Moskva down
 

A confirmation re the hitting of the Moskva, but again it’s from a Ukrainian source so until verified I remain sceptical, after all we were told about the massive helicopter destruction that we never saw.


She was incidentally filmed off Sevastapol on the 10th, I saw it the other day.

Ship badly damaged and abandoned due to ammo accident according to Russian MOD. Mr Iceman says........

RT are confirming as well
https://www.rt.com/russia/553838-rus...ast-black-sea/

Reports now she has sunk morse signals reporting her sinking have stopped and several rescue ships in the area.

I found rattman's RT link above informative in the sense that to a certain degree they allow opposing views there, even from rabid anti-Russian posters! This tells me that they are making an effort to appear unbiased, which can also be said conversely of the BBC, where the bias is there but hidden.

(RT used to be a regular source of alternative information, but I stopped watching it many years ago in the UK when the pervasive green began to feel like kryptonite, eating at my bones.)

Nutty,

That must have been some "ammunition fire".....definitely not small arms stuff for sure.

Missile Reloads gone bad somehow....maybe?

Or...just one Missile arriving courtesy of the Ukraine Military perhaps.

Or more likely, a missile hit set off an ammo magazine. So they wouldn't be lying, just not telling all the story. Our press is rather expert at that...

If like most normal people you're not into Stamp collecting, you would not be aware that the Ukrainian Post office issued a new Stamp yesterday and yes the ship on the stamp is the Flagship of the Black Sea Fleet!!!

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....ef9af90da6.png

And now that the Moskva is either sunk or a smoking hulk, one of the inner circle must realise that Putin has nowhere to turn. The nuclear chain of command will have enough insight to realise what has happened and that there is no material risk to the homeland from the West. No sane individual will push the button. Is there someone brave enough to kill Putin, even if they too lose their life in the process ?

More likely a "Sheffield" moment - when a lot of people outside the military realise they haven't embarked on a walk in the park but that serious damage is going to be done. The question is do you stop or decide to slug it out

I think the difference is the open government reporting to the country of the Thatcher government in 1982 re the loss of Sheffield versus the Russian population slowly beginning to realise (maybe, hopefully) that Putin has been misleading them about what is actually going on in Ukraine., that, as you rightly say, it isn't a walk in the park, that the body count likely just went up by over 500 crew and that Putin has taken Russia into an unjust war that he can't possibly win.

I said many posts ago that the only way out to save face for Russia is for Putin's illness to become obviously worse so he can be removed and then blamed for poor decisions due to ill-health. The ultimate scapegoat.

That allows for full withdrawal and a negotiated settlement, probably returning Crimea to Ukraine control.

At first I assumed the missile successfully fired on the Moskva was the Harpoon which Ukraine had asked for from Britain. I had not heard of the Neptune until I found this . Ukraine is fighting Europe's battle but perhaps she should ask Comrade Kim for some of his ample weaponry as well?

I'm not convinced. If the Kremlin has managed to persuade many of the Russian people that they're fighting a just and necessary war, wouldn't the losses just be portrayed as evil Ukranian Nazis slaying noble Russian warriors, further justifying the need to liberate Ukraine?

Weirdly enough, a few days back on Twitter I speculated about an attack on a Russian capital ship along the lines that the Ukrainians reportedly executed i.e. busy up their air picture with a threatening air asset, then sneak in an ASM or two while they were distracted.

Apparently the weather was also a factor - a storm which covered both the Ukrainian's preparation on the shore, and chopped up the sea making detection of a sea skimming weapon more difficult.

All in all a superb attack.

FWIW a USAF KC135 has been loitering over the extreme east of Romania for the past hour or two, I'm guessing supporting whatever is trying to take a pic of the Moskva or the smoking patch of ocean where it sank.

This will have an effect if the Ukrainians are provided with suitable weaponry to make the strikes.
Nevertheless, as the Ukrainians have apparently got their Neptuns working, this may well mean farewell to the Russian Black Sea fleet in the near future.

was also a nato E3 same place around the time of the strike, theoretically could have had range to supply targetting data, but if they baited it with a TB2 nato could keep its hands clean

The latest rumors coming from the russian side is that moskva's systems were jammed by F-18G's but still managed to intercept 4 or the 6 neptunes incoming. Personally think its BS because it would be provocative from the US and NATO to do that. The other slightly related rumor is that a C-40 clipper landed in odessa a few days ago under heavy electronic interference (F-18G's ?). It unloaded penguin mk2's then took off

What range would Russian ships have to close to in order to present a credible threat to land forces in support of an amphibious assault?

Intriguing - the spotterverse has been alive with chatter about the presence of various NATO aircraft (Rivet Joint etc) over eastern Romania for the past few days. Coincidence?

My assumption was that they were trying to get a handle on Russia's activities around Kherson and Mikoleiv

I'm guessing naval gunfire/rocketry range so something 20km or less?

The aforementioned KC135 has just come off station and is heading back NW. Hopefully whatever recon asset it was supporting is heading back home too with a 1 hour order for SuperSnaps...

Stamdard Russian BS, amazing Russian weapons impersonating a smoldering wreck.

Another victory, huzzah.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....a7d0ae6fe.jpeg

I don't know if this map is trustworthy https://liveuamap.com/en/2022/14-apr...ire-at-cruiser but seems the ship was a long way from home and the wrong side of Odesa really.
/sarc on
Anyway it seems the Russians did a great job evacuating the 500 crew completely in 2 meter seas @ night in a short time, and already getting some tug ( I guess from sevastopol 170 miles away) and taking on tow a smouldering hulk perhaps still very dangerous
/sarc off

Even before this all kicked off the RJs, CSs and KCs etc were out there daily. They fly over us outbound so hear/see them all the time, 7 days a week. And, before anyone shouts "OPSEC" at me, FR24 clearly shows many of them (clearly not all by a long way) up from various bases - so NATO clearly wants some of them to be seen - and where they come from - to send that message out too! ;) Black Sea, Romania, Poland, Lithuania, the Baltic..... and from all over Europe.... The E-3s will be having a full-time job just keeping tabs of all that friendly activity. But I'm sure the E-3s have other "interests" too. :ok:

OK, I'll get my anorak off........ :p

PS. Talk of the devil, just heard the next KC-10 off on its next trip. Again, on FR24. Anorak really off now! Byeeee! H 'n' H

It was more the concentration of effort in this particular area which piqued people's interest.

Latest reports from Turkish news are that Moskva sent out an SOS at 0105.

At 0114 she rolled on her side and at 0145 lost all electric power.

At 0200 a Turkish ship lay alongside and started evacuating sailors from the hill and the water, rescuing a total of 54 men.

At 0300 she is reported to have sunk. Rescue operations continue.

Total reported number of crew is 510.

Ah, it's always looked busy over there when I've looked. Clearly, my anorak is a cheap, poor quality one!!!! I must upgrade it to a "Full Geek Mode" one! I stand re-educated re your original post. :ok::ok::ok: Cheers, H 'n' H

Conditions for SAR are poor.

It probably would if Putin had admitted that the loss of the ship was due to attack by Ukraine Forces but the party line seems to be that an on board fire triggered an amunition explosion. So Putin would first have to admit to the Russian people that he lied, or at the very least, his information was unreliable.

An onboard fire and ammunition detonation is not incompatible with a missile hit.

Pretty grim stuff. Could be the biggest mass casualty event of the conflict to date.

The Russian MOD claims the fires are out the Moskva is under tow, Perhaps she will sink under tow? Any pictures from the Turks to corroborate?

Edit to add: the only Turkish source i could find was on reddit. The video had been with been deleted amid claims of fakery. What is your source ORAC?

Once again this imputes that the Russians believe everything they are told which is, imo, far from the truth. The older generations know that lies of the black is white type were the norm pre 1990, and the younger people will obviously have noticed the differences between what the state says and what they are reading/hearing from the Web. If it is publicised that the Moskwa has been lost/badly damaged off Odessa, I don't think many will be sucked in by the "fire on board" story as if it had nothing to do with the "special operation". If there have been large numbers of casualties, then the official story of " all crew evacuated " will unravel pdq because many of the crew's families will live in the home port area and there will be a concentrated upswell of questioning/outcry/funerals.

Families will probably know the truth when the ship fails to come home. Latest reports are she caught fire, ammunition went up, she turned turtle and sank along with 400 or so of her crew.

When K141 Kursk sank due to own torpedoes exploding, the Russkies blamed it on a "foreign sub".
Now as Moskva is hit by foreign missiles, the Russians say it was their own ammunition that exploded.

They do have consistency there.

I am inclined to agree with you regarding the Russian people not believeing the fire on board story. But will enough people not believe Putin to start undermining his authority?

John Kirby, Pentagon press secretary on CNN says there was one or more explosions and Moskva is making its own way slowly and possibly heading towards Sevastopol as it is heading in that direction. With it being the flag ship I take it they may have lost that command element of the fleet temporarily.

That would make sense because you wouldn’t want to limp into a Russian port shot to sh*t as it would get around and would do moral no good.

Other reports say a Navy Admiral in Russia has been arrested.

ORAC
👍👍
Mr Mac