Originally Posted by Ninthace
(Post 11385648)
Of course you have to have an air stream going where you want to go, at a suitable altitude to maintain a covert presence and you have to know where the airstream is. How feasible is that?
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Originally Posted by DodgyGeezer
(Post 11386079)
Quite easy. The science dealing with the prediction of upper atmosphere winds is part of Meteorology...
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And yet apparently they have been coming over the United States for years now...without NORAD or the USAF being aware of it.
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Originally Posted by averow
(Post 11386201)
And yet apparently they have been coming over the United States for years now...without NORAD or the USAF being aware of it.
I see in reports this AM in parts of the MSM that it's now being claimed the balloon was actually tracked from launch.. https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...e-spy-balloons |
Originally Posted by averow
(Post 11386201)
And yet apparently they have been coming over the United States for years now...without NORAD or the USAF being aware of it.
Vulcans managed to enter US airspace not once but twice! |
Two balloons with equal buoyancy launched from the same spot at the same time will very rapidly diverge, regardless of being at very similar heights at any one time. This is due to the inherent randomness of what might be generalised as turbulence in pseudo horizontal directions. Not that the divergence would be massive but it would increase with time and travel.
I have done the experiment professionally with three balloons on several occasions. This implies that, however good the upper wind is known and forecast, precise "targeting" of a track to achieve an aiming point is beyond science unless the balloon has some means of applying horizontal thrust, thus increasing weight and decreasing payload. |
I agree, over that distance, without some form of propulsion, I think "beyond science" is understating it!
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Originally Posted by langleybaston
(Post 11386309)
Two balloons with equal buoyancy launched from the same spot at the same time will very rapidly diverge, regardless of being at very similar heights at any one time. This is due to the inherent randomness of what might be generalised as turbulence in pseudo horizontal directions. Not that the divergence would be massive but it would increase with time and travel.
I have done the experiment professionally with three balloons on several occasions. This implies that, however good the upper wind is known and forecast, precise "targeting" of a track to achieve an aiming point is beyond science unless the balloon has some means of applying horizontal thrust, thus increasing weight and decreasing payload. |
Jet streams involve clear air turbulence, so I was told. How does it feel at zero true air speed?
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Originally Posted by Petit-Lion
(Post 11386418)
Jet streams involve clear air turbulence, so I was told. How does it feel at zero true air speed?
The best practical answer might come from a hot air ballooner or a glider pilot near the stall in wind sheer conditions. Unpleasant at an informed guess. I am white knuckle self loading freight, having lectured on "Met. hazards to aviation" for three years. Too much information as they say. |
Originally Posted by Petit-Lion
(Post 11386418)
Jet streams involve clear air turbulence, so I was told. How does it feel at zero true air speed?
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Originally Posted by 212man
(Post 11386463)
I don’t think you have CAT in the jetstream. More in the boundary layers.
CAT "more likely" on top, bottom and sides of jet, and where jet changes direction sharply such as trough or even ridge. Looking for CAT reported by one aircraft by another aircraft has been likened to finding one fish in a shoal in an ocean. I was privileged to work for a pioneer in post-WW II study of CAT. I think modern airborne radar at the right wavelengths will be the long term solution for a given flight ............ forecasting is much better than it was but will never be a silver bullet. Modern aircrew will know more about the vagaries of CAT than a long-retired forecaster. I firmly believe in keeping my seat belt and flies closed on a flight. A visit to the loo will bring on severe CAT without fail. |
There is a sure fire way of finding CAT. Start serving drinks in the cabin. Never fails on the flights I have been on.
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Originally Posted by Ninthace
(Post 11386532)
There is a sure fire way of finding CAT. Start serving drinks in the cabin. Never fails on the flights I have been on.
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US intel assessing possibility that Chinese spy balloon’s path over US was accidental
Who'd have thought it ? |
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
(Post 11386694)
US intel assessing possibility that Chinese spy balloon’s path over US was accidental
Who'd have thought it ? |
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
(Post 11386694)
US intel assessing possibility that Chinese spy balloon’s path over US was accidental
Who'd have thought it ? |
Now that was funny! :ok:
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Originally Posted by langleybaston
(Post 11386437)
CAT is not necessarily a feature of jet streams, and has a variety of causes from the surface upwards.
The best practical answer might come from a hot air ballooner or a glider pilot near the stall in wind sheer conditions. Unpleasant at an informed guess. I am white knuckle self loading freight, having lectured on "Met. hazards to aviation" for three years. Too much information as they say. I have done a lot of glider-towing in lee-wave conditions at Cowley Alberta, which is Canada's premier wave-soaring location*. Last October, I had some of the most severe CAT I have ever experienced, such that I am debating wearing a parachute in future! We normally try to tow towards the lower, southern end of the Livingstone Range, which generates the wave, to try and avoid the rotor turbulence. However, on two occasions, very experienced glider pilots had to release because they had lost control and on another flight, I watched my pen floating in front of me for several seconds! A very experienced tow-pilot at my club used to say "The rotor is not rough, unless you get rolled inverted!" * See Cowley Canada's Diamond mine. There is a panorama on this page which shows the wooded lower ridge we aim for in order to minimize turbulence. |
Originally Posted by India Four Two
(Post 11387850)
Your informed guess is correct. :E
I have done a lot of glider-towing in lee-wave conditions at Cowley Alberta, which is Canada's premier wave-soaring location*. Last October, I had some of the most severe CAT I have ever experienced, such that I am debating wearing a parachute in future! We normally try to tow towards the lower, southern end of the Livingstone Range, which generates the wave, to try and avoid the rotor turbulence. However, on two occasions, very experienced glider pilots had to release because they had lost control and on another flight, I watched my pen floating in front of me for several seconds! A very experienced tow-pilot at my club used to say "The rotor is not rough, unless you get rolled inverted!" * See Cowley Canada's Diamond mine. There is a panorama on this page which shows the wooded lower ridge we aim for in order to minimize turbulence. |
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