A lot of these arguments are null and void if you think about it. Look at the paras, who proudly display their jump wings on their cabbage kit, both at home and away, and they are rightly proud of their achievements to earn the badge. The RMs wear a whacking great dagger and slogan depicting their speciality. How can aircrew be criticised for wearing their wings on their kit, when they certainly have earned the right to wear them.

The RM and Paras all comply to dress regulations. I've never understood the thinking that aircrew ( espeacily senior aircrew ) can do what they like.

All the AAC pilots I have seen wear their wings on CS95 so it seems you will only get criticised if you are aircrew AND RAF. But at least we all have our Royal Air Force badge, Union Jack and DZ patch so no one will mistake us for Paras or Marines:ok:

Hmmm, I have always had that problem! But JOY! NO LONGER!

[QUOTE]But at least we all have our Royal Air Force badge, Union Jack and DZ patch so no one will mistake us for Paras or Marines [QUOTE]


Trust me that will never happen.................with or without your badges!!;)

With few exceptions the infantry and the AAC do not operate far behind enemy lines - thus their uniform is not really an issue if captured. Aircrew are of course frequently operating in some depth beyond the front line, and those acting in support of SF either in SH, AT or moving mud should think about the guys they might be giving away, as well as their own skins, before going adorned with too many badges.

FWIW badges do not stop bullets :E

Those aircrew you mention would not be wearing CS95 (No 3 Service Dress) - they would be wearing flying kit (No 14 Dress (Flying Clothing)).

AA
That's all very well, but these days 'enemy lines' are a little bit blurred. Classic definitions of FLOT etc don't really do justice to how we find the ground truth in Iraq and Afghanistan.
There is an argument put forward that you should put as many badges on as possible so that you are 'humanized' to the individuals who may be trying to/have captured you. Can't say I'm overly excited either way, or by the prospect of being caught by the Taliban, AQ or even the local village Mullah!
You're not going to compromise anyone by either wearing a badge or not wearing a badge. If you're caught everything to do with any Op is considered compromised. And if someone's holding a gun to my head, that consideration would be well placed!
So ultimately, wear your SD hat, wings on your CS95, jump wings on your shoulder or poncy Harrier flap boots. You'll look a pratt, but it won't make a jot of difference to how you're treated by the enemy.
But, if you want to be ridiculed by all your mates (and break dress regs) put your wings on your desert combats!:E

...........LOL...........

So in these conditions it's very simple - wear CS95/grow-bag, negative badges of any description - not even rank. You should know and be known by your team, and no-one else needs to know.

If you've got wings/Boy Scouts' hoof-picking qualification, so what, both are knack-all use in a fire-fight, in my humble and all-too-real experience.

Surely, by definition, having wings automatically makes me knack all use in a firefight. :} That and the pop-gun I'm carrying...Luckily I'm dead-eye Dick following my ten rounds this year.;)

Unless they happen to be in JHC when they probably won't. Or if they do, it's not personal issue and it is handed over to the next chap at the end of the det.

And not just on their cabbage kit either :oh:

About 3 years ago, Comd JHC (an RAF 2*) decided not to spend his (shrinking) budget on desert flying suits but that the boys would stag on in temperates. The decision has not been reversed by his successor, despite being asked.

Hmmm....

Introduction

The main legislation governing Personal Protective Equipment at work is the Personal Protective Equipment at Work Regulations (PPE) 1992. The Management of Heath and Safety at Work Regulations (MHSW) 1999 also control this area. This article explains what sorts of equipment employers should provide as well as the precautions employees need to take in order to stay safe.

The MSHW regulations require employers to identify and assess the risks to health and safety in the workplace. All risks must then minimised as far as possible. Where an activity requires some risk, the risk could be minimised in a number of ways – one of which is to wear the appropriate personal protective equipment.

Regulation requirements

The requirements are simply that where there is a risk to an employee’s health and or safety, which cannot be controlled in other ways, protective equipment must be supplied (by the employer) and used by the employee carrying out the activity at hand.

The Regulations also require that:

- the equipment is properly assessed before use to ensure suitability

- it is maintained and stored properly

- it is provided with instructions for safe use

- it is used correctly by employees

What is PPE?

Personal protective Equipment (PPE) is “all equipment (including clothing affording protection against the weather) which is intended to be worn or held by a person at work and which protects him against one or more risks to his health or safety”. This could include helmets, gloves, eye protection, safety harnesses, high-visibility clothing and more.

Hearing protection and respiratory protective equipment are not covered by these regulations. The former is covered by the Noise at Work Regulations. Of course these items must still be compatible with PPE.

Cycle helmets and crash helmets worn by employees on the road are not covered by these regulations. Motor cycle helmets are legally required under road traffic legislation.

Can I charge for using PPE?

No consideration is required by the employee for the use of protective equipment. However, if a term in the employment contract states that the employee must return the equipment, and he does not do so, the employer would then be entitled to deduct a suitable amount from the wages owing to the employee.

Assessment of PPE

The hazard in the work place must first be assessed. Once the exact risks are known, suitable PPE can be selected. Make sure that the equipment does not adversely affect the overall risks of the activity. Make sure that the equipment can be appropriately adjusted to ensure a good fit for the individual who is to wear the equipment. If more than one item of PPE is worn, are they compatible with each other?

Eyes – hazards include chemical or metal splash, dust, gas and vapour and radiation. PPE could include goggles, visors, safety spectacles and face masks.

Head – hazards include impact from falling or flying objects, risk of head bumping, hair entanglements. PPE could include a range of helmets and bump caps.

Breathing – hazards include dust, vapour, gas, oxygen deficient atmospheres. PPE could include air-fed helmets, breathing apparatus, partial or full face masks.

Protection of the body – hazards include extreme temperatures, adverse weather, chemical or metal splash, and contaminated dust. PPE could include disposable or conventional overalls, bodysuits, chain mail, high-visibility clothing.

Hand and arms – hazards incude abrasion, cuts and punctures, electric shock, skin infection. PPE could include gloves, wrist cuffs or armlets.

Face and legs – hazards include wet / damp, falling objects, slipping, abrasion. PPE could include safety boots and shoes, leggings.


I would have thought that your employer had an obligation to provide you with PPE which affords you the relavant protection from 'extremes of temperature' under the Health and Safety at Work regulations - and if the current budget can't run to that, then either the budget needs to be increased or the task re-assessed.

Thank you for that cut-and-pastathon Beags, very civil.

Now if you could just explain to me how any of that makes it alright to wear an SD hat and a brevet with desert combats please....

There's a good chap.

Tad harsh there QFIHawkman, I think BEagle's post referred to the message immediately above his.

Fair point, I was just seeing if I could tempt Beags with a little bait. I wondered whether he could possibly come out with a comment as crass as his earlier one about berets!

"They're soo working class dear boy!"

Wonder who killed your other goat baiting thread?

God knows, things are getting pulled left right and center in here at the moment!

I will not dignify your post with a reply.

Ratboy,

He/she is commisioned so your mistakes was believing a thing he/she has to say:rolleyes:

I will not reply to childish insults like yours ABIW.

People like you will go away if they are ignored for long enough.

Said the man replying!;)

'One' ??!!

SD Hat and combats = gay!

That's the new recruiting advertising poster sorted then.....:p

Many guys who work in the joint environment want to know that you are aircrew if you have some kind of direct liason in which your expertise is important to them. Most people will apportion variable credibilty to advice depending on the person and their level of knowledge. It was put to me very succinctly in a conversation where some gentlemen said "How am I supposed to know who you are and what you do, you're just another blue-suiter to me!"
The Paras wear wings, and they are proud of it. The Marines wear daggers and the regiments (and now the RAF) wear flashes and are proud of it. Many air forces (RAAF, USAF etc..) have got badges to wear on blues, they are obviously proud too! Of course, there are times when wearing them would be foolish, like if you are prone to capture, but in general they are to be worn because it is who we are. The problem is the RAF is so fluffy-wuffy that the chaps without wings get terribly put-out when someone is around who is wearing a set. I make no apology for the fact they are a status symbol - it is part of our history.
We've worked our socks off to get our wings. Either get some yourself or stop whineing.
Rant over.

Many tradespeople in the Avionic/Communications field have worked their socks off to obtain their 'Sparky' badge, but are they allowed to emblazon it on their woolly pully, or their coveralls or CS95's, NO, but it is still a trade badge, just like the 1 or ½ winged aircrew trade badge.:8

Then again, how many tradespeople in the Avionic/Communications field would actually want to wear it on CS95's. I would bet that they would not constantly whinge about not being able to wear them either.:bored:

In 1943 the automatic pilot was invented, we still await the invention of the automatic groundcrew.

Hat & Coat at the ready

If only they had worked their socks off a few years earlier, at school.

:{

Pilot is not a trade it's a profession - officers are commissioned into a branch, not a trade. Do they train for 3 years to get a sparkey trade badge?

Yes, the Cosford apprentices DID do 3 years training for their Sparky badges.:)

If officers are commissioned into a branch, not a trade, then surely the Admin officers (those of the Admin Profession) should push to be allowed to wear Biro badges on their CS95's.

Maybe Gold Biros for those that pass the Accountancy course, Silver for those that produce SRO's and Bronze for the others.

And that would then enable the HR Admin staff to push to have a Pencil for their trade badge. 2B Pencils for those that pass the Accountancy course, HB for those that assist in the production of SRO's and crayons for the others.:ok:


Please also remember that NOT all pilots are commisioned, Teeny Weenies have NCO Pilots, so they are commisioned into nothing.:ugh:

Tell me ZH...have you ever visited the planet Earth?

Yes, and each time I do, I always find AIRCREW whingeing about not being allowed to wear their flying suits for GROUND based DESK jobs, never mind not being allowed their wings (various) on their clothing etc.

I wonder how many aircrew wear their brevets on their pyjamas (Not including Harrier pilots or the Red Arrows, as this will be taken for granted:) )

They're only badges, get a life.

I am off back to Magrathea.

Yet the funny thing is, when the tacky prep school pullover came in as a part of RAF uniform in the early '70s, the suggestion that one should wear one's flying badge on it was originally just a wind up from a bloke on 617....

Which some airship obviously took seriously.

The damn woolly pully has been worn with and without flying badge, with a stable belt on the outside, it's had crew neck, v-neck, back to crew neck; it's been worn with and with out a tie; shirt collar in and collar out.....

And it has always looked like the piece of $hit it really is.

The pre-'thunderbird' V-force/QRA(I) aircrew barathea battledress was always the best No. 2 uniform - and was NEVER worn with a $odding beret!

I agree wholeheartedly about not wearing flying suits whilst on a ground tour.

Just seems to me you are rather bitter that you don't have a "badge" to sew onto your HHG to the G pyjamas. :(

Never mind eh.

Aircrew
 

NO, but it is still a trade badge, just like the 1 or ½ winged aircrew trade badge.

Let me enlighten you, young man, being aircrew is not a trade it is a profession.

"Talking down to juniors" switch off.

3P

Well, a beret makes its wearer look like a paedophile, no matter what one choses to wear below the neck.

I'll stick to my SD hat, especially if it pi$$es people off. It's taken years to get it properly scruffy, I think it helped me get PAS

Time old boy you need to update your banter, 'worked harder at school?' I used to get that from my boss until he discovered I had a 2:1 in a real subject as against his 3 in applied underwater basket-weaving!

So cheap jibes aside no problems with aircrew wearing wings as far as I see, only disappointed that us (ex) pondlife weren’t given subdued eagle flashes to separate us from the common army rabble, rather than the longest oblong badge ever to be sewn onto CS95. Easier identification saves on CSMs having heart attacks when confronted with any members of HM’s Flying Club.

‘When did you last have a haircut/shave?
Er, dunno, no water on the mountain for a month

‘When did you last clean your boots?’
Full of deso

‘Where’s your beret?’
Gave it to my boss, he’s lost his

‘Are your hands cold?’
Yes, it’s minus 2 and stores have no cw gloves

‘You’re RAF aren’t you?’
Yes
‘Oh, sorry, go on, f@@@ off’

RAF Mount Pleasant 1986

Description of aircrew 'profession':

ALM Door Up, door down. cooker on, cooker off.
Pilot Gear Up, Gear down, Flaps up, flaps down
Flt Eng - Forget them as they are obsolescent.
Navigator - follow the pilot in front - (very difficult?)


I really am glad that I didnt do better at school.:)

You can train a monkey to ride a bike, but can he fix it?