from a distance.

if they are married then that is morally reprehensible but hardly Service-specific.

at the end of the day it is up to the boss of the sqn to make clear what the rules are on his trainset. and it's down to people's mates on the sqn to make sure they don't do anything stupid.

as for drinking, it's value as a bonding mechanism far outweighs any of its disadvantages - non-drinkers were never excluded and always very highly appreciated if they were picking up the pieces/doing the driving.

Why the morale outrage? All consenting adults under the rules, if people want to play away the nanny state can't stop them!
Drinking is not compulsory, being fit to fly is, but that's a different issue. Has it ever been any different in the UAS/OTC/URNU?

I'm sure there are much more inappropriate relationships going on all over the country, check press for details. :hmm:

Sounds like the perfect job from where I'm sitting. And a fresh intake every September?! Can't be bad.

Where do I join?!?

"........than full time instructors, who in my experience limited themselves to banter and leching from a distance."

About sums it up for most of us.

I can't say I see the problem, if I'm honest.

My time instructing at a UAS I found a joy, both the flying and the social aspect.

I maintain the time spent in the cockpit was conducted with the utmost professionalism, but on the ground - being a red-blooded male, I suppose I must confess to hanging out of the back of a few myself...

Its not as if they put up a fight or showed any objection, most were in fact rather welcoming, and after all, they were all at least 16 from what I gathered.

What seems to be the problem? A private can marry a General, so why can't an instructor go through a couple of cadets??

I remember having to host a group of RN CCF cadets visiting Culdrose. They were from Kelly College, which is/was co-ed. The senior cadet was very curvy, very blonde, and oozing hormones. Were we wrong to fancy each other? I was about 18 months older and a Midshipman. I do hope not....

airborne artist, are your posts related? :}

The only issue I can see is the possible scenario where instructor and student have had "relations" and then instructor has to give student a bollocking - instructor might not feel so inclined.

Cheers

Whirls

So just so i'm clear on this. It's ok for an older guy (I'm talking 30-40's)who's been given a position of authority and moral responsibility, to be getting to know rather well, his 18 and 19 year old student. Would it be ok if it was her university lecturer, or perhaps if she was in 6th form and it was her form master?

No, I wasn't the one enjoying the pleasure of two at once - I think he was about four doors down the block and on the other side of the corridor. And sad to say nothing happened with the curvy cadet, so 100% failure on both counts.

Yep, pretty much, they are engaging in extra-curricular activity, and so was I.

Would have been a dull old tour if we all played by the rules... Can't beat a bit of young blood!

Seen-A-Lot

grow up and do something official about it, if it is an abuse of power:mad: If it ain't - accept that they are gettin some and you ain't and stop whingin:yuk:

have a spine or crawl back under the stone:ugh:

I've rattled someones cage have I? To be honest I can think of nothing worse. 18..... no thanks. Like dipping my wick in my mates daughter.

Why ISN'T it OK - apart from the reason I gave for you? An 18/19 year old girl is NOT a child and, when it comes to girls, they are a lot more mature than boys and are capable (in most cases) of making a decision. As long as it is consenting, what is wrong?

When I was at school, the PE teacher had a "relationship" with a fifth year (she was 16) and, as far as I know, they are still married.

MCPWhore says you can't beat a bit of new blood - I say you can't beat a bit of experience!

Sorry, I've just seen your last post wrt rattling cages. You're a first time poster (although maybe not new to Pprune) and have made some "tut-tut isn't it awful" comments with which very few people agree. So, if you feel a particular situation is "out of order", then you should speak to the appropriate people. If you're asking for other people's opinions to the matter, you'll find that most think there's no big deal.

Cheers

Whirls

I am in need of some refresher training dear Whirls.....:E

Sassy dahling,

I'm not sure it works the other way round i.e. older male student and younger, female instructor! :E

Nice try sweet! :ok:

Cheers

Whirls

Seen a lot
 

I don't see anyone in the UAS system complaining, so why the **** are you?

Only if you go to a UAS for girls. Man up and get drinking, it will stand you in good stead for the rest of your time in the airforce!

Woah! Im not saying I don't drink! I'm just saying that it's not a forced thing...

I know very few people who don't, but I know that if somebody said 'nah, not tonight thanks' we would never push them into it.

Not any longer, section 16 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 created the offence of Abuse of position of trust: sexual activity with a child. Without going through it word by word a teacher having any sexual activity with a pupil under 18 who attends the place of education at which he teaches faces up to 5 years of "re-education" at one of Her Majesty's penal institutions.

You like dipping your wick in your mate's daughter eh? Does he know?

And you have the front to question UAS staff.
The downright cheek!

I agree with the above. Got a problem - use the chain of command. If you haven't - don't try and stir the sh!t in here. Weasel.

Just cos you ain't getting any...?

It genuinely pains me to say it, but if you beleive that the UAS drink heavily you clearly haven't socilised with URNU or UOTC...

So let me get this right, two (or in some cases three, jammy bar steward!) consenting adults of legal age have been 'getting it on' having met through work; this may also have involved some socialising. Someone not involved has decided to go public rather than confront the issue to those 'bumping uglies'. So, I asume this is Mr Prescott at it again?
Frankly, it's up to them! If they are happy, who are we to complain? If they are not, there are plenty of ways of solving it between themselves (I believe that dumping by text is now de rigeur). For myself, I wonder would it have been ok if one of my IOT Flt Cdrs had offered me a ride; she certainly did in my dreams....................................................
whoops, ND, ND!

At most universities that sort of thing is OK but the lecturer has to tell the head of department, so they don't find themselves marking the student's exams... This is quite a good deterrent: having to go to the Professor and explain you are bonking half your seminar group is a tad hard to do. Unless he's doing it too, of course.

Tim

Whirls my sweet....even old rats like cheese! I'll go halves on the bar bill....honest!

With great respect, if any of you or your colleagues are detected having a relationship with a person where there is an instructor/student relationship that implies trust and a position of power in any institution I am aware of, you will be immediately shown the door, notwithstanding legal age etc. etc.

While I am aware of people getting away with it in the services over here, it is NOT a good idea and scandals and lots of tears regularly occur - they just rarely make the media.

P.S. Is pregnancy regarded as a self inflicted wound?

[SIGH]
I just wish I had the chance with the younger girls these days (16-30 age group before you start)!!!:\
Saying that....even 30 is pushing it now!!:{

MOG:cool:

In the non-PC 80s, pregnant ladies were referred to by A+E staff at Tommys' as "Bedroom stabbings"