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-   -   Alleged UFO or UAP, 1990, Calvine, Scotland (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/644967-alleged-ufo-uap-1990-calvine-scotland.html)

Matthew Illsley 3rd Feb 2022 10:18

Alleged UFO or UAP, 1990, Calvine, Scotland
 
​​​​​​I'm a researcher assisting Dr David Clarke of Sheffield Hallam University.

On or around 4th August 1990, an unidentified, "diamond-shaped" aircraft was photographed flying beside a Harrier jump jet near Calvine, Scotland, having possibly used the Machrihanish U.S. air base.

The negatives were passed to the Daily Record newspaper (Scotland’s biggest tabloid) which quickly handed them to the Ministry of Defence. After being twice interviewed by the military, the photographer (likely a deer poacher) has never again come forward and his identity is unknown, the negatives have never been located (and have likely been destroyed), and the newspaper itself never ran the story (likely because the Daily Record's editor in 1990 was himself a member of what today is known as the Defence and Security Media Advisory Committee, the body which issues "do not publish" notices to the media).

The MoD conducted at least 2 investigations into the photos in both 1990 and 1992. Declassified letters written on 18th and 22nd December 1992 by the British Air Attaché in Washington D.C. state that the UK's Defence Intelligence Staff contacted the DIA & CIA, ‘to ask if the United States had anything flying off Machrihanish,’ and that the best of the 6 photos was to be taken to the USA in January 1993, ‘so that both intelligence communities can look at it together.'

Two witnesses have independently confirmed that a copy of the best of the 6 photos was blown-up to poster size and pinned to the wall in the Secretariat Air Staff office for several years in the early 1990s, but that a positive declaration of the craft’s identity was never made.

Twelve former RAF Harrier pilots from the period in question have also told us that they never heard of this incident during their careers, and that tallies with our belief that the Harrier was itself American and flying from Machrihanish.

The case files that the MoD saw fit to preserve and release are very limited and highly disorganised. They contain no negatives, no photos, no vu-foils, and no analysis reports related to this case, all of which at one time are known to have existed. What they do contain is a very low-resolution scan of a fax of a photocopy of part of just 1 of the 6 photos, plus a couple of pages of heavily redacted “minutes”. Moreover, in January 2020, the MoD contacted The National Archives and successfully arranged for the redactions in the file to remain in place until 2076.

If anyone therefore has any relevant information on this matter, Dr Clarke and I would be very grateful to hear from you.

Thank you.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....106fd56b5f.jpg


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....ef45afd3df.jpg


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....f4aa1328af.jpg



https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....36feb85076.jpg







India Four Two 5th Feb 2022 06:32

Good luck, Matthew. It sounds like an interesting story.

Based on my one visit to Macrihanish as supernumerary crew on a Lyneham C-130, you should probably talk to the Campbeltown fish merchants. When I was there, there were several transport aircraft of various sizes, picking up orders of fish, during their "practice diversions". ;)

While waiting for our fish to arrive, the captain kept one engine running, rather than trust the APU, because he wasn't supposed to be there!

Spunky Monkey 5th Feb 2022 19:17

Why would a deer poacher be carrying a camera?

SpringHeeledJack 6th Feb 2022 05:24

If the 'Harrier' was an AV-8 of the USMC, that would lead me to think that the accompanying mystery craft would have been of terrestrial origin and from the USA. Allegedly Macrihanish was used for other test-flights of the enigmatic Aurora spotted by that ex-observer corps chap on an oil-rig some time in the early-90's, so perhaps this was another such flight with an accompanying aircraft to muddy the radar returns should any ATC become overly interested.

Matthew Illsley 6th Feb 2022 08:35

Poaching
 
Thank you to everyone who replied. We understood initially that the men were out walking, but it was then suggested to us by a senior ex-military source that they had been poaching, hence the camera. They were out in the middle of nowhere on a remote, private, 90,000-acre deer reserve at dusk, having driven 13 miles to get there. The camera was to capture a shot of they bagged a prize, but they allegedly got more than they bargained for.

chevvron 6th Feb 2022 08:43

There were several other UFO sightings near Macrihanish in about 1989 and later but these were all triangular not diamond shaped.

Matthew Illsley 6th Feb 2022 08:53


Originally Posted by SpringHeeledJack (Post 11180421)
llegedly Macrihanish was used for other test-flights of the enigmatic Aurora spotted by that ex-observer corps chap on an oil-rig some time in the early-90's, so perhaps this was another such flight with an accompanying aircraft to muddy the radar returns should any ATC become overly interested.

Yes, we agree this is a distinct possibility. The odd thing was, the chief witness described the Harrier overflying from south to north at high altitude the stationary, hovering UFO (and we use that term strictly in a literal non-alien sense), and then a few minutes later, presumably the same Harrier came from the north and circled the UFO several times before leaving again. The UFO then took off vertically (allegedly).

treadigraph 6th Feb 2022 09:04

Looking at the "photograph", I can't help but think F-117 - front looks very similar, perhaps with some form of shadowed condensation creating an illusion for the rear of the diamond? I note the text in the first image added by Senior Pilot says that it was "stationary" but it seems credible to me that the poachers, er, walkers have either got their story wrong or embellished it a bit. I mean, that's never happened before! :}

Timelord 6th Feb 2022 16:04

I was shown an original print of this photo in the course of my duties around that time. As a UFO sceptic I was utterly gobsmacked. It wasn’t an F117 (and why would an F117 be at low level?) , or any aircraft revealed before or since. I had no explanation for it and have been a lot less sceptical since!

It was noted at the time that it was taken on a Saturday when, as we know, no routine FJ LL flying takes place.

dervish 6th Feb 2022 16:46

Well, the letter is genuine. Check out the spelling.

Matthew Illsley 6th Feb 2022 17:19


Originally Posted by Timelord (Post 11180605)
I was shown an original print of this photo in the course of my duties around that time. As a UFO sceptic I was utterly gobsmacked. It wasn’t an F117 (and why would an F117 be at low level?) , or any aircraft revealed before or since. I had no explanation for it and have been a lot less sceptical since!

It was noted at the time that it was taken on a Saturday when, as we know, no routine FJ LL flying takes place.

Hi Timelord. Thank you so much for your post. I have messaged you directly through PPRUNE. Would you check your inbox, please? Thanks again.

Yellow Sun 6th Feb 2022 17:31

Dr David Clarke has quite an interesting profile. It's not too difficult to see that his interest is serious but he's certainly not a ufologist. If you wish to delve deeper into this sort of thing I would recommend Michael Shermer's book as a primer.


They were out in the middle of nowhere on a remote, private, 90,000-acre deer reserve at dusk, having driven 13 miles to get there. The camera was to capture a shot of they bagged a prize, but they allegedly got more than they bargained for.
Poachers don't take photos.

YS

bobward 6th Feb 2022 17:35

Looking at the 'defensive lines to take' in the original post, reminds me of the classic Yes Minister series.
Any time they wanted to trash a report certain lines were taken. Some of the statements in the quote above look very familiar.....
Remember the Official Secrets Act is not to protect secrets: it protects officials.
According to Sir Humphrey, try one or other of the following:
It leaves important questions unanswered;
Much of the evidence is inconclusive;
Certain findings are contradictory;
Some of the main findings have been questioned (if not, question them yourself)



Thinking back to air shows (remember those?). Every time a 'low observable' aircraft flew past it would have a couple of F15's in close escort. Maybe the same applied in the case above.

Matthew Illsley 6th Feb 2022 18:06


Originally Posted by Yellow Sun (Post 11180637)
Poachers don't take photos.

YS

Well, I would be more than happy to hear from you if you were in some way involved and know otherwise, but on this point we have a senior former defence intelligence source who interviewed the witnesses at the time, and we're only repeating what he says they were doing. They initially told the RAF they were out walking, but who takes a camera out on a walk at 8.30pm?

unmanned_droid 6th Feb 2022 19:14

The most sus thing about all of this is US Harriers operating from RAF Machrihanish. I know there is/was a US presence there, however a US harrier det would have been recorded somewhere, either photographically or on paper. I see you posted the same thing on fightercontrol - someone there probably has logs.

The 'photo' looks pretty iffy. Would not trust it at all.

The shape vaguely resembles some projects which could have looked like 'pumpkin seeds' but they were for very fast applications.

The whole thing seems like a cover for a F-117 Det or the thing that supposedly worked with them. Visits of the F-117 to the UK are rumoured to have happened in this period and a little before. An F-117 attended Mildenhall Air Fete in 92, which I think is the first acknowledged public visit?

Maoraigh1 6th Feb 2022 19:27

Calvine - off the A9? Nowhere near Cambeltown. Speculation it was operating from there. there.
August 4, it would be light at 8.30 PM BST there. Returning from a walk with a camera would not be unusual.

Matthew Illsley 6th Feb 2022 19:54


Originally Posted by Timelord (Post 11180605)
I was shown an original print of this photo in the course of my duties around that time. As a UFO sceptic I was utterly gobsmacked. It wasn’t an F117 (and why would an F117 be at low level?) , or any aircraft revealed before or since. I had no explanation for it and have been a lot less sceptical since!

It was noted at the time that it was taken on a Saturday when, as we know, no routine FJ LL flying takes place.

Hi Timelord,

For no reason I can fathom (I'm a newbie?), PPRUNE is allowing me to have just 1 message on the system, and that's for my inbox, outbox, etc. As I had sent you 1 message, I received an email saying it had refused to accept your 1 message to me. Very helpful.

Dan Gerous 6th Feb 2022 19:56

Never been to Machrihanish, but looking on gaggle earth, there's a town at one end of the runway, a golf course at the other, and plenty of housing dotted around the airfield, so I find it hard to believe that nobody has seen or heard anything strange going on there over the years.

Lima Juliet 6th Feb 2022 20:49

Looks like a fake to me…

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....30fdaa8a9.jpeg
in fact, it looks like this is a colourised version mocked up by Nick Pope (the chap that thinks he is Mulder out of the X Files :8). [Edit - Pope was an EO grade (now a D grade) in the MOD - equivalent to Flt Lt in RAF terms, ie. Not very senior).

Anyway, let’s look at the facts. The alleged photo was taken in Perthshire which is about 115 miles away from Machrihanish. The base is the other side of Glasgow airspace and so hardly a likely routing. There is no reason to use a crappy Harrier to intercept it either - it’s slow, in 1990 the Shar only had a crappy BLUE FOX radar and the USMC’s APG-65 AV-8Bs weren’t ready until 1993. Anyway, there were no Harriers on QRA back in 1990 - that would have been either F4 Phantoms or Tornado F3. Seeing as 4 Aug 90 was a Saturday then the only assets would have been the QRA intercept jets, the TANSOR tankers, the national standby helos and tactical air mobility aircraft and the various Air Cadet flying activities in Chipmunks and Ventures. No Harriers - in fact, given it was 1990 then the UK’s Harrier GR5s were not even combat capable due to wiring issues in the hard points (hence they didn’t go to Op GRANBY in the following months in 1990) and so that picture above shows a Harrier with tanks which is unlikely. It could be a RN SHar but then again, why send your slowest non-RADAR missile equipped interceptor when you have F4s and F3s that are way faster and more capable than the FRS1? RAF Leuchars with live armed F4s in 1990 is just 50 miles from Calvine, Pitlochry - they are on 10 minutes standby and could be there within 15 minutes of being scrambled from scratch. Also, the UK Low Flying System is normally closed at weekends to fast jet traffic.

Then there is the dubious story of the “Poachers”, how very convenient. It reminds me of the “Surgeon’s Photo” of the Loch Ness Monster. For years Nessie hunters swooned over the most likely photo of the ‘monster’ because it was taken by a respected Surgeon. The photo analysis folks said it was genuine and for years it was the goto picture of Nessie:

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....3a47f6d70.jpeg

Well it was, right up to the point when the Surgeon’s family said it was actually a FAKE. It was a plasticine head stuck on a clockwork toy submarine!


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....844153495.jpeg

There is so much that doesn’t quite add up about the 4 Aug 1990 story. I also find it hard to believe that someone from an intelligent alien race would be flying around the glens on a Saturday without dropping in to speak to the country’s leadership - they’ve come a long way for a mundane smash along the glens!! Again, it could be a trial aircraft, but why would you fly a test and evaluation aircraft around the glens of Pitlochry on a Saturday?

So sadly, using the Occam’s Razor theory then the most likely explanation is a fake. The photo analysis people couldn’t find evidence of tampering (like the Surgeon’s photo) and so they had a flap about in Town and the whole thing has become a legend in itself (just like the 1934 Surgeon’s photo of Nessie that was only revealed as a fake some 60 years later!).

Timelord 6th Feb 2022 20:57

That is a fake. It’s a mocked up reproduction of the actual photo.

Timelord 6th Feb 2022 21:17


Originally Posted by Matthew Illsley (Post 11180697)
Hi Timelord,

For no reason I can fathom (I'm a newbie?), PPRUNE is allowing me to have just 1 message on the system, and that's for my inbox, outbox, etc. As I had sent you 1 message, I received an email saying it had refused to accept your 1 message to me. Very helpful.

Would you mind, therefore, emailing me directly with your original message, please? My address is [email protected] or on Twitter @IllsleyMatthew

I apologise for the inconvenience.

Kind regards,

Matthew

e mailed Dr Clarke, info you.

KPax 6th Feb 2022 21:24

I saw this picture, it was sent to RAF Pitreavie Castle where the picture was given to the Int Cell, we never saw the picture again years later I thought it was an F117 with 2 Harriers.

Lima Juliet 6th Feb 2022 22:15

KPax

That would make more sense. The Gulf War was just starting with the invasion of Kuwait 2 days prior. The F117 hadn’t broken cover then even though the RAF had flown it several times prior. Sqn Ldr Graham Wardell was on the programme and is listed as BANDIT 282 here: F-117 pilots - Bandit Numbers

Sadly, I saw Graham perish executing a loaded roll at an Airshow in Slovakia several years later.

So, the most likely explanation is that a F117 came over and was being escorted in the low flying system by a Harrier (possibly a non-RAF one from the USMC or maybe even BAe? Wardell worked for BAe shortly afterwards). That might by why the file is locked away as it may be linked to a US UK ‘special arrangement memoranda. I know that the RAF considered buying into the Nighthawk Programme.

So no little green men to be seen in all likelihood!

Also, the “Poachers” reported seeing the aircraft go straight up and out of sight. Seeing as it was reportedly low cloud then a weather abort upwards will look like that to the untrained eye.

I should say that I saw with my own eyes the RQ-170 Sentinel well before it became popular knowledge - I had to give my eyes a rub to ensure my eyes weren’t tricking me. For a while after it was subject to much speculation as “The Beast of Kandahar”, but even then it was forbidden to talk about it. There were pictures adorning walls for some time and spotters websites speculated constantly about it. There are aircraft that fly under a cloak of secrecy for many years like F117 and RQ-170, and so it wouldn’t surprise me at all that this is what happened back in Aug 1990.

Timelord 6th Feb 2022 22:23

I have no idea if the picture was genuine, but it wasn’t an F117.

Lima Juliet 6th Feb 2022 22:50

May have been a HAVE BLUE development? Or a version of the so-called “hopeless diamond” of which there is no acknowledgement nor photographs? I still think this is far more likely than an episode of Mulder and Skully!


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....1cfec0f8e.jpeg

Lockheed Martin did patent a design of it

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....993a3fbbc.jpeg
First filed in 1979: https://patents.google.com/patent/US5250950A/en


Matthew Illsley 7th Feb 2022 06:15


Originally Posted by Lima Juliet (Post 11180758)
May have been a HAVE BLUE development? Or a version of the so-called “hopeless diamond” of which there is no acknowledgement nor photographs? I still think this is far more likely than an episode of Mulder and Skully!

Hello,

I also thought this was a likely answer, so I spoke to James C. Goodall about it (I'm not allowed to post URLs, but more is available about him online).

He told me that, 'The two Have Blue technology demonstrators and Senior Prom were never flown outside of the Nellis range. Not sure what [is in the photo], but it wasn’t a Skunk Works aircraft.'

As he is also a recognised expert on the F-117 (according to what it says online), that only added to the mystery.

He suggested it may have been a British-made stealth prototype, or it might have been a stealth variant from another US works, although again, he pointed out that there's no real evidence any such craft were made.

If the Hopeless Diamond thus ever flew real missions, or even came into British airspace, it's one really well-kept secret.



dead_pan 7th Feb 2022 09:11

Dunno about the mystery shape in the photo, but the chase aircraft looks more like a Hunter to my eye.

Matthew Illsley 7th Feb 2022 09:33

Patent
 
Just as another point of potential interest, the diamond-shaped craft shown in file DEFE-31-180-1 appears to possibly have a blunt right-hand end. This could, of course, be many things, but...

It's often derided as being akin to the "blueprint for the Millennium Falcon", but in Salvatore Pais's U.S. Navy patent US10144532B2, the diamond-shaped craft that's depicted there has, 'a frustum or cone on its leading portion of its main body... the frustum is rotatable about its own axis or has the ability to rotate.'

Again, I can't post URLs or images ( :mad: ) but searching online for US10144532B2 will bring it up if anyone is interested.

unmanned_droid 7th Feb 2022 09:53


Originally Posted by Matthew Illsley (Post 11180931)
Just as another point of potential interest, the diamond-shaped craft shown in file DEFE-31-180-1 appears to possibly have a blunt right-hand end. This could, of course, be many things, but...

It's often derided as being akin to the "blueprint for the Millennium Falcon", but in Salvatore Pais's U.S. Navy patent US10144532B2, the diamond-shaped craft that's depicted there has, 'a frustum or cone on its leading portion of its main body... the frustum is rotatable about its own axis or has the ability to rotate.'

Again, I can't post URLs or images ( :mad: ) but searching online for US10144532B2 will bring it up if anyone is interested.

More likely to be a bad butcher or mask of a photo of a 117 that has then been stretched slightly.

treadigraph 7th Feb 2022 09:56


Originally Posted by Matthew Illsley (Post 11180931)
Again, I can't post URLs or images ( :mad: ) but searching online for US10144532B2 will bring it up if anyone is interested.

Once you've reached the magic 10 posts you should be able to post images and PM people...

Interesting discussion, love to see the original photos were it possible.

dead_pan 7th Feb 2022 10:01

Matthew - I'm intrigued to know about the purpose of this research. Is this a part of Dr Clark's primary research effort?

Aurora is interesting as, although its existence has been repeatedly denied, it was explicitly referred to in an edition of the Pentagon's 'Soviet Military Power' back in the day, the publication in question being hastily withdrawn at its launch event when one of the bigwigs spotted the oversight (this story was recounted in Flight International at the time). Of course, its mention could have been some elaborate disinformation scheme.

There was also a story circulating about a mishap at Boscombe Down, I believe in the early/mid-90s, the Americans turning up in force with screens to prevent spotters prying with their long lenses.

treadigraph 7th Feb 2022 10:14

According to Ben Rich, "Aurora" was the DoD's code name for B-2 development funding... true/untrue?

Ewan Whosearmy 7th Feb 2022 10:34

LOMCEVAC was there that day and is adamant that it's all over active imaginations.

dead_pan 7th Feb 2022 10:58


Originally Posted by treadigraph (Post 11180964)
According to Ben Rich

How many conspiracy theories start with these four words?

Talking of which, I recall attending an energy conference in the US a few years back during which an esteemed professor from a prestigious US uni ended his lecture with an entirely serious and non-ironic comment that, "according to Ben Rich", Einstein had got his famous equation all wrong, that it was in fact e=mc^2.5. Cue fits of giggles from us assembled Brits.

Matthew Illsley 7th Feb 2022 12:00


Originally Posted by dead_pan (Post 11180956)
Matthew - I'm intrigued to know about the purpose of this research. Is this a part of Dr Clark's primary research effort?

Aurora is interesting as, although its existence has been repeatedly denied, it was explicitly referred to in an edition of the Pentagon's 'Soviet Military Power' back in the day, the publication in question being hastily withdrawn at its launch event when one of the bigwigs spotted the oversight (this story was recounted in Flight International at the time). Of course, its mention could have been some elaborate disinformation scheme.

There was also a story circulating about a mishap at Boscombe Down, I believe in the early/mid-90s, the Americans turning up in force with screens to prevent spotters prying with their long lenses.

Hello. I've messaged you via PPRUNE. Thanks

Beamr 7th Feb 2022 14:27

A blimp is what comes to mind. Stationary mid air, leaves vertically. Climb speed probably exaggerated, but one could look at how the Good Year blimp zoom climbs, it is surprisingly good. There was serious airship development in the UK up until early 90's when Aerospace Developments/Airship Industries failed.

Noteworthy is that in the 80's there was development of lenticular airships in the UK by Thermo Skyships which acquired AD and formed Aerospace Skyships.

Thene there are the hybrid airships that combine airplanes and airships.

I've no evidence what is in the original picture nor if it is legit, but also I've no idea what is the attitude of the diamond shape object in the grainy picture. It could by all means be eg Aereon 26 from a certain angle (it is not, but I'm trying to make a point here).

Knowing that eyewitnesses are unreliable and that the good quality original pictures are not available and that the related documents have been classified for further 50 years well until 2070's, someone knows what it is, and I believe it is terrestial. A blimp fits the general description of maneuvers, rigid airship may fit the shape on the picture and classifying fits the military design purpose.

Timelord 7th Feb 2022 15:11

I have no idea if the picture was genuine, but it wasn’t a blimp.

Davef68 7th Feb 2022 16:12


Originally Posted by Matthew Illsley (Post 11180649)
Well, I would be more than happy to hear from you if you were in some way involved and know otherwise, but on this point we have a senior former defence intelligence source who interviewed the witnesses at the time, and we're only repeating what he says they were doing. They initially told the RAF they were out walking, but who takes a camera out on a walk at 8.30pm?

In that part of Scotland at that time of the year it's not going to get dark until well after 10PM.

On the grainy picture, it's hard to say what the aircraft is - could be a Harrier, could be a Hunter or even a Phantom (Both of the latter based in Scotland at the time). I doubt it's a USMC aircraft - as others have said, these would have been spotted and logged. It could have been a BAE or AAEE aircraft. Both GR3s and the Development GR5s did operate out of West Freugh in the late 80s/early 90s and that would seem a much more likely location than Macrahannish. (For some reason everything sneaky beaky in Scotland seems to be linked to Mac, when West Freugh was a much more secret place).It's also more likely for a Saturday flight than 'regular' RAF or RN

It's probably too early, but BAE did test some 'stealth' shapes via sub-scale remote control/UAV aircraft

scotpen 7th Feb 2022 16:24


Originally Posted by KPax (Post 11180726)
I saw this picture, it was sent to RAF Pitreavie Castle where the picture was given to the Int Cell, we never saw the picture again years later I thought it was an F117 with 2 Harriers.

Ex Pitreavie Int here. We did have a dark red file on this general topic but it contained nothing that persuaded me we were having ET visitors.
Also later worked in the next office to Nick Pope and same applies.

Haraka 7th Feb 2022 17:15

As in any investigation, the provenance of any evidence submitted has to be established before furthering for any evaluated consideration.....

I don't see that here......


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