At the time that this was set, my late father was in the first siege of Tobruk, wounded there, and then spent time in the desert thereafter, (before being posted to India and Burma). He came across some of the Long Range Desert Group, (in circumstances he would not talk about,) and told me that they were a bunch of maniacs. He said he would believe ANYTHING reported of them, no matter how seemingly crazy, criminal, impossible or stupid.

Even today, the people who are engaged in these sort of roles are maniacs, as normal people are unlikely to want do them!

I'm just grateful we have them on our side.

Trouble is - people are quick to say 'it's not a documentary' - but the programme was made using real peoples names and this one in particular seemed intent on blackening Paddy Maynes character and perpetuating some myths about his miltary career,he was indeed a complex person but apparently well educated,well read and planned things out very carefully when possible.Sure he was no angel but I think it very unfair to present a role in a TV series using real peoples names and not to present the true facts - or at least not exaggerate character to over dramatise the role/narrative.
With the SAS/LRDG there was no need to exaggerate anything,real events were exciting enough.The action scenes I thought were reasonably accurately presented
Not a new thing with film makers of course - one of the worst being how Private Hook was portrayed in 'Zulu' - his family were really upset by it.

When I was on 152 Sqn in Bahrain from 1959 to 1961 I used to fly a Twin Pioneer to near the top of the Jebel Akhdar in Oman to the Sultans Armed Forces camp at Saiq where ex SAS Major John Cooper was the CO. According to regs, set by RAF Persian Gulf, we were not allowed to shut down our engines on the top of the Jebel in case we had any starting problems. Night stopping at Izmir, lower down, was hot and boring, and the risk of land mines was dangerous, so quietly I began to night-stop at Saiq. From around 1400 when the hot air became too rough and dangerous for further lifts into Saiq until 0700 the next morning. Many enjoyable evenings spent with John, the only European, at Saiq, having a few cold beers are still very happy memories.

As a side note, I’ll mention the less well known Popski’s Private Army
My father had one of the books on the PPA, which I read avidly (and often!) in my youth.
Lieutenant-Colonel Vladimir Peniakoff DSO MC, I salute you and your men.

In 1967 I was working as a civil engineer at Misurata in Libya. As part of my team I had four chainmen (these are the chaps who hold the staff while the engineer fiddles about with his theodolite). Being Arabia they were all called Mohammed so I named them wahed, thnene, telleta and arraba which is as near as I ever got to one to four in Arabic. Anyway one day "Number 3", who was a tall well-built chap, came to the site hut and asked for four days leave to go to Benghazi, so i signed his chit and off he went. He duly reappeared four days later looking rather dishevelled and considerably paler than when he left. When i asked him what had happened his reply was "They still daft bastards,they still drink too much !". "They" turned out to be the SAS who were passing through Libya,possibly via El Adem (?) and had decided to have a get-together with some of the Arab desert scouts of the LRDG of whom "Number 3" was one. Apparently his speciality was inserting explosive devices in Rommel's kit,, lighting the blue touch paper and melting away in to the desert..I must confess I viewed him a different light thereafter (and he was a good chainman!).

I find the offense to swearing amusing, as if it somehow just appeared in the last decade or two! The fact that more traditional movies etc don’t include it by no means reflects reality. https://www.bl.uk/world-war-one/articles/swearing

I would read the titles that it is mainly based on events that happen. So therefore is not a documentary. Of course Mayne was intelligent, he played Union for a start. But it was mentioned in the documentary shown 5 years ago they he was almost psychopathic in his tendanciies. That was from guys that served with him. .

Saintsman @ 82
If you had worked with, and knew any of " the people who are engaged in these sort of roles are maniacs" you would know you are talking B******s.
Doing things that you and I would not have the guts to do does NOT make them maniacs!!

Well that is completely missing my point mon ami - the whole sequence of Paddy in prison was complete BS - as I posted earlier,if a writer uses the real names of real people they should do proper research and not overdramatise any scenes around that particular character.
I think it is totally out of order to darken the character of the holder of DSO*** (ie 4 DSO's).
The myths around the man have grown over the years - he certainly was unorthodox about certain things but as I also posted previously - there was absolutely no need to exaggerate any of the SAS/LRDG story.

Indeed. I have two close colleagues, one an MC and one an MC and CGC. Neither are maniacs.

So who is being accused of fabrication of "Paddy" Mayne being recruited in prison? The story is in David Stirling's biography.

Not being in prison but the extreme violence in prison as displayed during the early part of the series.
I believe that Paddy Maynes own CO cast doubt on his ever having been in prison,Paddy was in trouble for a contretemps with a fellow officer but I am not sure he ever went to prison for it.
Happy to be convinced otherwise - there would be a record of a court martial surely ?

Paddy Mayne
From Army Unit Histories

2nd Lt. 06.03.1939 [87306]
WS/Capt. 21.12.1942
T/Maj. 21.12.1942-06.04.1944
WS/Maj. 07.04.1944
T/Lt.Col. 07.04.1944-(04.1946)
https://www.unithistories.com/officers/orders/dso.gif DSO 24.02.1942 Middle East *
https://www.unithistories.com/officers/orders/dso.gif DSO 21.10.1943 Sicily
https://www.unithistories.com/officers/orders/dso.gif DSO 29.03.1945 France 44
https://www.unithistories.com/officers/orders/dso.gif DSO 11.10.1945 NW Europe 44-45
https://www.unithistories.com/officers/orders/LegH.jpg LegH ? ?
https://www.unithistories.com/officers/orders/CdgG.JPG CdeG ? ?
https://www.unithistories.com/officers/orders/mid.jpg MID 24.02.1942 Middle East

The trouble is there are various versions. Some say Mayne "beat up" or "assaulted" the other officer.

Stirling's version was that he recruited Mayne in prison. Doubt has been cast on this by others since. Regardless the writers of this series didn't invent the prison story to blacken Mayne's character. They have followed the Stirling version after all, he was there?

I doubt Stirling wrote that the prison staff were going to hang Mayne but Paddy beat them all up and walked out.
Surely any officer placed under arrest would normally be confined to room/tent until the decision to CM or 'extra duties' was taken,I suppose under extreme circumstances he might have been put in the guardhouse ?.
I have not read stirling's book so cannot comment on that but there are wildly conflicting stories out there.

Indeed. Stirling's version was that he sought assurance from Mayne that he wouldn't assault him too! Of course no one now knows if that was all just banter?

David Stirling had a bit of a reputation for telling tall stories. Especially involving himself.

Historically inaccurate
 

Anybody notice Paddy Mayne stating that he was going to Burma to fight the Japs ,bit previous as the Japanese had not entered the war in autumn 1941!

To clarify my late father's remarks on the LRDG members: he used the word 'maniac' in the sense that they must have been mad to do what they did, in the way that they did it. (My father knew what he was talking about: he had himself won the MC in the desert at Tobruk just before his 21st birthday by capturing 3 machine gun posts with just 6 men remaining from an initial attacking force of over 100 men.)

That was actually said during the series.
A couple of times it was pointed out to Mayne that we weren’t yet at war with the Japanese.
His reply was ‘We will be’
You must have missed it!

Scratch the surface of Stirlings character and a different story might appear.
Gavin Mortimer has written a book called 'The Phoney Major' (as opposed to the phantom major),Gavin has been researching the SAS/LRDG/Stirling/Mayne for 25 years.
The subject TV series was obviously written using the gospel according to David Stirling which actually might be ffffffairly inaccurate (to say the least).
If you have 85 minutes to spare - might be worth watching this youtube video where Gavin is asked to talk about the real story of the SAS/LRDG/Stirling/Mayne.
I have not watched much of it yet but looks interesting for anybody interested in the real Paddy Mayne etc.

You obviously missed the piece of dialogue where the actor playing Stirling told an acquaintance that Paddy was going to Burma and ,when his acquaintance replied “but we’re not at war with the Japanese?” replied “we will be when Paddy gets there!”

The TV series was based on the Ben Macintyre book SAS Rogue Warriors.

Absolutely Pr00ne - but the screenplay followed D Stirlings version of 'history' .

Mike Sadler, 102, who lives at Arlington Manor Care Home, is the last surviving founding member of the SAS.

Mike first entered the SAS in 1941, becoming the unit's top navigator & setting up the SAS intelligence unit. He was part of the 1st successful raid on Wadi Tamet airfield.


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....077d9d516.jpeg

Incredibly, with what he went through, still alive. 102! Sadly now blind?

Link from Ben MacIntyre documentary. Mike Sadler talks about Paddy Mayne and the grenade scene adapted later by the drama series.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04tm4r3

Blair Mayne is still a legend in his home town of Newtownards where he is buried in Movilla Abbey, four miles from my home. He joined the Royal Ulster Rifles at the outbreak of war and was posted for initial training at St Patrick's Barracks, Ballymena, where he met brothers Ambrose and Eoin McGonigal, who had grown up in Belfast. All progressed to Commando units. Eoin was killed behind enemy lines in Libya, Ambrose became as deadly a warrior as Mayne. Post-war both men joined the legal profession, but while McGonigal made a successful transition to civilian life, Mayne could not, and the Newtownards folk came to dread his massive figure with its free-flying fists.

Numerous drunken attacks were hushed up, but the sequel came in 1955 when Mayne, returning from a party, crashed his Riley car into a farm vehicle in the town. Many heard the crash but nobody approached the figure slumped in the driver's seat lest it should arise and smite them as usually happened. The steering column had probably ruptured his aorta so he would have died in seconds. Today his statue stands in Conway Square and Blair Mayne Road runs past his former family home.

McGonigal became a QC and later Lord Chief Justice of Northern Ireland. A remote and distant figure, the most powerful presence I have ever encountered before or since, he was willing to help youngsters and helped this novice court reporter with legal details of an important but complicated case. Thereafter he became almost approachable until the day I dared to mention Blair Mayne, possibly because we had reported the anniversary of his death. His scowl was so fierce that I can't remember his few words but I gathered that some men could make the transition to civil life, others could not.

As a judge he was much feared by barristers who appeared before him and who knew him as The Black Prince. The late Dick Ferguson QC said he felt on edge, "you half expected that he might pull a Uzi from under his robes".

His grandson Patric McGonigal has just completed a fascinating and superbly researched biography of Ambrose and his relationships with Mayne and other warriors: Special Forces, Brothers in Arms, published by Pen & Sword. One wonders whether we shall ever see the likes of these men again.

A remarkable photo of 21 survivors of first SAS parachute drop, from 55 who dropped into worst storm in Cyrenaica in memory OTD, Nov. 1941 #WW2
Led by David Stirling, Paddy is pictured in centre (without headgear) Lessons were hard learned.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....cc72319db.jpeg

I hadn't realised Stirling was so tall, he looks huge in that phot.

foolhardy
It seemed to me a totally foolhardy mission to satisfy Stirling's ambition. An unnecessary waste of life.

6 ' 4.5 '' apparently. which was very tall in those days.
ISTR His brother Bill Stirling was 6' 6'' and was also instrumental in setting up the SAS (I believe he did most of the original Officer recruitment - inc Paddy Mayne,without visiting a prison ;) ) but rarely ever got a mention in David Stirling's 'History of the SAS'
In the early days SAS was reputed to mean 'Stirling and Stirling' :)

Irrespective of the accuracy of the portrayal of these events, in the series or the many books, it was wartime and we were struggling. In wartime one mans "foolhardy" is another mans "heroic". Many would see the Dambusters as a foolhardy raid, that killed a similar percentage of its warriors and achieved very little. That's as maybe...it was a raid of daring ingenuity, skill and courage. As were many of the actions of the SAS in North Africa, regardless of the accuracy of the accounts and the motivations of the men involved.

The most capable soldier in the field was Rommel and they helped **** him up. Well done them.

Yes, but that night's mission ultimately failed, to be completed some nights later. There didn't seem to be any tactical or strategic imperative for them to go on that stormy night.

The TV version is somewhat over dramatised - the weather before they took off was fine - it was only as they neared the target area that the weather deteriorated badly,many people suffered landing injuries inc Stirling and Mayne - Mayne was invalided out after the war due to a hidden back injury - possibly caused by this para drop ??

It may not be historically accurate but it’s produced for the public at large and is certainly based on fact. Personally I have enjoyed the series and if nothing else it has prompted me to learn more about Stirling, Mayne, Lewis, Carter et al

I feel much the same, it's entertainment, after all, not a treatise on historical facts. It's described by the BBC as being "inspired by true events", after all. My cousin was in the SBS and from what little he told me that unit was exceptionally well trained and highly professional, and I rather think that the SAS is the same. There is a popular view that they are a bunch of lunatics with their self-preservation gene removed, a view the TV series tends to support, but I doubt they would have achieved 1/10th of what they did if that was the case.

Some of them were undoubtedly brilliant, and took a great deal of care to ensure every op was as well researched as possible and that they had the very best kit available. I knew an armourer years ago that gave an insight into the care taken to ensure that every bit of kit they had was the best available, even if that meant ignoring all the normal procurement processes, or even obtaining kit from states that were not exactly seen as being allies of the UK. The impression I gained was that they were tough, but very far from being reckless. This aspect doesn't come across in the TV series, but then the TV series is intended to be entertainment, nothing more.

I guess dramatics trumps technical advisors at times. Why would the soldiers let themselves get dragged all over the desert floor or try to restrain their billowing parachutes when all they had to do was use the harness quick-release box? Disrespect of ORs to officers was unbelievable too (see the episode in which Stirling on crutches tried to enter the HQ building without a pass). Me, I prefer the gritty black & white '50s British WWII films, even if the special effects weren't up to today's CGI). I'll be in a minority there.

The Dam Busters has lasted well so I'm with you Steve.

Just hitting the ground sideyways in a (say) 30mph breeze might be enough to cause injuries on rough ground I guess,and most of the guys probably not very experienced jumpers.
As to the guard at HQ - add that to his rifle slung over right shoulder and saluting with left hand LOL (i think that was in that scene ?)