PPRuNe Forums - Falcon to the edge of Russian airspace.

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- - Falcon to the edge of Russian airspace. (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/658194-falcon-edge-russian-airspace.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DogTailRed2 (Post 11616673)

Looking at the accident thread, yes.

Correction:
Aircraft that can't navigate without GPS?
No.
Pilots that can't navigate without GPS?
Yes!

tdracer; not a navigator by any chance?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herod (Post 11617320)

tdracer; not a navigator by any chance?

No, just old enough to remember when we (collectively) seemed to be able to navigate just fine long before GPS was even a gleam in someone's eye.

Can recall trans Pacific 707 airline with the hole in the ceiling for the sextant td

tdracer; OK, cleared that up, and I agree with you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by megan (Post 11617450)

Can recall trans Pacific 707 airline with the hole in the ceiling for the sextant td

A hole much like this, perhaps?

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....01b31748ff.png

House-keeping time ?

Quote:

A hole much like this, perhaps?

And the early 747s as well.

Between starshots, If your aircraft had pressurisation, and you happened to have a suitable length of flexible hose in your flight bag, you could also use it to vacuum up all the dross on the flight deck.:)

LFH

In November 1961, I was one of two Flying Officers detailed to take a pair of Hunter FGA9s from St Athans to Bahrain. This was part of a replenishment plan to replace the Near East Hiunter squadrons' knackered aircraft with newly refurbushed ones, and return the knackered ones to UK. UK was reacting to a request by Kuwait for help in repulsing Iran's pre-Gulf War 1 threat in the region. With no operational air to air refuelling in those days, our route was UK - Malta, refuel and on to Cyprus. Nightstop. Cyprus north into Turket, right turn, route overhear Diyabakir, slight right rurn and land at Teheran. Refuel and on to Bahrain.

We were specificlly briefed to expect unfriendly interference with ADF signals, particularly along the roughly Easterly leg along Turkey. Sure enough, although our ADFs were tuned to stations ahead of us, the pointers and identification codes enticed us to follow their direction and to fly North. Apparently an Allied transport aircraft had fairly recently done just that, and had been shot down.

The problem did not exist for us on the return leg, because the knackered Hunters' ADFs were U/S.

Wwyvern: I can confirm also having experience of a strong but misleading ADF beacon on crossing from Iran into Turkey on that CENTO Route circa 1967/8. A back-plotted 3-line fix put the source nicely across the then-Soviet border.

And for LordFH, that clean-up routine was a standard Flt Eng task on the C-141A before Top of Descent on any long route leg.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mogwi (Post 11617149)

Indeed! Mekoning (or more correctly maeconing) was the re-broadcasting of navigation signals from a different location, to confuse unwary chaps. The classic case in the ‘70’s was an NDB (I think) in northern Germany that was “cloned” by the naughty Ruskies and re-broadcast at higher power to tempt the boys to head too far East.

As I remember, it caused quite a few “Brass Monkey” shouts but never an actual whoopsie.

Ah, heady days!

Mog

Indeed. I used to fly a Support Command aircraft type which was frequently used to exercise the freedom of (usually) the centre corridor into Gatow. The threat of 'Meaconing' was something we were constantly aware of. Though, on reflection, there was probably far more risk to one's health from a Friday night out on the Kurferstandamm with the crew than from a moody VOR, while tracking inbound to HLZ.