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Falcon to the edge of Russian airspace.

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Falcon to the edge of Russian airspace.

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Old 15th Mar 2024, 18:27
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Falcon to the edge of Russian airspace.

Who could possibly have imagined that this could have happened?
Russians jamming Comms?? Well I never.
Strictly speaking we should be paying them for saving us from Grant Shapops for a few minutes I suppose…
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Old 15th Mar 2024, 18:29
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I came here because I thought it was about the latest SpaceX launch going wrong. 😁
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Old 15th Mar 2024, 18:53
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The fact that the rest of us having been dealing with this for a couple of years has probably passed him by.
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Old 15th Mar 2024, 18:54
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Originally Posted by TURIN
I came here because I thought it was about the latest SpaceX launch going wrong. 😁
I came here because I thought SpaceX was trolling Russia from space. Now that would be cool.
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Old 15th Mar 2024, 20:13
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Are there really people on this thread who think commercial and military aircraft can’t navigate without GPS?
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Old 15th Mar 2024, 20:49
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Originally Posted by Video Mixdown
Are there really people on this thread who think commercial and military aircraft can’t navigate without GPS?
You tell me.
I was responding to the naivety of the reporting which suggested that they were “blind”.
More to the point, the reporting that it couldn’t have happened to Air Force One ( which I believe it could not). I suspect it couldn’t have happened to the Voyager either. But yes , give the defence secretary a thrill by flying close to Russian airspace in essentially a business jet to save a few bob, and this is what will happen.
How the incident comes to be in the public domain might seem like a good question to some people too.
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Old 15th Mar 2024, 20:49
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Originally Posted by Video Mixdown
Are there really people on this thread who think commercial and military aircraft can’t navigate without GPS?
Looking at the accident thread, yes.
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Old 15th Mar 2024, 21:49
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Originally Posted by falcon900
You tell me.
I was responding to the naivety of the reporting which suggested that they were “blind”.
More to the point, the reporting that it couldn’t have happened to Air Force One ( which I believe it could not). I suspect it couldn’t have happened to the Voyager either. But yes , give the defence secretary a thrill by flying close to Russian airspace in essentially a business jet to save a few bob, and this is what will happen.
How the incident comes to be in the public domain might seem like a good question to some people too.
There was no 'incident'. Just a hysterically inaccurate media story about something that has been happening for months.
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Old 15th Mar 2024, 22:07
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He could always have gone in his own aeroplane(N Reg),taken a few dozen maps;;would have been able to claim a couple of night stops,`HOME-T0-Duty`mileage; might even have missed the border and ended up in Red Square...
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Old 15th Mar 2024, 22:24
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Our boys would break out the periscopic sextant, warmed up the radio altimeter and continued bravely on using pressure pattern navigation and referring to ground features from their topos. No problem.
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Old 15th Mar 2024, 23:48
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Originally Posted by bugged on the right
Our boys would break out the periscopic sextant, warmed up the radio altimeter and continued bravely on using pressure pattern navigation and referring to ground features from their topos. No problem.
Works for me
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Old 16th Mar 2024, 01:06
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Originally Posted by Video Mixdown
There was no 'incident'. Just a hysterically inaccurate media story about something that has been happening for months.
Absolutely. I caught the Sky News pundits reviewing the papers, the utter drivel one particular commentator spouted on this issue wasn't just laughable it was slanderous! I can only assume the rest of their reporting was just as bad on politics, business and sport too.
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Old 16th Mar 2024, 09:19
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Originally Posted by falcon900
Who could possibly have imagined that this could have happened?
Russians jamming Comms?? Well I never.
Strictly speaking we should be paying them for saving us from Grant Shapops for a few minutes I suppose…
What happened then? There was no video or link.
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Old 16th Mar 2024, 09:27
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"There was no 'incident'. Just a hysterically inaccurate media story about something that has been happening for months."


It's Shappes - never a man to miss an opportunity to grab a headline (or photo edit out his previous leader) - if it hadn't been the vile Russians it would have been "thunderstorms", or balloons, or little green men................
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Old 16th Mar 2024, 09:32
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
It's Shappes - never a man to miss an opportunity to grab a headline (or photo edit out his previous leader) - if it hadn't been the vile Russians it would have been "thunderstorms", or balloons, or little green men................
You talk yet say nothing. Why?
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Old 16th Mar 2024, 10:11
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Originally Posted by falcon900
You tell me.
I was responding to the naivety of the reporting which suggested that they were “blind”.
More to the point, the reporting that it couldn’t have happened to Air Force One ( which I believe it could not). I suspect it couldn’t have happened to the Voyager either. But yes , give the defence secretary a thrill by flying close to Russian airspace in essentially a business jet to save a few bob, and this is what will happen.
How the incident comes to be in the public domain might seem like a good question to some people too.
The answer on public domain is that there were journos on board. The hype is all about specific targeting of the aircraft, which is nonsense, as is the sensationalist language. And if the journos hadn’t known, a helpful Spad would probably have put them in the picture as a means of bigging up their man (tough task).

As others have pointed out, commercial traffic has been subject to this for some years now as spillover from Russian ops in Syria, Ukraine and Black Sea. The difference now is that the capability has moved from simple jamming to spoofing, which the major OEMs are working to prevent. The mil ops community has just not talked about it, for obvious reasons, but you can assume there is no immunity from receipt of a broadcast jam/spoof signal, the effects of that signal being unique to the system involved.

We can but hope the direct experience gives SofS a bit more empathy when it comes to agreeing procurement proposals.
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Old 16th Mar 2024, 11:53
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Perhaps some of our older colleagues could highlight the “mekoning” from the Cold War to remind us how this used to be a very real and deadly pastime.
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Old 16th Mar 2024, 13:51
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Indeed! Mekoning (or more correctly maeconing) was the re-broadcasting of navigation signals from a different location, to confuse unwary chaps. The classic case in the ‘70’s was an NDB (I think) in northern Germany that was “cloned” by the naughty Ruskies and re-broadcast at higher power to tempt the boys to head too far East.

As I remember, it caused quite a few “Brass Monkey” shouts but never an actual whoopsie.

Ah, heady days!

Mog
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Old 16th Mar 2024, 14:40
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Not always a happy outcome - a C-130 was shot down by 4 MiGs over Armenia in September 1958 having probably been mekon'd into Sov airspace.
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Old 16th Mar 2024, 18:13
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Originally Posted by Thud_and_Blunder
Not always a happy outcome - a C-130 was shot down by 4 MiGs over Armenia in September 1958 having probably been mekon'd into Sov airspace.
I recall reading about that one in 'RAF Flying Review' in the late ''50s or early '60s.
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